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  Posted on Aug.08.2009 @ 10:58PM EDT by chontri
What, monks, is the world? The eye and shapes, the ear and sounds,
the nose and smells, the tongue and tastes, the body and tactile objects,
the mind and mental objects - these... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CONNECTION
vertical line Posted on Oct.03.2012 @ 05:04AM EDT by Dalai Lama

Recognizing our shared humanity and our biological nature as beings whose happiness is dependent on others, we learn to open our hearts, and in so doing we gain a sense of purpose and a sense of connection with those around us.

 


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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.03.2012
08:11AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line this gift... why?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143473
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.03.2012
09:49PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "this gift... why?

"
.........

Why indeed!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143508
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.03.2012
11:49PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line It is so big, like an ocean to a raindrop. I'm a raindrop.

Cup!?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143512
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Reply from starduster
Oct.04.2012
05:16AM EDT 
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Quote: "this gift... why? "
.........

I remember when I first got here, years ago, you were not such a happy man, John.

But now you are rich from within, and that is good.

It has come to you because you were always good inside, and you have just let it surface.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143532
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
05:51AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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 I had read the words many times and try to understand it ....... happiness: is resulted from desire ...a polluted energy in action so realizing " happiness" or seeking for happiness is polluted energy in action ............Buddhism is NEVER to fill in life with happiness and happiness is just a polluted energy same as sorrow , greed , ego , love etc .

Buddhism is exploration of the cause of happiness , the desire for happiness to FREE of happiness not to seek for happiness . Buddhism is the process leading to emptiness NOT a process created for seeking happiness .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143537
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.04.2012
05:59AM EDT 
vertical line Cutting the connection.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143539
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.04.2012
07:08AM EDT 
vertical line My happiness is not dependent on others. And the only separation is the one between you and your internet connection.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143542
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Reply from starduster
Oct.04.2012
10:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

 I had read the words many times and try to understand it ....... happiness: is resulted from desire ...a polluted energy in action so realizing " happiness" or seeking for happiness is polluted energy in action ............Buddhism is NEVER to fill in life with happiness and happiness is just a polluted energy same as sorrow , greed , ego , love etc .

Buddhism is exploration of the cause of happiness , the desire for happiness to FREE of happiness not to seek for happiness . Buddhism is the process leading to emptiness NOT a process created for seeking happiness .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Happiness is the fulfilment of desire.

If you have no desires, that makes happiness pretty easy to come up with.

My only desire is to be home with the Spirit in the Void.  And when I sleep I am there, with the Spirit, and I am happy.  But then I wake up and Im back in this world again, not so happy.

Thus my sentiment that I just want to get out of this world and go home to the Spirit.

To each their own, and thats what I got.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.04.2012
11:29AM EDT 
vertical line 4 Xed?
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.04.2012
12:18PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Hello Dalai, well hello Dalai, it's so nice to have you back where you begin.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143570
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
12:24PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Starduster , you said , quoted "Happiness is the fulfilment of desire.If you have no desires, that makes happiness pretty easy to come up with.My only desire is to be home with the Spirit in the Void.  And when I sleep I am there, with the Spirit, and I am happy.  But then I wake up and Im back in this world again, not so happy.Thus my sentiment that I just want to get out of this world and go home to the Spirit.To each their own, and thats what I got." Un-quote

As long as I am still human with attachment of polluted energy , desire is always with me ...but in my current understanding of Buddhism , the more I understand all my emotions I will be less attached to it and eventually be free of it .......Buddhism is freedom of all emotions including desire to exist .....leading to emptiness .

In my current understanding , such nice feeling of "happiness" is freedom from own self .........in my current understanding of Buddhism , our selves is just like a huge bag of sand we carried all day long on our back .........by defending ourselves , our thought , ego , greed we are actually put more sand into the back ...we will be more suffer of it ...but the more we understand Buddhism , we will dlet go the sand on our back bit by bit ...and the more we decrease the sand , we will feel less suffering ...that feeling of " happiness" is actually due to less suffering on ourselves .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.04.2012
12:37PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Understanding emotions or thoughts will never bring you freedom from your own self.
How can it? Understanding only lets you cope with it. To deal with it on a different level.
Never be free from it. You mis understand polluted energy. That which keeps you from practicing meditation is polluted energy.
That which keeps you full of attachment is polluted energy.

Stop repeating yourself and learn from those here.
Stop your debate. Listen and learn for once.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143572
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2012
12:48PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Understanding emotions or thoughts will never bring you freedom from your own self.
How can it? Understanding only lets you cope with it. To deal with it on a different level.
Never be free from it. You mis understand polluted energy. That which keeps you from practicing meditation is polluted energy.
That which keeps you full of attachment is polluted energy.

Stop repeating yourself and learn from those here.
Stop your debate. Listen and learn for once.
"
.........

Dear Avisitor , understanding own emotions is part of realization process - part of buddhism . Understanding alone will never bring me anywhere but realization is . For example there are perhaps hundreds of people smoking eventhough they understand is bad for health but perhaps when they sick , they will stop smoking . buddhism is a PROCESS that involve  understanding , exploration , experiencing , experimenting , knowing ...never just understanding . I do not practicing medition is becouse I at this point of time cant find any reason for that ...or common sense of it .......meditation is one of the trillions ways to self discovery , why you insisted I follow your path . How you get here is NOT important , you are important to me becouse you are here .

Dear sir you seems demanding me to follow your way .....what keep you from debating with me ? ....Today I received an email from a well known "master" referring me to debate monk in Malaysia ........not him , I find it very funny . Dear Avisitor .........I learn each moment in my life , from you , from my koi fish , from the begger in the street even from my computer .......what makes you think I never learned ?

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.04.2012
12:54PM EDT 
vertical line Thks? No, don't explain.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.05.2012
05:16AM EDT 
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Quote: "4 Xed?"
.........

Sometimes.

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Reply from starduster
Oct.05.2012
05:30AM EDT 
vertical line Quote:

Dear Starduster , you said , quoted "Happiness is the fulfilment of desire.If you have no desires, that makes happiness pretty easy to come up with.My only desire is to be home with the Spirit in the Void.  And when I sleep I am there, with the Spirit, and I am happy.  But then I wake up and Im back in this world again, not so happy.Thus my sentiment that I just want to get out of this world and go home to the Spirit.To each their own, and thats what I got." Un-quote

As long as I am still human with attachment of polluted energy , desire is always with me ...but in my current understanding of Buddhism , the more I understand all my emotions I will be less attached to it and eventually be free of it .......Buddhism is freedom of all emotions including desire to exist .....leading to emptiness .

In my current understanding , such nice feeling of "happiness" is freedom from own self .........in my current understanding of Buddhism , our selves is just like a huge bag of sand we carried all day long on our back .........by defending ourselves , our thought , ego , greed we are actually put more sand into the back ...we will be more suffer of it ...but the more we understand Buddhism , we will dlet go the sand on our back bit by bit ...and the more we decrease the sand , we will feel less suffering ...that feeling of " happiness" is actually due to less suffering on ourselves .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: "Understanding emotions or thoughts will never bring you freedom from your own self.
How can it? Understanding only lets you cope with it. To deal with it on a different level.
Never be free from it. You mis understand polluted energy. That which keeps you from practicing meditation is polluted energy.
That which keeps you full of attachment is polluted energy.

Stop repeating yourself and learn from those here.
Stop your debate. Listen and learn for once.
"
----------------------------------

Dear Avisitor , understanding own emotions is part of realization process - part of buddhism . Understanding alone will never bring me anywhere but realization is . For example there are perhaps hundreds of people smoking eventhough they understand is bad for health but perhaps when they sick , they will stop smoking . buddhism is a PROCESS that involve  understanding , exploration , experiencing , experimenting , knowing ...never just understanding . I do not practicing medition is becouse I at this point of time cant find any reason for that ...or common sense of it .......meditation is one of the trillions ways to self discovery , why you insisted I follow your path . How you get here is NOT important , you are important to me becouse you are here .

Dear sir you seems demanding me to follow your way .....what keep you from debating with me ? ....Today I received an email from a well known "master" referring me to debate monk in Malaysia ........not him , I find it very funny . Dear Avisitor .........I learn each moment in my life , from you , from my koi fish , from the begger in the street even from my computer .......what makes you think I never learned ?

.........

.........

I like the bag of sand analogy of how we carry around too much weight of ourselves.  Self importance is at the heart of that.  Reciprocally, things are important to us only to the extent that it supports the delusion of our self importance. 

People do not quit smoking even when they are sick because smoking is not the problem.  Nicotine is not a drug.  That is why the tobacco companies can say Nicotine is not addictive.  Its a poison, the second strongest known to man. 

When someone takes Nicotine, but not a lethal dose, the body responds by producing drugs in response to both smoke and poison, to calm, to avoid panic, to increase the chance of survival.  Those are the drugs to which people become addicted, and that is why even when they are sick from the smoke and the poison they keep smoking because that is the mechanism that triggers the body to produce the drugs they need.

Thinking that things are important outside oneself is the mechanism that feeds the addiction of self importance within oneself. The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you. 

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
06:37AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.05.2012
07:06AM EDT 
vertical line Occasionalism at the point of dissonance, is no alternative to the chromatic progression of constant harmony.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143614
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Reply from starduster
Oct.05.2012
07:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.05.2012
09:18AM EDT 
vertical line A desire for consolation masquerading as freedom from desire.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143638
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
12:40PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Starduster , you said "From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.Works for me, thats all I know." un-quote .

In Buddhism , "peace" is a condition of less confusion , less on burden of having " self"....less of ego / emotions /desire , less of compassion / love .......and contentment is an emotions resulted of desire . The " happiness" which resulted or caused by desire as what we understand as in knowledge .........is always a polluted energy in action ......

In Buddhism the "less we attached ourselves" is perhaps ' the happiness" and is never same as the common " happiness" that known to human ........

thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.05.2012
01:06PM EDT 
vertical line Blah blah blah
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143657
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
08:48PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143679
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
09:03PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

In my current understanding , all being whether living or non-living - human , animal , plant , table , rock ,door , dust etc exist due to the attachment of polluted energy and always in thir own process to free this polluted energy leading to purity - the emptiness ......so each being is in their own path , their own journey of their will , their choices , their method in their own purification process that should never be compared to others...and never related to others . So dear friend is always own ways , that never is wrong or right ....good or bad thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
09:04PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

In my current understanding , all being whether living or non-living - human , animal , plant , table , rock ,door , dust etc exist due to the attachment of polluted energy and always in thir own process to free this polluted energy leading to purity - the emptiness ......so each being is in their own path , their own journey of their will , their choices , their method in their own purification process that should never be compared to others...and never related to others . So dear friend is always own ways , that never is wrong or right ....good or bad thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

When was the last time you helped someone? And how did that make you feel?
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
09:07PM EDT 
vertical line You may believe what you want to believe, for as long as you want. But beliefs are not what the Buddha taught, so they have nothing to do with Buddha.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.05.2012
09:08PM EDT 
vertical line As long as you have a "current understanding of Buddhism", you have no understanding of Buddhism.

Just DON'T KNOW.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
10:39PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear avisitor , you said Quote: "You may believe what you want to believe, for as long as you want. But beliefs are not what the Buddha taught, so they have nothing to do with Buddha. "Un-quote

I NEVER want to believe or have any faith in all my opinion .......that is why I wish to debate with you in order to challenge it and move from it into greater understanding .

Thks

CSEe
.........

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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2012
11:00PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said Quote: "As long as you have a "current understanding of Buddhism", you have no understanding of Buddhism. Just DON'T KNOW.Un-quote

Current understanding is always subject to change that is why I said current ..........if one said this is his understanding perhaps he NEVER wish to change even have desire to defend it .....dear friend I am aware I should never attached to any of my understanding but continue to challenge it .........

Yes my friend .........I no understanding of Buddhism , if I do I already wrote books about it .....Buddhism is a CONTINUE process of discovery , a continue process of realization and acceptance ........a PROCESS not a FACT , the truth is the PROCESS not the finding , not the realization ...but the whole process until emptiness ......that is why I do not find any common sense why many "master" wrote books on Buddhism .......

Share with me Dear friend , your understanding on Buddhism , As my current understanding , you do not need to pour water into my cup ....as Buddhism is a process to empty my cup NOT filling in it ...........I am in the PROCESS to empty it NEVER to filling it .........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
12:48AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear avisitor , you said Quote: "You may believe what you want to believe, for as long as you want. But beliefs are not what the Buddha taught, so they have nothing to do with Buddha. "Un-quote

I NEVER want to believe or have any faith in all my opinion .......that is why I wish to debate with you in order to challenge it and move from it into greater understanding .

Thks

CSEe
.........

"
.........

If you do not want to believe or have faith, then just stop believing and having faith. It's very simple. Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. That's silly. Just stop thinking! Then you will have no beliefs or faith, and just see the truth directly.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.06.2012
01:21AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear esoteric , you said "If you do not want to believe or have faith, then just stop believing and having faith. It's very simple. Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. That's silly. Just stop thinking! Then you will have no beliefs or faith, and just see the truth directly." Un-quote

Thats is your opinion perhaps I have different opinion ...........debate pushes me to explore to areas that I never been ..... or dare not to go ....or the self that I never discover......or the realization that never happens ..........debate is the best way for me to learn Buddhism via internat .......dear esoteric ....how can you see the truth directly ? is the truth an object ? In my opinion , you are already in the truth and you just have to realize it ..........................you as all beings living or non-living is always in a PROCESS known to me as Buddhism leading to emptiness ...emptiness is YOU except yourself ..that is PROCESS is the only truth NOT self realization ....not awakening.....but the whole process .........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
04:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said "If you do not want to believe or have faith, then just stop believing and having faith. It's very simple. Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. That's silly. Just stop thinking! Then you will have no beliefs or faith, and just see the truth directly." Un-quote

Thats is your opinion perhaps I have different opinion ...........debate pushes me to explore to areas that I never been ..... or dare not to go ....or the self that I never discover......or the realization that never happens ..........debate is the best way for me to learn Buddhism via internat .......dear esoteric ....how can you see the truth directly ? is the truth an object ? In my opinion , you are already in the truth and you just have to realize it ..........................you as all beings living or non-living is always in a PROCESS known to me as Buddhism leading to emptiness ...emptiness is YOU except yourself ..that is PROCESS is the only truth NOT self realization ....not awakening.....but the whole process .........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have a cup of tea. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143700
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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
04:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said "From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.Works for me, thats all I know." un-quote .

In Buddhism , "peace" is a condition of less confusion , less on burden of having " self"....less of ego / emotions /desire , less of compassion / love .......and contentment is an emotions resulted of desire . The " happiness" which resulted or caused by desire as what we understand as in knowledge .........is always a polluted energy in action ......

In Buddhism the "less we attached ourselves" is perhaps ' the happiness" and is never same as the common " happiness" that known to human ........

thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Esoteric says my recollection of *nothingness* is a dream fantasy to which Im attached.

Thats the most he can make of it, given his studied learning and no experience.

From my point of view, I can remember when I, the me I know as me, did not exist.

So, to let go of little self, and apprehend big Self, I just remember that *recollection*.

I dont matter, Im not important, its arguable to say I even exist.

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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
04:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

Shut up, esoteric, you dont know nothing yet.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
04:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said "From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.Works for me, thats all I know." un-quote .

In Buddhism , "peace" is a condition of less confusion , less on burden of having " self"....less of ego / emotions /desire , less of compassion / love .......and contentment is an emotions resulted of desire . The " happiness" which resulted or caused by desire as what we understand as in knowledge .........is always a polluted energy in action ......

In Buddhism the "less we attached ourselves" is perhaps ' the happiness" and is never same as the common " happiness" that known to human ........

thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Esoteric says my recollection of *nothingness* is a dream fantasy to which Im attached.

Thats the most he can make of it, given his studied learning and no experience.

From my point of view, I can remember when I, the me I know as me, did not exist.

So, to let go of little self, and apprehend big Self, I just remember that *recollection*.

I dont matter, Im not important, its arguable to say I even exist.

"
.........

Remember, remember...

Big Self has nothing to do with your memory. That's still your Little Self, messing with you.

And if you're not sure whether you really exist, try hitting yourself with a stick! :-P
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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
04:31AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said "If you do not want to believe or have faith, then just stop believing and having faith. It's very simple. Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. That's silly. Just stop thinking! Then you will have no beliefs or faith, and just see the truth directly." Un-quote

Thats is your opinion perhaps I have different opinion ...........debate pushes me to explore to areas that I never been ..... or dare not to go ....or the self that I never discover......or the realization that never happens ..........debate is the best way for me to learn Buddhism via internat .......dear esoteric ....how can you see the truth directly ? is the truth an object ? In my opinion , you are already in the truth and you just have to realize it ..........................you as all beings living or non-living is always in a PROCESS known to me as Buddhism leading to emptiness ...emptiness is YOU except yourself ..that is PROCESS is the only truth NOT self realization ....not awakening.....but the whole process .........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have a cup of tea. :-)
"
.........

"
.........

Have a cup of tea. :-)
"
.........

*Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. Thats silly* (esoteric)

You cant reinvent yourself to people who remember when you got here, esoteric.  Because what you did is exactly what you preach against.  You debated with Chontri, could not defend you existing beliefs, and adopted his instead, as best you could.

You say, *Just stop thinking*.  Chontri says, *When you go to the fridge to get a piece of fruit, just go to the fridge and get a piece of fruit.*  To you that is the same thing.  But you lack Chontris understanding, so you see it as a shutting down.  But it isnt, its just *being* which is more alive than ever.

Thats okay though.  I too often choose to *shut down*.  If I dont like what Im thinking or feeling, I just stop thinking and feeling.  Then it passes and I find myself *being* again.  Chontri is further down his path than I am.  He is just *being* all the time.

i admit it.  The only delusion I have left is the Spirit, and I am very attached to It.

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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
04:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said "From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.Works for me, thats all I know." un-quote .

In Buddhism , "peace" is a condition of less confusion , less on burden of having " self"....less of ego / emotions /desire , less of compassion / love .......and contentment is an emotions resulted of desire . The " happiness" which resulted or caused by desire as what we understand as in knowledge .........is always a polluted energy in action ......

In Buddhism the "less we attached ourselves" is perhaps ' the happiness" and is never same as the common " happiness" that known to human ........

thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Esoteric says my recollection of *nothingness* is a dream fantasy to which Im attached.

Thats the most he can make of it, given his studied learning and no experience.

From my point of view, I can remember when I, the me I know as me, did not exist.

So, to let go of little self, and apprehend big Self, I just remember that *recollection*.

I dont matter, Im not important, its arguable to say I even exist.

"
.........

Remember, remember...

Big Self has nothing to do with your memory. That's still your Little Self, messing with you.

And if you're not sure whether you really exist, try hitting yourself with a stick! :-P
"
.........

"
.........

Remember, remember...

Big Self has nothing to do with your memory. That's still your Little Self, messing with you.

And if you're not sure whether you really exist, try hitting yourself with a stick! :-P
"
.........

There you go again, esoteric.

You read a book about swimming, and now you think you should be a life-guard,

even though youve never been in the water.

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Reply from starduster
Oct.06.2012
04:48AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

In my current understanding , all being whether living or non-living - human , animal , plant , table , rock ,door , dust etc exist due to the attachment of polluted energy and always in thir own process to free this polluted energy leading to purity - the emptiness ......so each being is in their own path , their own journey of their will , their choices , their method in their own purification process that should never be compared to others...and never related to others . So dear friend is always own ways , that never is wrong or right ....good or bad thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

When was the last time you helped someone? And how did that make you feel?
"
.........

"
.........

When was the last time you helped someone? And how did that make you feel?
"
.........

I dont see you helping people, esoteric.  Thats a mask, and a masquerade.  An excuse to try to take control of others, and to interfere with their natural development.

I believe you have yourself fooled in that way, because you do not have control of yourself perhaps you compensate by trying to control others, thinking perhaps that if you can control others this may develop into an ability to control yourself. 

I may be wrong, but thats what I see.  You think you are *helping*, but you are really trying to help yourself.  So just help yourself then, hit yourself with a stick if thats what you want to do.  You remind me of the kid in class who always volunteered to be *monitor* while the teacher was away, writing down the names of misbehavers, and then couldnt figure out why he kept getting beat up during recess, since he was so *good*.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
01:32PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said "If you do not want to believe or have faith, then just stop believing and having faith. It's very simple. Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. That's silly. Just stop thinking! Then you will have no beliefs or faith, and just see the truth directly." Un-quote

Thats is your opinion perhaps I have different opinion ...........debate pushes me to explore to areas that I never been ..... or dare not to go ....or the self that I never discover......or the realization that never happens ..........debate is the best way for me to learn Buddhism via internat .......dear esoteric ....how can you see the truth directly ? is the truth an object ? In my opinion , you are already in the truth and you just have to realize it ..........................you as all beings living or non-living is always in a PROCESS known to me as Buddhism leading to emptiness ...emptiness is YOU except yourself ..that is PROCESS is the only truth NOT self realization ....not awakening.....but the whole process .........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Have a cup of tea. :-)
"
.........

"
.........

Have a cup of tea. :-)
"
.........

*Debate will only make you defend your existing beliefs, or adopt new ones instead. Thats silly* (esoteric)

You cant reinvent yourself to people who remember when you got here, esoteric.  Because what you did is exactly what you preach against.  You debated with Chontri, could not defend you existing beliefs, and adopted his instead, as best you could.

You say, *Just stop thinking*.  Chontri says, *When you go to the fridge to get a piece of fruit, just go to the fridge and get a piece of fruit.*  To you that is the same thing.  But you lack Chontris understanding, so you see it as a shutting down.  But it isnt, its just *being* which is more alive than ever.

Thats okay though.  I too often choose to *shut down*.  If I dont like what Im thinking or feeling, I just stop thinking and feeling.  Then it passes and I find myself *being* again.  Chontri is further down his path than I am.  He is just *being* all the time.

i admit it.  The only delusion I have left is the Spirit, and I am very attached to It.

"
.........

I did not say "stop feeling." Quite the contrary. But at least you have admitted that you do that, and you know what you are attached to. That's good.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
01:34PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said "From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.Works for me, thats all I know." un-quote .

In Buddhism , "peace" is a condition of less confusion , less on burden of having " self"....less of ego / emotions /desire , less of compassion / love .......and contentment is an emotions resulted of desire . The " happiness" which resulted or caused by desire as what we understand as in knowledge .........is always a polluted energy in action ......

In Buddhism the "less we attached ourselves" is perhaps ' the happiness" and is never same as the common " happiness" that known to human ........

thks

CSEe

"
.........

"
.........

Esoteric says my recollection of *nothingness* is a dream fantasy to which Im attached.

Thats the most he can make of it, given his studied learning and no experience.

From my point of view, I can remember when I, the me I know as me, did not exist.

So, to let go of little self, and apprehend big Self, I just remember that *recollection*.

I dont matter, Im not important, its arguable to say I even exist.

"
.........

Remember, remember...

Big Self has nothing to do with your memory. That's still your Little Self, messing with you.

And if you're not sure whether you really exist, try hitting yourself with a stick! :-P
"
.........

"
.........

Remember, remember...

Big Self has nothing to do with your memory. That's still your Little Self, messing with you.

And if you're not sure whether you really exist, try hitting yourself with a stick! :-P
"
.........

There you go again, esoteric.

You read a book about swimming, and now you think you should be a life-guard,

even though youve never been in the water.

"
.........

Maybe if you practice Big Self all the time, instead of relying on some memory, you will see what I mean. It has nothing to do with learning from books.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143734
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
01:36PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Starduster , you said " The more you reduce your sense of self importance, the less things in the world outside you will seem important to you." Un-quote

Well to me thats Buddhism ......thats the feeling commonly others known as " happiness" but is never resulted from desire but freedom from desire ...........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

"
.........

From that you may derive peace and contentment, which may also result in happiness, if it is peace and contentment which you desire.

Works for me, thats all I know.

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

"
.........

Except that it doesn't work for you, right?
"
.........

In my current understanding , all being whether living or non-living - human , animal , plant , table , rock ,door , dust etc exist due to the attachment of polluted energy and always in thir own process to free this polluted energy leading to purity - the emptiness ......so each being is in their own path , their own journey of their will , their choices , their method in their own purification process that should never be compared to others...and never related to others . So dear friend is always own ways , that never is wrong or right ....good or bad thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

When was the last time you helped someone? And how did that make you feel?
"
.........

"
.........

When was the last time you helped someone? And how did that make you feel?
"
.........

I dont see you helping people, esoteric.  Thats a mask, and a masquerade.  An excuse to try to take control of others, and to interfere with their natural development.

I believe you have yourself fooled in that way, because you do not have control of yourself perhaps you compensate by trying to control others, thinking perhaps that if you can control others this may develop into an ability to control yourself. 

I may be wrong, but thats what I see.  You think you are *helping*, but you are really trying to help yourself.  So just help yourself then, hit yourself with a stick if thats what you want to do.  You remind me of the kid in class who always volunteered to be *monitor* while the teacher was away, writing down the names of misbehavers, and then couldnt figure out why he kept getting beat up during recess, since he was so *good*.

"
.........

You don't see me. But you see yourself. That's good. Keep looking.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
05:55PM EDT 
vertical line Don, I have been learning, understanding, and practicing helping people since the first moment I began to post on this site. In fact, I jumped all over Chon Tri for it the moment I started reading his posts. But I learned better later. Perhaps you would call it my Prime Directive, although clearly it's not the only thing I do. The fact that you don't see it may have something to do with the fact that it is not your Prime Directive. Instead, you are here to "kill time" (as you have said), and to try to be recognized for who you think you are and what you have experienced. Okay, great! You have been recognized. But that keeps not turning out the way you want it to. Oh no! Now what?!

You still have a lot to learn about what human beings are for. So do I, but at least I know that serving my own Little Self ends is part of a Big Self purpose, and that helping each other is essential and important. I don't really care what you think about me. But I do care that you're a suffering human being like me. So, you know....I go with that, and do what I do. I can't take away your suffering. But I can point to it. Most people don't like that. Not until they realize how much they've been loved. That's when things start to really change in a most wonderful way.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
06:04PM EDT 
vertical line The neat thing is....everything and everyone is always helping everything and everyone. It's an insight that seems rare among practitioners, much more rare than the insights of Oneness and Nothingness. I suppose it can be described as Universal Helping, the realization that "being is helping." But it's not something to get hung up on, any more than Oneness and Nothingness.

Have you realized Universal Helping yet? Because it's a pretty cool thing to see.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.06.2012
06:06PM EDT 
vertical line Sometimes it makes me cry. Wedding tears. Tears of joy and wonder, caused by memory of loss and pain. Oh, the tapestry is vast. Keep looking!
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Reply from starduster
Oct.07.2012
07:26AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Don, I have been learning, understanding, and practicing helping people since the first moment I began to post on this site. In fact, I jumped all over Chon Tri for it the moment I started reading his posts. But I learned better later. Perhaps you would call it my Prime Directive, although clearly it's not the only thing I do. The fact that you don't see it may have something to do with the fact that it is not your Prime Directive. Instead, you are here to "kill time" (as you have said), and to try to be recognized for who you think you are and what you have experienced. Okay, great! You have been recognized. But that keeps not turning out the way you want it to. Oh no! Now what?!

You still have a lot to learn about what human beings are for. So do I, but at least I know that serving my own Little Self ends is part of a Big Self purpose, and that helping each other is essential and important. I don't really care what you think about me. But I do care that you're a suffering human being like me. So, you know....I go with that, and do what I do. I can't take away your suffering. But I can point to it. Most people don't like that. Not until they realize how much they've been loved. That's when things start to really change in a most wonderful way.

The neat thing is....everything and everyone is always helping everything and everyone. It's an insight that seems rare among practitioners, much more rare than the insights of Oneness and Nothingness. I suppose it can be described as Universal Helping, the realization that "being is helping." But it's not something to get hung up on, any more than Oneness and Nothingness.

Have you realized Universal Helping yet? Because it's a pretty cool thing to see.

"
.........

This is a forum, not a Zendo, as has been *held* by Alan and Chontri.  As they said some time ago, *There are no teachers here*, and indeed Chontri has said that he himself is just another poster here who comes *to say some words sometimes*.

I do come here to kill time on the night shift.  I just say what I have to say.  My only prime directive has to do with the Spirit, which seems to be unknown and irrelevant to most others here.  But thats what Im into so thats what I talk about. 

Some people talk about gardening.  Others about evil geekos. etc, etc.

I dont have anything to do with you saying what you have to say.  Ive just asked that you stay out of my knickers with your *helping* because you are not qualified.  Its like you are practicing medicine without a license. 

Or as the line goes from The Outlaw Josie Wales, *Dont piss down my back and tell me its raining.*

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
07:34AM EDT 
vertical line I'm talking marriage feast.
Always?
Always.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.07.2012
11:01AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Don, I have been learning, understanding, and practicing helping people since the first moment I began to post on this site. In fact, I jumped all over Chon Tri for it the moment I started reading his posts. But I learned better later. Perhaps you would call it my Prime Directive, although clearly it's not the only thing I do. The fact that you don't see it may have something to do with the fact that it is not your Prime Directive. Instead, you are here to "kill time" (as you have said), and to try to be recognized for who you think you are and what you have experienced. Okay, great! You have been recognized. But that keeps not turning out the way you want it to. Oh no! Now what?!

You still have a lot to learn about what human beings are for. So do I, but at least I know that serving my own Little Self ends is part of a Big Self purpose, and that helping each other is essential and important. I don't really care what you think about me. But I do care that you're a suffering human being like me. So, you know....I go with that, and do what I do. I can't take away your suffering. But I can point to it. Most people don't like that. Not until they realize how much they've been loved. That's when things start to really change in a most wonderful way.

The neat thing is....everything and everyone is always helping everything and everyone. It's an insight that seems rare among practitioners, much more rare than the insights of Oneness and Nothingness. I suppose it can be described as Universal Helping, the realization that "being is helping." But it's not something to get hung up on, any more than Oneness and Nothingness.

Have you realized Universal Helping yet? Because it's a pretty cool thing to see.

"
.........

This is a forum, not a Zendo, as has been *held* by Alan and Chontri.  As they said some time ago, *There are no teachers here*, and indeed Chontri has said that he himself is just another poster here who comes *to say some words sometimes*.

I do come here to kill time on the night shift.  I just say what I have to say.  My only prime directive has to do with the Spirit, which seems to be unknown and irrelevant to most others here.  But thats what Im into so thats what I talk about. 

Some people talk about gardening.  Others about evil geekos. etc, etc.

I dont have anything to do with you saying what you have to say.  Ive just asked that you stay out of my knickers with your *helping* because you are not qualified.  Its like you are practicing medicine without a license. 

Or as the line goes from The Outlaw Josie Wales, *Dont piss down my back and tell me its raining.*

"
.........

Apparently you didn't read the memo.
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Reply from floating_a
Oct.07.2012
11:09AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The neat thing is....everything and everyone is always helping everything and everyone. It's an insight that seems rare among practitioners, much more rare than the insights of Oneness and Nothingness. I suppose it can be described as Universal Helping, the realization that "being is helping." But it's not something to get hung up on, any more than Oneness and Nothingness.

Have you realized Universal Helping yet? Because it's a pretty cool thing to see.
"
.........

How arrogant.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143807
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
11:11AM EDT 
vertical line Yes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143808
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
11:12AM EDT 
vertical line Seconds?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143809
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.07.2012
12:07PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "The neat thing is....everything and everyone is always helping everything and everyone. It's an insight that seems rare among practitioners, much more rare than the insights of Oneness and Nothingness. I suppose it can be described as Universal Helping, the realization that "being is helping." But it's not something to get hung up on, any more than Oneness and Nothingness.

Have you realized Universal Helping yet? Because it's a pretty cool thing to see.
"
.........

How arrogant.
"
.........

No, not really. I'm just talking to my friend starduster, can you dig it?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143812
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.07.2012
01:04PM EDT 
vertical line ^Hubris.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143815
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