Perhaps my writing confused others and if that is the case I am truly sorry . When I say I wish to learn from all and in the same time I of the opinion Buddhism cant be taught ........many trying to either wanting to teach me to follow them or accused me for not wanting to learn .

Some even told me the story of a monk pouring water into a cup for a student non-stop . You see in my current understanding in Buddhism is NOT to pour water into others cup ....so the monk SHOULD not have the intention to teach but should always be awake to learn same as the student that come to him .........in Buddhism no one can be consider himself above others and have the desire or intention to teach as that is resulted from their emotions ...Buddhism is the PROCESS to understand desire , to free the desire NEVER to practice desire .........so I wish to learn from all of you by discussion / debating on each other understanding FOR MY OWN LEARNING PROCESS ...never have any intention to teach you guys or wanting you guys to teach me ...in Buddhism is all about my own will to learn ......I will learn whenever I am ready to learn , awake to aware to learn .........is all about BEING AWAKE not BEING teacher .

I sincerely wish to learn by NOT being teach ......lets share and my challenging my taught , questioning you understanding , I will learn .....thats Buddhism . Is to learn from all .................is being AWAKE each moment in life to learn tro understand own self NEVER others  and thats is the PRACTICE in Buddhism to me .

So I hope is will clear any mis-understanding . Lets discuss shall we .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Chop any wood lately? "
.........

I do not understand you .......

thks

CSEe

Quote: "Just by focusing on the basics. No need for any extra added entertainment or experience to become aware and appreciative of  "this" presence of being.

But I do have to go out and cut some more firewood.

I just looked out the window and a small chickadee bird took a sip of water from a rain collection unit I have out on the deck. So as I said it, thought it, it happened in being, not in my being, but in my being around, presently.
"
.........

What is the basics......sir . as for me is by being awake to aware , aware to realize and realize to accept ...that is the basic . All happening to any being even to own self is a source to explore & learn ....thats is the basic by being awake to aware that .............one should always awake to aware all happening as it happens .

Thks

CSEe

Hi WOodsman , you said "just looking out in the woods at the leaf shadows on the ground, where I noticed one leaf that looked that it was more alive than the rest, fluttering more than the thousands of others, for there was no breeze, and went to touch the shadow on my finger, then looked up to see which leaf it was on the tree, between us and the sun

found " un-quote

In my current understanding regards to your story ....this process of noticing is by being awake . In Buddhism we awake to aware is NOT to find reason for others , or explaination for others BUT for our own exploration on ourselves .......the action to find the reason why this particular leaf is moving is out of a desire , emotions to seek the answer should never be any reason for the leaf but for ownself .

In Buddhism we just need to understand ourself from all the source we in contact with regardless their nature ............

by knowledge if we focusing on movement regards to the leaf , we can make comparison and knows which leaf is more " alive" than others but In Buddhism regards to human , is IMPOSSIBLE to find " this particular person" who is more alive than others .

Even Dalai Lama with all his degree being a " Doctrorate of Buddhism Studies" is the same as any serial killer regards to Buddhism . All being is UNDERGOING a process to release it's polluted energy ........and we cant compare and is IMPOSSIBLE to measure whether Dalai Lama understand / accepted his emotions more than the serial understand / accepted his own emotions . Therefor in my current understanding NO ONE including Dalai Lama should have any reason to teach others Buddhism except to learn it from others / from own self just like the serial killer .

Thks

CSEe

Dear Esoteric , you said and I quote "Understanding and conceptual thinking are different things. You do a lot of thinking, and a lot of writing your thinking. It sounds like you want to understand, not "think" understanding. So...stop and notice your thinking. Be aware of your thinking. Pay attention to your thinking. Look at your thinking, even as you are typing it. And then ask yourself...

If all of this thinking is ME, then WHO is looking, noticing, watching, being aware of it??? Un-quotre .

Who can you know I " do alot" of thinking ? ....you are right I have desire to understand BUT not only by thinking .........self realization is NOT resulted by thinking but a collection of awareness , thinking can be just a factor NEVER the cause . .......my thinking is just an information to be challenged , to be investigated by me .......Is all about my own learning process and I NEVER pay attention on who is looking , noticing of my thinking ......is always me to challenge my own thinking and change it , move into greater realization NEVER should I be bother on how others think of me...........is me , in my own learning process.........

Thks

CSEe  

Quote: "Leaves fall to ground from trees after growing dependently on external sources of energy for expressions individually unique as everything is interdependently linked to the source. This is just a thought, leaf.

In my current understanding , perhaps we believe everything is interdependently or connected is becouse of our KNOWLEDGE .....our knowledge give us the information that the leaf is connected to the brances and brances is connected to the tree .....that is our KNOWLEDGE .

Buddhism to me is BEYOND knowledge .........In Buddhism of my current understanding NOTHING is connected to me NOR " my' family , "my" belonging even "my' body is NEVER connected to me ...and I never own them . All are individual beings in their own purification process that never connected to others .........the leaf or the portion of it is in its own purification process NEVER connected to the tree .....the leaf is NEVER belong to the tree .

In Buddhism all being is in concert undergoing each own purification process ......and no one can can others process . We are just like a group of thing flowing in the river towards the sea........in the same river , but in different speed , different method even some in different direction ,.....but all will end up in same destination - THE EMPTINESS .

Thks

CSEe 



                                            ()



"
.........

In knowledge I am a 45 years old chinese Malaysia male married with one daughter , in  Buddhism ...is NEVER " who am I " is always " What I am"......

In my understanding of Buddhism , I am emptiness with polluted energy that attached to me . This polluted energy is all my desire , my emotions , compassion  / love , my will that cause my existance , my joy and suffering .................

Thks

CSEe

Good question.

Therein lies the rub....

Dear Esoteric , you daid "Same, both knowledge. No understanding. Look again. Who are you?un-quote

i had explained what am I to you ...yes is always is knowledge for others becouse you are not me ,,,,,,and thats my realization not yours that cant be taught .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "You got littlewood. Weigh your bells?"
.........

I tried to weigh my bells.  I placed the bathroom scale up on the counter by the sink and plopped my bells on it. 

The needle didnt move a hair.  I guess maybe I should try a postal scale, especially if I want to weigh my littlewood too.

Quote: "Buddha knows nothing about Buddhism."
.........

Never even heard of it.

Dear Esoteric , you said " So, who are you without explaining anything? Un-quote .
I am not quite sure what you mean but I try to explain based on what I understand .

In my current understanding of Buddhism is NOT "who am I" but is always "what I am"......I am emptiness with attachment of polluted energy known as " myself" .....the desire to explain is part of the polluted energy , same as other desire , emotions etc ...........

Thks

CSEe 

Quote: "Buddha knows nothing about Buddhism."
.........

Perhaps I can easily agree on this as in my current understanding " Buddha" is NOT a person call Siddharta ...but Buddha is the original energy of purity before pollutant -THE EMPTINESS .

Buddhism is the PROCESS of all being regardless living or non-living to free it polluted energy that caused it existance ..........to be back to emptiness - the Buddha .

In emptiness there is purity WITHOUT any awareness , nature or materials .....

Thks

CSEe 

Quote: "Perhaps Buddha is beyond an agreement with your doctrinal statements. Alleluia!"
.........

In my current understanding ...emptiness ( Buddha) is the end of all condition , nothing is beyond emptiness ...............a final state of all being .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Anything else?"
.........

Always is Yes ......until no desire to say .

thks

CSEe

Dear Avisitor , you said " If you understand that emptiness is the final state then why haven't you tried to achieve that state of mind??
Why do you refuse to meditate?? Un-quote

How to acheive emptiness in mind ? by meditate ? sure? ....I assume you meditate alot sorry in advance , you still here and have desire to express your mind ...........one can meditate all his life but still have desire to further sit down and meditate (unless he fall asleep ).

Dear Avisitor , i can write for days explaining the reason why I do not practice meditation by sitting down  following method set by others .....and infact I had explained to you part of it atlest one time perhaps you never notice it .

In my current opinion , one can explore to discover himself by trillions of method .......by sitting under a tree TRYING to free his mind , or sitting on a toilet bowl or even during a lousy sex...haha ......

is all up to you my friend ..but in my current opinion one should be awake before trying to explore ....if he continue to have faith in his beliefs , his knowledge or accepted who he is .....perhaps he will always found the one he wish to find not the one he found ...........so one should be free from believing who he is , free from all his knowledge , free from all his faith and noticing others source ..........

If one have faith he is greater than a dirt , lesser than siddharta ..........he will always be the one he wish to be never be the one he realized .

People meditate becouse Siddharta meditate , becouse Dalai Lama meditate and even I receive an email days ago from a "master" that he "just follow the method taught by Buddha"........why ? Why choose to live in siddharta life not own life ? ....Buddhism to me currently is living the life awake in each moment ..............always awake to aware ...........and perhaps that is a form of meditation ........self searching is not limited for few hours a day but each moment in life ........by being awake ....................

Thks

CSEe

Dear esoteric , you said "You are like a hungry man who refuses bread because it is not the color he imagined it should be, and who creates arguments about why he will not eat it. But he is still hungry. "Oh, feed me! Feed me!"  LOL" un-quote

Yes in knowledge , by human culture or by human tradition , you NEED to feed me becouse you KNOW I am hungry ...........but in Buddhism how do you know that ? In Buddhism you should explore your own emotion of believing I am hungry ....the cause of your emotions .......and whats the factor that I have provided to you makes you have such emotions ......in Buddhism is NEVER about offering bread to me but to explore why you need to offer it to me ....in Buddhism is the PROCESS to discover your own emotions by learning from yourself or others ..........

You said " People do not only meditate because Siddhartha meditated. There are many reasons that people meditate. Good health, good feeling, restful mind, because their friends do it and they think it makes them cool...many many reasons." Un-quote

YES agreed , there are many practice such as yoga etc.....but many believe meditation is major part of Buddhism ...many even call them a " Buddhism practice".................

You said " But, if you are truly seeking understanding, then you will deny nothing to get it. So, if you refuse to sit zazen, you are merely refusing understanding for some reason. Probably because sitting zazen is too difficult for you, so you pretend that nothing can be gained from it. Shame on you! That is not the path to understanding!" Un-quote

Dear Friend , you just told me there are many reason why people meditate...and one of them AS YOU SAID makes them cool..........and now you want me to meditate for better understanding of Buddhism .....can I stand and watch the birds while I meditate ? Or while cooking? or while driving? .......or while sitting on a toilet bowl .

Thks

CSEe 

Those thing as you descriped " knowledge , discovery , exploration etc is part of the PROCESS known to me as Buddhism...the whole PROCESS leading to emptiness to me is Buddhism ...........yes nothing is associate with Buddhism as Buddhism is a process by each being ........

Thks

CSEe

Many seek *nothingness* as an ending, completion, a *final state of all being*.

Not so easy.  In arriving at *nothingness* one has not reached an ending,

but come full circle to the *beginningless beginning*.

There is no *final state of all being*, just a new beginning for you.

First you break it all down to nothing, or rather seeking nothing you attain *nothingness*.

Then you have to rebuild from nothing, or *nothingness*.

For years after attaining awakening, The Buddha did not speak of it.  Then he began to teach, even though knowing there was nothing to teach and nothing to learn.  So why bother ?  I think it is because that is simply what he wanted to do.  So whats wrong with that ?

Dear esoteric , you said " No, I don't "want" you to sit zazen. Either you do it, or you don't. That's all. Maybe you'll get better understanding. Maybe you won't. I'm not here for your betterment of understanding. You are. I'm just pointing out how silly it is to come looking to "understand Buddhism" and then refuse to do something that has been practiced in Buddhism since Siddhartha was called the Buddha." Un-quote

So perhaps you find it common sense to follow Mr Siddharta practice in learning Buddhism ? If you drive a Ferrari and I walk ....we cant reach the same destination ? Or If you draive a car and I run , should I run in same speed as you in order to reach same destination ? ........In Buddhism is all about own way , own journey never to live in others life but awaken to own life ...........

You said " You can do zazen all day long, in whatever you do, as long as you can practice having a sitting mind. But just sitting is just sitting. Other things are other things. So, refusing to just sit, and say you shouldn't have to sit because all those other things are also meditation...well, that's still a refusal. You want understanding, that's a good place to start. Why do you keep refusing to just sit?" un-quote

Dear friend ,I refusing to sit becouse I live in my life and understand my position and the condition I am in ...so if someone wanting me to sit , I must find the common sense in it BECOUSE I live in my life never in their life ........you want me to sit , fine that is you in your learning process but I must have reason to do that ........Buddhism is NEVER involve in others life , inflence others or change others ......Buddhism is about learning from others to understand own self .

I learn from your practice for sitting and meditate and I current have my reason so If one day I found reason to sit and meditate ...I will never regretted it as I am aware of my action now ...........but you can always share with me by debating on what have you learn by meditation .........

Thks

CSEe

Dear Esoteric , thanks for the information on the benifit of your method of meditation ...I can easily agree with you . In my current understanding , Buddhism is a whole process of releasing my polluted energy that in myself of all my emotions , my will , my desire to be pure and empty ..................the benifit of the meditation is only a tiny bit of the whole process........and never about good health , "good" mind ........as in Buddhism there is no " good" or "bad".....mind .

By living each moment AWAKE to aware what we are , the cause of our existance , the end of us is to me currently more acceptable to me ............

Thks

CSEe

This is only one world, plane of existence, of a virtually unlimited number of them, and mankind only one species in this world, not counting a virtually unlimited number of creatures in other planes as well.  And neither is there just one answer to your question.

Chontri in his last visit here brought up the point that sitting and meditation are not the same thing because sitting is done with no point in mind while meditation is done along or towards a particular thing, like a question which is meditated upon.  I agree with that entirely, and do both daily, as I have for many years.

I have my own answers to your question, which have come to me in meditation.  Through these meditations I have come to experience the Spirits infinite love, and eternal pain. 

You have embraced sitting, but rejected meditation, and that is your valid choice.  Sitting is good for the heart and soul, as you have pointed out, as well as that that is enough for you.  But answers come through meditation, not just sitting.

Quote: "Being is conditionless. unconditionally guaranteed.


When you see into your being, you will realise the no-thingness of ALL beings and you will know yourself as that which cannot be divided. This knowing, is in truth, an unknowing.
"
.........

If I failed to endorse this last time,

please allow me to do so now.

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "I hope to discuss and always debate with all.......

Thks

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

You can debate with any of us, If you can join any discussion.

When I sit I just sit, total rest, not even thinking. Breathing only because it is necessary, which is autonomic anyway.

Sometimes I fall asleep sitting, and may have dreams or visions, but then I am no longer sitting.  These dreams or visions may provide insights, may be pleasant or unpleasant, and sometimes are prophetic.

When I meditate then I am actively meditating, anticipating, maybe on a particular question, or maybe just waiting to see what comes to me.

I sit many times during a day, for short periods of time, when I have some time to take for it.  Meditation is generally something I do when I go to bed, because then I have hours to devote to it.  Then typically I go home to the Spirit in the Void, but may experience other adventures as well.

Sitting is just sitting, but meditation is very personal, unique to the individual, and should not be influenced or tampered with by anyone else. 

Chontri told me of his views on *helping* once,.  He said, *If someone asks me to help them to carry their stuff, I will help them to carry their stuff.  But if they do not want my help, then I will let them carry their own stuff.*

I do not dislike you, esoteric, what I actually say about people is, *I like people, its humanity I cant stand.*  And that is because if we all got together we have the means to solve our mutual problems of hunger, pestilence, disease, etc, but we dont because we compete instead.  Still, I have never met an uninteresting person.  Including you.  But frankly, the involuntary *helping* that you insist on giving people is like being pillaried.  You dont have that right, which means you got that wrong.

Maybe you fall asleep sitting because you're not paying attention. esoteric

---------------------------------------------------------

Thats what you dont get.

It not about *doing* anything, paying attention, or otherwise.

Its just *being*. 

Being who you are, where you are, here and now.

*Being-doing*, is like a state of being verb vs an action verb.