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  Shih-tou Hsi-chien (700-790) was a very well known Chinese Ch'an master.
As a young monk, he was one of the disciples of the Sixth Patriarch Hui-neng.
After Hui-neng passed away, Shih-tou continued his pilgrimage...
He paid a vist... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: LAZINESS
vertical line Posted on Oct.09.2012 @ 04:01PM EDT by QuantumZen
Laziness is my biggest problem. It stops me from progressing in any part of my life. I can't do anything with it. I try. It also stops me from practicing zen. I want to wake up early everyday and do 30min zazen, have some tea and go to my lectures. But most of the time I skip first lecture because I am imprisoned in my bed. I know this is a problem I create myself. But that "myself" is too strong for some reasoned. I am attached to my bed and time-wasting routine. Help.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email QuantumZen
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
04:53PM EDT 
vertical line Copypasta
Yourself togetha

If you can be bothered.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.09.2012
05:03PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Why would you be special?
All the people, who can't bothered to get the heck out of bed to do what they need to live a real life, sleep and stay in bed. Great.
Nothing you can do but be yourself. Find it with in yourself to do what you want or do what you think you can. Whatever .. who cares about you? Only you can make the effort that needs to be done. Have with it or get off the crapper.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
05:22PM EDT 
vertical line Crap, crap, crap, crap, crapper, save a little crap for him.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
05:26PM EDT 
vertical line Don't strain at stool.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.09.2012
07:03PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line What's up with all these fecal references?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
07:07PM EDT 
vertical line Good question. Avisitor has the answer.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.09.2012
07:09PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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You are "waking up".!!!! By aware it in fact you had wakes up but still do not reach that level of realization to move into greater understanding ............in Buddhism is all about YOU , your will will makes you get up , your knowledge will makes up get up , your determination will makes you get up and your realization will makes up always changing .................

By asking others for help is just a factor or it can even can be an accuses for not getting up ..............

I had problems too from a nice sleep but what I do is ....I open my eyes , look around for a few second and aware of what I do and my bed will never seems comfortable anymore ..............

In Buddhism there is NO practice that you have to do or had to practice .......realizing you is the practice , awake to aware in each moment of your life is the practice so if you force yourself to do something " not exciting" compare to your " nice sleep"........ofcouse anyone will choose to sleep .......

You NEED to awake to aware all your action including " sitting zazen"........if you never aware it , understand it , accepted it and realize it ...you just practice becouse monk told you do so.......it will be a force practice .......and this force practice can never beat a nice sleep...............YOU MUST BE AWAKE to AWARE all actions by yourself NOT by listening to your "teacher"....as they NEVER you and never should be you ...you are always alone .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
07:14PM EDT 
vertical line HEAR YE1

Laziness motivated by fear of change.
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.09.2012
07:16PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line It about team work. What is the nature of [your] team. The laziness excuse is unreal, if anything. Amend with your team if you don't feel you're at optimal capacity.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.09.2012
07:32PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line I am very thankful for your detailed response.

Eric From said, that westerners just don't seem to enjoy work they do, because they think in a discrete way. This means, that instead of enjoying your part in creating something (or raising yourself to better level of awareness of any kind) you always tend to check your progress. And at the mere moment of your practice, there is none. Progress is not a discrete concept. For example it takes some determination to learn playing an instrument, learning to play is boring in a sense, playing what you've learnt is enjoyable.

I realize all of this in my mind, but have some problems putting everything to practice. It is contradictory, because my worst enemy is me...
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.09.2012
07:35PM EDT 
vertical line So your answer is: help yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 143877
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.09.2012
07:41PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line Quote: "So your answer is: help yourself."
.........I will thank you tomorrow morning.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.09.2012
08:03PM EDT 
vertical line There is no such cause as laziness. It's an empty catch-all word meaning "the state of doing something other than what you or someone else wants you to do." In other words, it's a descriptive based on desire. And that's fine, but it doesn't answer the question "why"?

So, why are you not doing what you or someone else wants you to do? Are you fatigued? In pain? Mentally blocked from moving? I spent several years with an illness that kept me from being able to do what I and others wanted me to do, for all of those reasons. And often, people said I was "just being lazy." No, I wasn't lazy. I was tired, or in pain, or could not make my body do what I told it to do. This was all behavior and sensation associated with stress, anxiety, and depression.

So, first redefine your laziness for what it is...the neuro-physical sensations (i.e. emotions) that prevent you from doing what you want to do. Then, work on identifying why you have those sensations or emotions, and finding a way to change them.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.10.2012
03:17AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Good question. Avisitor has the answer. "
.........
I hardly ever hear anyone say that they were so lazy that they didn't make it to the crapper.
When the urge to go .. tells you that you must go .. there is no laziness.
You go or you crap in your pants. Most people prefer to not crap in their clothes.
Do you see? If you want something then make it a must for yourself.
If you can't do that then you have no hope of finding anything but the remote for the TV.

If you want to practice then you practice.
Find the urge within yourself.
Either that or get off the crapper.
Stop complaining to others about how hard it is to do something.
You're not an eight year old trying to do his homework.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.10.2012
06:32AM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line This morning I woke up too early (by my previous standards), jumped out of my bed and was prepared for 20min of zazen. But then I heard the noice from outside (cars speeding, lots of noice in building sites nearby and so on). How do I practice with all this noice? I know that when you are very advanced you meditate in buses and walking down the busy street. What about beginners?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.10.2012
06:54AM EDT 
vertical line There's your practice.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.10.2012
01:44PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line The chipper is right.
Whether beginner or not, you start from where you are.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.12.2012
07:00AM EDT 
vertical line Lay a liddle 0 phwoar me.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.13.2012
09:57PM EDT 
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Quote: "This morning I woke up too early (by my previous standards), jumped out of my bed and was prepared for 20min of zazen. But then I heard the noice from outside (cars speeding, lots of noice in building sites nearby and so on). How do I practice with all this noice? I know that when you are very advanced you meditate in buses and walking down the busy street. What about beginners?"
.........

Ear plugs.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.13.2012
11:50PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "How do I practice with all this noice?"
.........

Ear plugs.

"
.........

Ignorance.
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Reply from Hollow
Oct.14.2012
12:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How do I practice with all this noice?"
.........


Ear plugs.

"
.........

Ignorance.
"
.........

Seclusion.
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.14.2012
02:23AM EDT 
vertical line I think you should eat more jalapeno.. put more jalapeno in your food. You will be surprise how effective it is..
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.14.2012
10:47AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "How do I practice with all this noice?"
.........


Ear plugs.

"
.........

Ignorance.
"
.........

Seclusion.
"
.........

Once enlightened through this method ... will one always require ear plugs to be enlightened?? Or Ignorance?? Or Seclusion?? ... hahaha
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.14.2012
04:16PM EDT 
vertical line I meant that ear plugs are ignorance (i.e. IGNORE-ance).

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.14.2012
04:22PM EDT 
vertical line Same thing as closing your eyes. How can you be awake with your eyes and ears covered?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.14.2012
06:57PM EDT 
vertical line No problem, that know how, transcends the difference between perceiver and perception.
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Reply from coedabgf
Oct.17.2012
07:11PM EDT 
Email coedabgf
vertical line lack of concentration
because having a lot of desire.

coeda.
son of the LIVING TRUTH (THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE).
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Reply from LeonBasin
Oct.17.2012
07:47PM EDT 
Email LeonBasin
vertical line I'm with you! But what I have been doing is, starting with small increments. Perhaps, instead of meditating 30 min, you can meditate for 3 and build up that way. If you can't even do that, why not meditate in your bed? Just lay there and practice you breath or count numbers.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.17.2012
08:16PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I'm with you! But what I have been doing is, starting with small increments. Perhaps, instead of meditating 30 min, you can meditate for 3 and build up that way. If you can't even do that, why not meditate in your bed? Just lay there and practice you breath or count numbers. "
.........

Yep. Start where you are, and keep going straight.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.18.2012
08:34AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I'm with you! But what I have been doing is, starting with small increments. Perhaps, instead of meditating 30 min, you can meditate for 3 and build up that way. If you can't even do that, why not meditate in your bed? Just lay there and practice you breath or count numbers. "
.........

While small steps seem to be fine and some progress is made ....
It is not like the journey of a thousand mile .. starting with one step.
This journey needs leaps and bounds and effort beyond that of a minute here and a minute there.

You are born and you will die.
Continue with your slow start and death will find you before you reach the gate
Then, where are you and where will your practice be then??

No, make a leap and jump into it.
Make the effort and sit. Practice for days if you must.
But, remember that it only takes an instant to change .... hahaha
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.18.2012
09:22AM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line I finally have begun to try practicing every morning. The problem I encountered is that I am very sleepy (i.e. Not at all awake ;)) in early mornings. And meditating is more of trying not to close my eyes rather than contemplating emptiness. Shall I do zazen later in the morning?
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Reply from football
Oct.18.2012
09:24AM EDT 
Email football
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Quote: "Quote: "I'm with you! But what I have been doing is, starting with small increments. Perhaps, instead of meditating 30 min, you can meditate for 3 and build up that way. If you can't even do that, why not meditate in your bed? Just lay there and practice you breath or count numbers. "
.........

While small steps seem to be fine and some progress is made ....
It is not like the journey of a thousand mile .. starting with one step.
This journey needs leaps and bounds and effort beyond that of a minute here and a minute there.

You are born and you will die.
Continue with your slow start and death will find you before you reach the gate
Then, where are you and where will your practice be then??

No, make a leap and jump into it.
Make the effort and sit. Practice for days if you must.
But, remember that it only takes an instant to change .... hahaha
"
.........

Wise child words.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.18.2012
09:27AM EDT 
vertical line I got some tree wisdom. You want?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.18.2012
09:29AM EDT 
vertical line Here's one: Waking up is hard to do.

Here's two: Be lazy, except in being lazy.
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Reply from football
Oct.18.2012
09:35AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line thank you.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.18.2012
03:50PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I finally have begun to try practicing every morning. The problem I encountered is that I am very sleepy (i.e. Not at all awake ;)) in early mornings. And meditating is more of trying not to close my eyes rather than contemplating emptiness. Shall I do zazen later in the morning?"
.........

I have been told the practice is your awareness.
Whatever you experience is part of the practice.
Just make the effort to stay on breathe.
Wandering or sleepiness is all part of the practice.

Muscle builders must exercise with difficult loads or the exercise doesn't build muscle.
In turn, your practice must go through trials to provide you with the muscle you need.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.18.2012
06:56PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I finally have begun to try practicing every morning. The problem I encountered is that I am very sleepy (i.e. Not at all awake ;)) in early mornings. And meditating is more of trying not to close my eyes rather than contemplating emptiness. Shall I do zazen later in the morning?"
.........

I have been told the practice is your awareness.
Whatever you experience is part of the practice.
Just make the effort to stay on breathe.
Wandering or sleepiness is all part of the practice.

Muscle builders must exercise with difficult loads or the exercise doesn't build muscle.
In turn, your practice must go through trials to provide you with the muscle you need.
"
.........

Don't believe anything you are told.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.18.2012
07:45PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I finally have begun to try practicing every morning. The problem I encountered is that I am very sleepy (i.e. Not at all awake ;)) in early mornings. And meditating is more of trying not to close my eyes rather than contemplating emptiness. Shall I do zazen later in the morning?"
.........

I have been told the practice is your awareness.
Whatever you experience is part of the practice.
Just make the effort to stay on breathe.
Wandering or sleepiness is all part of the practice.

Muscle builders must exercise with difficult loads or the exercise doesn't build muscle.
In turn, your practice must go through trials to provide you with the muscle you need.
"
.........

Don't believe anything you are told.
"
.........

Thanks, I will start with what you said.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.19.2012
06:16AM EDT 
vertical line G r r r eat the art of zenguide and how to be idle.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.19.2012
11:19AM EDT 
vertical line In the legend of Tea Time and Lazy Shennong, a leaf from a tea bush floats down into his cup of boiled water sitting right in front of him.

..............................

Proper Moments For Drinking Tea

When one's heart and hands are idle.
Tired after reading poetry.
When one's thoughts are disturbed.
Listening to songs and ditties.
When a song is completed.
Shut up at one's home on a holiday.
Playing the ch'in and looking over paintings.
Engaged in conversation deep at night.
Before a bright window and a clean desk.
With charming friends and slender concubines.
Returning from a visit with friends.
When the day is clear and the breeze is mild.
On a day of light showers.
In a painted boat near a small wooden bridge.
In a forest with tall baboons.
In a pavillion overloooking lotus flowers on a summer day.
Having lighted incense in a small studio.
After a feast is over and the guests are gone.
When children are at school.
In a quiet secluded temple.
Near famous springs and quaint rocks.

~ Hsu Ts'eshu
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