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  Ching-yuan Wei-hsin, a Chinese Ch'an master, once said this:
Thirty years ago, when having not studied Ch'an,
this monk saw mountain was mountains and water was water.
Later, when following the good teacher's guide, this monk... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: YOU TELL ME
vertical line Posted on Oct.15.2012 @ 08:17AM EDT by IZIZIZ

What can you tell me about the enlightenement, or awakening  experience if it has happened to you?

Please tell.


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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.15.2012
08:19AM EDT 
vertical line This thread is done with you and me.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144109
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.15.2012
09:06AM EDT 
vertical line Monkey trap. Watch out, here they come!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144116
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Reply from justin
Oct.15.2012
09:55AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line no idea ?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144127
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.15.2012
10:30AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Enlightenment is like the other side of the moon??
It is there. You just don't see it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144130
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Reply from football
Oct.15.2012
10:31AM EDT 
Email football
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Ten years ago when I first started Zen I had an experience of Buddha nature.for a few hours then it passed.(you know level 6 at the oxherding)

Now Im at level one.

6-7 years passed to understand what Zen is.Then only i understand Zazen.But 3 years ago when i was preparing for my first Zazen excitedly I became heavily ill.a kind of mind illness.i lay down at the bed for three years.im still ill.but going better everyday.and now i can wander.

i dont know why i tell this.

i just want to continue where i left...anyway that was my only experience i can talk on Zen.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144131
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.15.2012
04:56PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line The word 'mutation' floats around in some of my books. That being so and having that kind of experience is in some ways correct. Lets say you've gone through a 'mutation', well it's all about your response to this experience, unique to everyone who has dealt with it. And find out what works for you. For me, a gradual adapting was inevitable. But found, in the actual experience, a need to train this new mind-full-ness. Be it so, I am 'lighter' and more acutely aware then I was.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144135
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.15.2012
05:50PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Feeless Feeling
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144137
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.15.2012
10:42PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Ten years ago when I first started Zen I had an experience of Buddha nature.for a few hours then it passed.(you know level 6 at the oxherding)

Now Im at level one.

6-7 years passed to understand what Zen is.Then only i understand Zazen.But 3 years ago when i was preparing for my first Zazen excitedly I became heavily ill.a kind of mind illness.i lay down at the bed for three years.im still ill.but going better everyday.and now i can wander.

i dont know why i tell this.

i just want to continue where i left...anyway that was my only experience i can talk on Zen.

"
.........

I'm glad things are going better every day for you. Don't get discouraged. Keep going! Wake up and help this world.

We're all at level one. Zen mind, beginner's mind. :-)
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Reply from starduster
Oct.15.2012
10:57PM EDT 
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Read books by Eugene Herrigel.

He will tell you all about it.

And since hes already dead,

he doesnt have to take any crap about it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144149
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.15.2012
11:05PM EDT 
vertical line Why would anyone need to read books so that someone can tell you their ideas, instead of continuing the already-succeeding practice of just looking for yourself?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144150
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.15.2012
11:16PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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To my current understanding , awakening is a realization of ownself , that what is me , why I am here and is end of me .......the will to search , the will to 'wake up" from living , the awareness to explore ownself , the awareness to understand ownself is "awakening" to my current understanding ......................

'Enlightenment" is a condition of NO choices , freedom from any understanding , freedom from any knowledge ...freedom from any emotions , freedom from self .

Buddhism is a PROCESS of all being regardless living or non-living .Is a process all being release its polluted energy to be pure , to be empty . For human , the polluted energy is all desire , will , emotions etc that cause it existance and I will continue to exist as long as I have will to exist ............and Buddhism is a PROCESS that involves understanding , experiencing , knowing , exploring OWN desire , own emotions by being AWAKE by own realization leading to acceptance of ownself and emptiness .....

Awakening is a process that one realize what is he , accepted what he is and free him from himself .........towards a condition of freedom from himself ,,,,,towards "enlightenment"...a state of no self .........

This PROCESS in my current understanding is BUDDHISM .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.15.2012
11:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

To my current understanding , awakening is a realization of ownself , that what is me , why I am here and is end of me .......the will to search , the will to 'wake up" from living , the awareness to explore ownself , the awareness to understand ownself is "awakening" to my current understanding ......................

'Enlightenment" is a condition of NO choices , freedom from any understanding , freedom from any knowledge ...freedom from any emotions , freedom from self .

Buddhism is a PROCESS of all being regardless living or non-living .Is a process all being release its polluted energy to be pure , to be empty . For human , the polluted energy is all desire , will , emotions etc that cause it existance and I will continue to exist as long as I have will to exist ............and Buddhism is a PROCESS that involves understanding , experiencing , knowing , exploring OWN desire , own emotions by being AWAKE by own realization leading to acceptance of ownself and emptiness .....

Awakening is a process that one realize what is he , accepted what he is and free him from himself .........towards a condition of freedom from himself ,,,,,towards "enlightenment"...a state of no self .........

This PROCESS in my current understanding is BUDDHISM .

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

Now say that without using any words.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.15.2012
11:44PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

To my current understanding , awakening is a realization of ownself , that what is me , why I am here and is end of me .......the will to search , the will to 'wake up" from living , the awareness to explore ownself , the awareness to understand ownself is "awakening" to my current understanding ......................

'Enlightenment" is a condition of NO choices , freedom from any understanding , freedom from any knowledge ...freedom from any emotions , freedom from self .

Buddhism is a PROCESS of all being regardless living or non-living .Is a process all being release its polluted energy to be pure , to be empty . For human , the polluted energy is all desire , will , emotions etc that cause it existance and I will continue to exist as long as I have will to exist ............and Buddhism is a PROCESS that involves understanding , experiencing , knowing , exploring OWN desire , own emotions by being AWAKE by own realization leading to acceptance of ownself and emptiness .....

Awakening is a process that one realize what is he , accepted what he is and free him from himself .........towards a condition of freedom from himself ,,,,,towards "enlightenment"...a state of no self .........

This PROCESS in my current understanding is BUDDHISM .

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

Now say that without using any words.

"
.........

Now say that without using any words.

Still I am here ...........

Thks

CSEe
"
.........

"
.........
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.16.2012
12:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

To my current understanding , awakening is a realization of ownself , that what is me , why I am here and is end of me .......the will to search , the will to 'wake up" from living , the awareness to explore ownself , the awareness to understand ownself is "awakening" to my current understanding ......................

'Enlightenment" is a condition of NO choices , freedom from any understanding , freedom from any knowledge ...freedom from any emotions , freedom from self .

Buddhism is a PROCESS of all being regardless living or non-living .Is a process all being release its polluted energy to be pure , to be empty . For human , the polluted energy is all desire , will , emotions etc that cause it existance and I will continue to exist as long as I have will to exist ............and Buddhism is a PROCESS that involves understanding , experiencing , knowing , exploring OWN desire , own emotions by being AWAKE by own realization leading to acceptance of ownself and emptiness .....

Awakening is a process that one realize what is he , accepted what he is and free him from himself .........towards a condition of freedom from himself ,,,,,towards "enlightenment"...a state of no self .........

This PROCESS in my current understanding is BUDDHISM .

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

Now say that without using any words.

"
.........

Now say that without using any words.

Still I am here ...........

Thks

CSEe
"
.........

"
.........
"
.........

:-)
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.16.2012
12:36AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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i was asked to explain in 6 words in others website ......and I thought is un-fair but there is some one asking me to explain without any word..........this is weird for me .......and ridiculous ...................

we are in internat and without writing , reading what others write what else can we do here ...........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.16.2012
12:41AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

i was asked to explain in 6 words in others website ......and I thought is un-fair but there is some one asking me to explain without any word..........this is weird for me .......and ridiculous ...................

we are in internat and without writing , reading what others write what else can we do here ...........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

:-)
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Reply from starduster
Oct.16.2012
04:45AM EDT 
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Quote: "Why would anyone need to read books so that someone can tell you their ideas, instead of continuing the already-succeeding practice of just looking for yourself? "
.........

I read Herrigel 35 years ago, when I was reading everything I could about everything I could.  His were the only books I read on Buddhism, and they made no sense to me at the time.

After awakening I reread them and then they did make sense.  They helped a lot.

He hasnt expounded upon his own ideas, just recounted his experiences, before and after awakening.

I thought you were the *learned one* having studied Zen and Buddhism, so I am glad to see you advancing personal experience ahead of that.

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Reply from justin
Oct.16.2012
05:25AM EDT 
Email justin
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Diamond sutra chapter six

How do I know this? Because this person must have discarded all arbitrary notions of the existence of a personal self, of other people, or of a universal self. Otherwise their minds would still grasp after such relative conceptions. Furthermore, these people must have already discarded all arbitrary notions of the non-existence of a personal self, other people, or a universal self. Otherwise, their minds would still be grasping at such notions. Therefore anyone who seeks total Enlightenment should discard not only all conceptions of their own selfhood, of other selves, or of a universal self, but they should also discard all notions of the non-existence of such concepts."

"When the Buddha explains these things using such concepts and ideas, people should remember the unreality of all such concepts and ideas. They should recall that in teaching spiritual truths the Buddha always uses these concepts and ideas in the way that a raft is used to cross a river. Once the river has been crossed over, the raft is of no more use, and should be discarded. These arbitrary concepts and ideas about spiritual things need to be explained to us as we seek to attain Enlightenment. However, ultimately these arbitrary conceptions can be discarded. Think Subhuti, isn't it even more obvious that we should also give up our conceptions of non-existent things?"

Description: spacer 

Chapter 7

Then Buddha asked Subhuti, "What do you think, Subhuti, has the Buddha arrived at the highest, most fulfilled, most awakened and enlightened mind? Does the Buddha teach any teaching?"

Subhuti replied, "As far as I have understood the lord Buddha's teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind. Nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Buddha teaches. Why? Because the teachings that the Buddha has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent things and therefore cannot be described. The truth in them is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is, nor is it not. What does this mean? What this means is that Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature."

Chapter 8

Buddha then asked, "What do you think, Subhuti, does one who has entered the stream which flows to Enlightenment, say 'I have entered the stream'?"

"No, Buddha", Subhuti replied. "A true disciple entering the stream would not think of themselves as a separate person that could be entering anything. Only that disciple who does not differentiate themselves from others, who has no regard for name, shape, sound, odor, taste, touch or for any quality can truly be called a disciple who has entered the stream."

Buddha continued, "Does a disciple who is subject to only one more rebirth say to himself, 'I am entitled to the honors and rewards of a Once-to-be-reborn.'?"

"No, Lord. 'Once-to-be-reborn' is only a name. There is no passing away, or coming into, existence. Only one who realizes this can really be called a disciple."

"Subhuti, does a venerable One who will never more be reborn as a mortal say to himself, 'I am entitled to the honor and rewards of a Non-returner.'?"

"No, Perfectly Enlightened One. A 'Non-returner' is merely a name. There is actually no one returning and no one not-returning."

"Tell me, Subhuti. Does a Buddha say to himself, 'I have obtained Perfect Enlightenment.'?"

"No, lord. There is no such thing as Perfect Enlightenment to obtain. If a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha were to say to himself, 'I am enlightened' he would be admitting there is an individual person, a separate self and personality, and would therefore not be a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha."

Subhuti then said, "Most Honored One! You have said that I, Subhuti, excel amongst thy disciples in knowing the bliss of Enlightenment, in being perfectly content in seclusion, and in being free from all passions. Yet I do not say to myself that I am so, for if I ever thought of myself as such then it would not be true that I escaped ego delusion. I know that in truth there is no Subhuti and therefore Subhuti abides nowhere, that he neither knows nor does he not know bliss, and that he is neither free from nor enslaved by his passions."

 

Chapter 22.

Subhuti again asked, "Blessed lord, when you attained complete Enlightenment, did you feel in your mind that nothing had been acquired?"

The Buddha replied:

"That is it exactly, Subhuti. When I attained total Enlightenment, I did not feel, as the mind feels, any arbitrary conception of spiritual truth, not even the slightest. Even the words 'total Enlightenment' are merely words, they are used merely as a figure of speech."

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Reply from justin
Oct.16.2012
05:27AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line It all boils down to this:


"No, lord. There is no such thing as Perfect Enlightenment to obtain. If a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha were to say to himself, 'I am enlightened' he would be admitting there is an individual person, a separate self and personality, and would therefore not be a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha."
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Reply from justin
Oct.16.2012
05:35AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line so when u feel you are enlightened ask your self ' who is it that is enlightened?'

or my favorite ' which of my faces do i think  is the enlightened one?'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144165
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Reply from football
Oct.16.2012
05:35AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Quote: "

Read books by Eugene Herrigel.

He will tell you all about it.

And since hes already dead,

he doesnt have to take any crap about it.

"
.........

"
.........

I think I have accomplished reading.But Learning process is to continue..

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144166
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Reply from football
Oct.16.2012
05:41AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Ten years ago when I first started Zen I had an experience of Buddha nature.for a few hours then it passed.(you know level 6 at the oxherding)

Now Im at level one.

6-7 years passed to understand what Zen is.Then only i understand Zazen.But 3 years ago when i was preparing for my first Zazen excitedly I became heavily ill.a kind of mind illness.i lay down at the bed for three years.im still ill.but going better everyday.and now i can wander.

i dont know why i tell this.

i just want to continue where i left...anyway that was my only experience i can talk on Zen.

"
.........

I'm glad things are going better every day for you. Don't get discouraged. Keep going! Wake up and help this world.

We're all at level one. Zen mind, beginner's mind. :-)
"
.........

"
.........

I'm glad things are going better every day for you. Don't get discouraged. Keep going! Wake up and help this world.

We're all at level one. Zen mind, beginner's mind. :-)
"
.........

I havent been thought in that way!..you are right..this shows my learning process is contunuing..

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Reply from justin
Oct.16.2012
05:43AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "

i was asked to explain in 6 words in others website ......and I thought is un-fair but there is some one asking me to explain without any word..........this is weird for me .......and ridiculous ...................

we are in internat and without writing , reading what others write what else can we do here ...........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

hahaha and now you are learning, progressing  :)

cool
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Reply from justin
Oct.16.2012
05:48AM EDT 
Email justin
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someone asking me to explain without any word…………………… we are in internet and without writing , reading what others write what else can we do here


you could always just put a sandal on your head and walk out of ghe room.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.16.2012
09:28AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Why would anyone need to read books so that someone can tell you their ideas, instead of continuing the already-succeeding practice of just looking for yourself? "
.........

....I thought you were the *learned one* having studied Zen and Buddhism, so I am glad to see you advancing personal experience ahead of that.

"
.........

I'm not "advancing personal experience" ahead of anything.
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Reply from Chryseis
Oct.17.2012
08:10AM EDT 
vertical line Dreaming of the Masters Series Vol. 2
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Reply from coedabgf
Oct.17.2012
06:47PM EDT 
Email coedabgf
vertical line when you see who you are. the origin of your life within you.

coeda.
son of the LIVING TRUTH (THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE).
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Reply from football
Oct.18.2012
03:46AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

You are speaking "meatly" coedabgf,

still way to go..

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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.19.2012
03:50PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Why would anyone need to read books so that someone can tell you their ideas, instead of continuing the already-succeeding practice of just looking for yourself? "
.........

Satori without understanding is like having a really good tool but no use for it.
It sits wasting away. Please continue your education ... hahaha
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.19.2012
09:03PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Why would anyone need to read books so that someone can tell you their ideas, instead of continuing the already-succeeding practice of just looking for yourself? "
.........

Satori without understanding is like having a really good tool but no use for it.
It sits wasting away. Please continue your education ... hahaha
"
.........

No understanding.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.20.2012
12:12AM EDT 
vertical line

Subhuti again asked, "Blessed lord, when you attained complete Enlightenment, did you feel in your mind that nothing had been acquired?"

The Buddha replied:

"That is it exactly, Subhuti. When I attained total Enlightenment, I did not feel, as the mind feels, any arbitrary conception of spiritual truth, not even the slightest. Even the words 'total Enlightenment' are merely words, they are used merely as a figure of speech."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats why I prefer the term *awakened*, because nothing is gained, the difference is in what falls away, like the tapestry of a dreamscape upon waking up.  Nothing gained, nothing lost, just a returning to where you already were, or are, or whatever.

Nothing to learn, nothing to teach, nothing right, nothing wrong,

just Is.  Things as It is.

Some say Nothingness, some say Isness, same thing really.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
12:16AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Subhuti again asked, "Blessed lord, when you attained complete Enlightenment, did you feel in your mind that nothing had been acquired?"

The Buddha replied:

"That is it exactly, Subhuti. When I attained total Enlightenment, I did not feel, as the mind feels, any arbitrary conception of spiritual truth, not even the slightest. Even the words 'total Enlightenment' are merely words, they are used merely as a figure of speech."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats why I prefer the term *awakened*, because nothing is gained, the difference is in what falls away, like the tapestry of a dreamscape upon waking up.  Nothing gained, nothing lost, just a returning to where you already were, or are, or whatever.

Nothing to learn, nothing to teach, nothing right, nothing wrong,

just Is.  Things as It is.

Some say Nothingness, some say Isness, same thing really.

"
.........

Why?
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Reply from justin
Oct.20.2012
01:54AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line The point is not all these amazing ideas of spiritual growth of atainment. The point us who has attained ? how can I talk of any attainment without a attainee ? There is no attainment because there is no self. (to talk of) .
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
04:08AM EDT 
vertical line If you are enlightened you no longer have the need to read books ..looking around like a monkey for the truth.
And you don't need to quote and quote other people as if you are always backing up your contentions.

If you are enlightened you can not be insulted especially by words said against you.. you know that words are empty.. you ego is gone.. nothing can touch  you.. words are just empty.. an slap on your face by a hand is painful.. but words.. nada...lol
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
04:11AM EDT 
vertical line If you are enlightened you don't even need to follow the eightfold path...
the four noble truths you will even forget.
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
04:14AM EDT 
vertical line If you are not yet enlightened you must follow the eightfold path.. the four noble truths you keep them in mind.. those are your crutches while you are waiting to be enlightened.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "If you are not yet enlightened you must follow the eightfold path.. the four noble truths you keep them in mind.. those are your crutches while you are waiting to be enlightened. "
.........

So you will hobble along forever, waiting and waiting for something?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
11:23AM EDT 
vertical line Oh boy.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144544
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Reply from justin
Oct.21.2012
03:55AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "If you are enlightened you don't even need to follow the eightfold path...
the four noble truths you will even forget.
"
.........

show me this ?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.21.2012
07:46AM EDT 
vertical line The seeing through which, is the same seeing through which is giving birth to the one who is born clothed in the most brilliant of divine lights.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144670
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