I am reading the Platform Sutra now..

www.dailyzen.com/zen/zen_reading1210.asp

In Buddhism there is only OWN sake never others ........

thks

CSEe

Hi Esoteric , you said " Like a man stuck looking in a foggy mirror, not seeing all the work to be done around him. If you want to know "what are you" and release your polluted energy, you could start by helping people. Good for you, good for them. It's okay. We don't mind your polluted energy. " Un-quote .

I am happy you are now focusing on discussion , thanks .

In my current understanding  of Buddhism .....there is NOTHING I could do for others EXCEPT myself even I donate my heart for them ....or give them all my money . Buddhism is a PROCESS for ownself never on others .

All the help I given to others is actually to avoid my regrets or even to fulfill my desire .....is all be a part of my own learning lesson . So esoteric show me an example what I can do for others ?

Thks

CSEe 

Dear esoteric , you said "Forget yourself."........un-quote .

How ? by intention ? by wish ? by desire? Is very easy to say that but howv can one just forget desire , emotion .......by another desire ?

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "You forget yourself by realising who you really are. No one can do that for you. Buddhism cannot do that for you. No amount of intellectual debate, discussion and/or belief in polluted energy will do that for you. "
.........

Sorry my friend in my current common sense I will remember more of myself by realising "WHO" I am.......not forget it . To "forget" myself is a PROCESS known to me as Buddhism so in Buddhism I am of the opinion that I should realise " WHAT" I am not "WHO" am I ...........

Buddhism is a NATURAL process of all being and ...is me in the process not by choice or wish ................

Yes is true , Buddhism is all about ownself in own journey of own will in own world that NEVER involved others .....

Thks

CSEe 

Yes but sorry in advance Buddhism is about YOU jump into the water by your choice , your will and the experience you gain is part of your learning process never to influence others jump into the same water as you .....and you have to continueosly explore others water ...............

so in Buddhism is never to teach or to influence others to be you but to learn from all and be free...............

Why you have to copy what Mr Siddharta action ? He was in his journey so should any being....why have to live in other life ?....

dear friend SORRY if I am being rude here , I just hope we share understanding and learn from each other .....my way of learning in internat is by debating for my own learning process never to teach you or trying to influence you to agree with me ......I prefer dis-agreement because I could learn more from others ............

Thks CSEe
.........

Quote: "Yes, you do indeed sound sorrier than a thirsty dog. Your WHAT WHO, which is the same no-thing is caught up in wrong thinking."
.........

Is there 'right' and "Wrong' in Buddhism ? Show me , lets debate on this but please use more simple words as i am a Chinese .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Buddhism is not NATURAL. Nothing to be sorry about. "
.........

From the way it was being practice with so-so many traditions........yes i can easily agree with you but from my current understanding is the ONLY truth and NATURAL ...lets debate on this .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "You're Chinese, I'm non-Buddhism. Read up on it. "
.........

please explain further as I do not understand with the "&apos" sign .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "It has to be all that imagined polluted energy of yours. What else is there, for you?"
.........

In my current understanding of Buddhiam myself is the polluted energy , not imagined , not a fact but existed of my own will ........nothing is there for me except the dirt which attached to me now ...known to me as myself .

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Congratulations, Buddhism is the source of your belief in the idea of polluted energy. "
.........

Thanks for your wishes my friend ........yes that true but atleast I am living in my life accepting my polluted self ...............dont you agree ? In Buddhism perhaps that is known to me as awakening .....self realization .............

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "I don't accept your premise. However, all good wishes and the best of luck with the polluted energy/self thing. "
.........

thanks my friend ...........

CSEe

Dear Avisitor , you said " You don't seem to understand that Buddhism is about getting yourself to swim.If you don't get wet then you are only on the side lines. You will never know what real Buddhism means." Un-quote

Yes , perhaps IF you read my hundreds of writing on internat here or others site , I had always said Buddhism is all about ownself ......in Buddhism is all about learning NEVER teaching so is always my will to learn from you is NEVER your intention to teach me.....so sorry to say that we be focusing on discussing the issue for own learning process not to interfere into each others journey or trying to influence others into our journey ...............so what is "real Buddhism" means my friend , why dont we share it ....   

Dear Avisitor , you Said "You just give excuses. It is your path and not mine. Teachers throughout history have helped one another and taught the way of Buddhism. You think you are so much smarter than the rest of us that you can debate with real masters?? The fiction you have created is one so strong that you will lose your chance to find the truth of your nature." Un-quote

I NEVER in any of my writings claim I am right or others view are wrong ........so what makes you have such idea on me ? And I had explained perhaps hundreds of time the reason I wish to debate with teachers is FOR MY OWN LEARNING LESSON .......why cant you see that my friend ?

Dear Avisitor , you said "I'm sorry. You have been given the opportunity to become awakened.You turn it down by thinking that you know more than Buddha himself.
Well, I congratulate you on your life lesson. Never to want to learn but to believe only in yourself.Good bye and good luck .... hahaha" Un-quote

I was "given opportunity to be awakened" ? By who? When? How ? Can awakening be given to someone or receive from others ?...........Dear Avisitor perhaps I was never the guy you imagine , please dont judge a book from its cover ........I really hope you stay and debate with me.........you are always a great source of learning for me .

Thks

CSEe

Thanks ..............tea makes me sleepy , perhaps coffee please ...coffee makes me AWAKE ....ha..ha....

Thks

CSEe

Quote: "Quote: "Yes , perhaps IF you read my hundreds of writing on internat here or others site , I had always said Buddhism is all about ownself ......in Buddhism is all about learning NEVER teaching so is always my will to learn from you is NEVER your intention to teach me.....so sorry to say that we be focusing on discussing the issue for own learning process not to interfere into each others journey or trying to influence others into our journey ...............so what is "real Buddhism" means my friend , why dont we share it ....  

And, you never understand the truth. Who taught you to speak and write and do math?? Did you learn these things by yourself? Or did you have teachers. Like your parents for speech. And school for writing and math. You just want to deny the truth and hold onto your own beliefs.

Dear Avisitor , What is the truth in your understanding ? Yes we all have teacher in our life for our livelihood , skills , knowledge etc BUT Buddhism is BEYOND all these culture .........Buddhism is your own realization of yourself , acceptance of yourself and purity .....so how can you teach others to know their ownself ? Do you know your self more than others know themselves ?  How to deny ' the truth" if I cant find " the truth" in my common sense ? How to deny something which I dont realize it ? ...To me the only truth and the only NATURAL process is THE PROCESS leading to emptiness , freedom from all emotions or attachment on knowledge .... 


 NEVER in any of my writings claim I am right or others view are wrong ........so what makes you have such idea on me ? And I had explained perhaps hundreds of time the reason I wish to debate with teachers is FOR MY OWN LEARNING LESSON .......why cant you see that my friend ?

You always do. Whether you say it out right or not. It is implied in your words.

Dear Avisitor , the only " prove" or reason for your accusation is resulted from your emotion , sorry if I hurt your feeling

I was "given opportunity to be awakened" ? By who? When? How ? Can awakening be given to someone or receive from others ?...........Dear Avisitor perhaps I was never the guy you imagine , please dont judge a book from its cover ........I really hope you stay and debate with me.........you are always a great source of learning for me .

You were given the opportunity by your mother who gave birth to you. As a human, you have the opportunity to awaken. Lower animals do not. How can awakening be given or received? By opening ones eyes and taking what is in front of them. Which apparently you refuse to do. There is nothing to debate. The truth is not up for debate.

You were given the opportunity by your mother who gave birth to you. As a human, you have the opportunity to awaken. Lower animals do not. How can awakening be given or received? By opening ones eyes and taking what is in front of them. Which apparently you refuse to do. There is nothing to debate. The truth is not up for debate.

Dear Avisitor , "my mother" is only in my culture but in Buddhism I am always alone and no one is connected to me or owned by me ...not even my family or "my" body .......so there was NEVER opportunity GIVEN by any beings BUT only by ownself ...BY being awake to aware each moment in life is opportunity , in Buddhism in moment is OPPORTUNITY  regardless any condition .

In my current understanding of Buddhism , I am same and equal as any human , ANIMAL , plant , micro-organism even any non-living .......please debate with me on this ......

Thks CSEe

Dear Avisitor , you said 'You believe what you want. That is the path you have chosen.
" un-quote

Dear Avisitor , Is not what I want to believe , is my current common sense ....I hope you could understand . and I never choose any path but Is my CURRENT process of learning .....I never attached or have faith in any path including my understanding .

Dear Avisitor , you said " There are others who have tried to point you in the right direction.You refuse to listen. And in the end, all they can do is turn away from you.
I'm sorry but that is all I can do too. " un-quote

Dear Avisitor , sorry my friend , why they have intention to teach me ? I said I wish to learn from all but I never request to be teach by any of them ....I will learn anyway ......perhaps they trurn away because they never acheive their goal but indeed I had learned from them .....

Dear Avisitor , you said " You have the tools to work this problem out and find the solution.You have been pointed in the right direction.
The rest is up to you.
" un-quote

Dear Avisitor , what makes you think I had problems ? In my current understanding ,in life regards to knowledge YES human do have problems , they have problems to fulfill their desire , emotions , expectation , needs etc but in Buddhism "problems" is never exist .......and what makes you have so much faith "the direction" you pointed is the only truth ? ....and whats makes you teach others Buddhism ? Please debate with me .........

Sorry if I am rude here but sincerely I have no such intention .

ThksCSEe