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  One day when Fa-yen Wen-i (885-958), one of the well known Chinese Ch'an masters,
has ascended his seat. From the assembly, a monk came out and asked:
-What is one drop of water from the fount of Tsao-ch'i?
Fa-yen repied:
-It's... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SELF CONSIOUSNESS
vertical line Posted on Oct.17.2012 @ 06:59AM EDT by starduster

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.17.2012
07:04AM EDT 
vertical line THER IS ONLY ONE [oops] thing that will arouse an animal more than pleasure, and that is pain.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144222
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Reply from Chryseis
Oct.17.2012
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line THE LONI US MONK
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144224
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Reply from coedabgf
Oct.17.2012
06:57PM EDT 
Email coedabgf
vertical line as a living being, see your life, the source/origin of your life, not your imagination or world.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144282
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.17.2012
07:29PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Like I say, Things-In-Themselves work of art. Stay with it and you live the art.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144285
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.17.2012
07:55PM EDT 
vertical line The artist is present.

Art reveals nature.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144287
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.18.2012
12:00AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!

"
.........

A character stuck.

Why is it always "ME, ME, ME" with you?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144305
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Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.18.2012
12:57AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Perhaps is quite same as my current understanding of Buddhism ...........myself is a polluted  energy in display and Buddhism is a PROCESS transforming it to purity / emptiness ......perhaps emptiness is the original source of energy before pollted .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144314
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.18.2012
01:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Perhaps is quite same as my current understanding of Buddhism ...........myself is a polluted  energy in display and Buddhism is a PROCESS transforming it to purity / emptiness ......perhaps emptiness is the original source of energy before pollted .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

No energy, no pollution.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144315
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.18.2012
01:55AM EDT 
vertical line Self conciousness is nothing but egoistic.. your are ego centered..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144319
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Reply from starduster
Oct.18.2012
05:54AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!

"
.........

A character stuck.

Why is it always "ME, ME, ME" with you?
"
.........

"
.........

I dont hate anyone or anything.  Its unusual for me to actually dislike someone, but in your case I will have to keep trying to understand why that is so.

Why me, me me ?  Because I dont like you, you, you, esoteric.  The feeling of disgust that I have toward you is palpably visceral.  You turn my stomach, almost enough to put me off my food.

I think it is because you dont just express an opinion or point of view.  You seem to want to tell other people what they must think too.  You cant resist trying to correct other people.  I have found that people who try to control others are those who have the least control of themselves, and that they try to control others in an effort to gain more control of themselves.  Compensatory behavior. 

I'm reminded of the lyric, *You cant even run your own life, I will be damned if you will run mine.*  What you have related here of your personal history does not inspire confidence.  And as far as I can tell, the only thing you have mastered that I can see is an ability to stop the internal dialogue, which is really only a starting point.  Elementary.

Nonetheless, with you, I am trying to keep in mind the lyrics from the Rush song, Limelight, which I recently heard on the radio:

*Forget about the alienation,

get on with the fascination,

the real relation,

the underlying theme.*

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144323
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.18.2012
06:13AM EDT 
vertical line THE ONLY ONE thing to arouse an animal more than pleasure is pain.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144329
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.18.2012
10:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!

"
.........

A character stuck.

Why is it always "ME, ME, ME" with you?
"
.........

"
.........

I dont hate anyone or anything.  Its unusual for me to actually dislike someone, but in your case I will have to keep trying to understand why that is so.

Why me, me me ?  Because I dont like you, you, you, esoteric.  The feeling of disgust that I have toward you is palpably visceral.  You turn my stomach, almost enough to put me off my food.

I think it is because you dont just express an opinion or point of view.  You seem to want to tell other people what they must think too.  You cant resist trying to correct other people.  I have found that people who try to control others are those who have the least control of themselves, and that they try to control others in an effort to gain more control of themselves.  Compensatory behavior. 

I'm reminded of the lyric, *You cant even run your own life, I will be damned if you will run mine.*  What you have related here of your personal history does not inspire confidence.  And as far as I can tell, the only thing you have mastered that I can see is an ability to stop the internal dialogue, which is really only a starting point.  Elementary.

Nonetheless, with you, I am trying to keep in mind the lyrics from the Rush song, Limelight, which I recently heard on the radio:

*Forget about the alienation,

get on with the fascination,

the real relation,

the underlying theme.*

"
.........

Who is the master of your feelings, opinions, thinking, and point of view?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144386
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.18.2012
10:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "THE ONLY ONE thing to arouse an animal more than pleasure is pain. "
.........

Some people can only wake up when they get hit with a big stick. Really stubborn ones have to be hit many, many times.
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.19.2012
12:58AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "THE ONLY ONE thing to arouse an animal more than pleasure is pain. "
.........

Some people can only wake up when they get hit with a big stick. Really stubborn ones have to be hit many, many times.
"
.........

I think that is really true.. they always kick back very hard...lol
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.19.2012
06:07AM EDT 
vertical line I think your violent work is undone here. Let the people sleep. And leave the animals alone.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144439
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.19.2012
03:36PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!

"
.........

A character stuck.

Why is it always "ME, ME, ME" with you?
"
.........

"
.........

I dont hate anyone or anything.  Its unusual for me to actually dislike someone, but in your case I will have to keep trying to understand why that is so.

Why me, me me ?  Because I dont like you, you, you, esoteric.  The feeling of disgust that I have toward you is palpably visceral.  You turn my stomach, almost enough to put me off my food.

I think it is because you dont just express an opinion or point of view.  You seem to want to tell other people what they must think too.  You cant resist trying to correct other people.  I have found that people who try to control others are those who have the least control of themselves, and that they try to control others in an effort to gain more control of themselves.  Compensatory behavior. 

I'm reminded of the lyric, *You cant even run your own life, I will be damned if you will run mine.*  What you have related here of your personal history does not inspire confidence.  And as far as I can tell, the only thing you have mastered that I can see is an ability to stop the internal dialogue, which is really only a starting point.  Elementary.

Nonetheless, with you, I am trying to keep in mind the lyrics from the Rush song, Limelight, which I recently heard on the radio:

*Forget about the alienation,

get on with the fascination,

the real relation,

the underlying theme.*

"
.........
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144470
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.19.2012
08:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

There just is: Things as It is.

Its the only view that squares with both religion and science,

as Einstein put it, *Nothing exists except the energy that everything is made of.*

Reality is made of molecules, which are made of atoms, which are constantly degrading into other kinds of atoms, and forming new molecules, in a system of constant change.  Atoms dont die, they just continually change into other kinds of atoms.  A constant shifting of energy.  The universe is never the same place two seconds in a row.

Whether you view that oneness of everything as a *conscious self* or a current happenstance of evolutionary atomic science, It just is whatever It is being. 

At the present, I would say It must have self-consciousness or you could not be conscious of yourself.

We are all the same One from different points of view, like different facets of the same crystal, difusing the same light in different ways.

But if you know you are just a character in a play, a puppet in a puppet show, then easier to appreciate yourself, and your Self, and enjoy the show !!

"
.........

A character stuck.

Why is it always "ME, ME, ME" with you?
"
.........

"
.........

I dont hate anyone or anything.  Its unusual for me to actually dislike someone, but in your case I will have to keep trying to understand why that is so.

Why me, me me ?  Because I dont like you, you, you, esoteric.  The feeling of disgust that I have toward you is palpably visceral.  You turn my stomach, almost enough to put me off my food.

I think it is because you dont just express an opinion or point of view.  You seem to want to tell other people what they must think too.  You cant resist trying to correct other people.  I have found that people who try to control others are those who have the least control of themselves, and that they try to control others in an effort to gain more control of themselves.  Compensatory behavior. 

I'm reminded of the lyric, *You cant even run your own life, I will be damned if you will run mine.*  What you have related here of your personal history does not inspire confidence.  And as far as I can tell, the only thing you have mastered that I can see is an ability to stop the internal dialogue, which is really only a starting point.  Elementary.

Nonetheless, with you, I am trying to keep in mind the lyrics from the Rush song, Limelight, which I recently heard on the radio:

*Forget about the alienation,

get on with the fascination,

the real relation,

the underlying theme.*

"
.........
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
"
.........

I have no realization. So, no bitter taste. If you taste something bitter, then you should wash your own tongue!
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Reply from starduster
Oct.20.2012
12:37AM EDT 
vertical line

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.

_________________________________________________________

I will try to remember that.  Good idea. I remember a suggestion in a psychology book that if you dont like someone then think of them as a favorite relative.  So I will think of esoteric as the pet parrot of the family, just repeating things he has heard.

A friend of mine, from way back in elementary school, is also very big on *paying attention* and likes to tell others what to do, and think.  I still consider him a friend although I havent seen him since I kicked him out of my house in 05.  His other friends are gone too.  His last two wives kicked him out.  He hasnt worked for years, lives off the family money his mom gives him. 

Still he still thinks hes the authority on everything.  Talked to him a couple of years ago, and he wanted to move back in with me again.  I said no thanks, we dont do well together living under the same roof.  We are fine with some distance, but last year when I was back home I didnt even try to look him up. 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
07:08AM EDT 
vertical line The conversation went this way:

-"Why did you beat the dog?"
-"Because I've had enough. He never does as he is told, he needed to be taught a lesson, that was his wake-up call."
-"So you beat him to death?"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144518
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line I confiscated the brute's weapon for evidence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144521
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.

_________________________________________________________

I will try to remember that.  Good idea. I remember a suggestion in a psychology book that if you dont like someone then think of them as a favorite relative.  So I will think of esoteric as the pet parrot of the family, just repeating things he has heard.

A friend of mine, from way back in elementary school, is also very big on *paying attention* and likes to tell others what to do, and think.  I still consider him a friend although I havent seen him since I kicked him out of my house in 05.  His other friends are gone too.  His last two wives kicked him out.  He hasnt worked for years, lives off the family money his mom gives him. 

Still he still thinks hes the authority on everything.  Talked to him a couple of years ago, and he wanted to move back in with me again.  I said no thanks, we dont do well together living under the same roof.  We are fine with some distance, but last year when I was back home I didnt even try to look him up. 

"
.........

Repeating things you have heard. *SQUAWK!*
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The conversation went this way:

-"Why did you beat the dog?"
-"Because I've had enough. He never does as he is told, he needed to be taught a lesson, that was his wake-up call."
-"So you beat him to death?"
"
.........

That's how your conversation went.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144547
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
11:26AM EDT 
vertical line Your SQUAWK is reminiscent of the time you said you can't forget yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144548
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
02:26PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Your SQUAWK is reminiscent of the time you said you can't forget yourself. "
.........

I am reminded of...

Oh, never mind.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144589
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Reply from starduster
Oct.21.2012
05:54AM EDT 
vertical line

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.21.2012
09:28AM EDT 
vertical line You all seem to enjoy, nay thrive, on the damage.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144672
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.21.2012
11:42AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

"
.........

Yes, teacher.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144686
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.21.2012
01:37PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.21.2012
06:58PM EDT 
vertical line Your mouth is fine, open or shut. It's your mind we have to worry about.
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Reply from starduster
Oct.22.2012
04:43AM EDT 
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Quote: "You all seem to enjoy, nay thrive, on the damage. "
.........

That could be said to be true. 

Lets say one is trapped in an empty barrel, and then the barrel is smashed to bits, and one finds oneself in an infinity and eternity of emptyness, a Void per se.

The only real difference is that one can then see that the emptiness was not contained within the barrel, but is universal.  One is not trapped in it, one is it because nothing else exists.

Would such an experience be revolutionary ?  How would it affect your daily life ?

In the movie Annie Hall, little Alvie is taken to the shrink by his mother because he won't do his homework.  He says this is because he read that the universe is expanding and will come to an end eventually.  So, he says, *Whats the point* of doing homework ?

This is a microcosmic example of how the truth sets you free.  You dont have to worry about your homework anymore.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144774
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Reply from starduster
Oct.22.2012
04:57AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

Your mouth is fine, open or shut. It's your mind we have to worry about.

--------------------------------

Ive changed my mind about esoteric.  My big brother irritates a lot of people with his attitude.  But we are as we are, and there is not much we can do about it.  I dont blame him for being who he is, I just choose not to have anything to do with him.

One day when we were kids, Fat Pete grabbed me and said, *Call for your brother to save you.*  I said, *NO !  I wont do it !*  He said, *I dont want to hurt you, I like you, its your brother I dont like.  He picks on both of us, but you cant beat him, and I cant catch him, so get him over here and I will beat him up for both of us.*  Then I said, *Help !  Help !*

About the time I got to be 15, and was finally the same size as my brother, I called him out into the back yard to fight.  I won.  He ran away waving his arms in the air like a little girl after I nearly killed him.  And he has not presumed to get physical with me since, after many many years of bullying, and nearly killing more times that either of us can remember.

Hes a lot like you, esoteric.  He reads up on things, memorizes a few facts, and then he thinks hes an expert and should set the standard for everyone else.

Well, in Zen, if not Buddhism or any other religion, there really is no standard.  There only is what you experience, what you understand from it, and hopefully a happier and more comfortable life because of it.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144775
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.22.2012
05:34AM EDT 
vertical line This is an example of the flaws, the hair-balls in the gate, so to speak, that represent the numerous theoretical challenges to set the Big Bang idea free. Unless, of course, you want to know about multiple universes and what was happening before the Big Bang!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144778
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.22.2012
06:49AM EDT 
vertical line You Really Got Me Now
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144784
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.22.2012
09:04AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

Your mouth is fine, open or shut. It's your mind we have to worry about.

--------------------------------

Ive changed my mind about esoteric.  My big brother irritates a lot of people with his attitude.  But we are as we are, and there is not much we can do about it.  I dont blame him for being who he is, I just choose not to have anything to do with him.

One day when we were kids, Fat Pete grabbed me and said, *Call for your brother to save you.*  I said, *NO !  I wont do it !*  He said, *I dont want to hurt you, I like you, its your brother I dont like.  He picks on both of us, but you cant beat him, and I cant catch him, so get him over here and I will beat him up for both of us.*  Then I said, *Help !  Help !*

About the time I got to be 15, and was finally the same size as my brother, I called him out into the back yard to fight.  I won.  He ran away waving his arms in the air like a little girl after I nearly killed him.  And he has not presumed to get physical with me since, after many many years of bullying, and nearly killing more times that either of us can remember.

Hes a lot like you, esoteric.  He reads up on things, memorizes a few facts, and then he thinks hes an expert and should set the standard for everyone else.

Well, in Zen, if not Buddhism or any other religion, there really is no standard.  There only is what you experience, what you understand from it, and hopefully a happier and more comfortable life because of it.

"
.........

What you see is not me. I don't fit on your screen.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144792
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Reply from starduster
Oct.22.2012
09:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

I'm sorry to interrupt.
Esoteric seems to me as someone who has an understanding of other people's realization. None of his own. So, he parrots what he has heard. And, sometimes he throws a bit of his own personality in the mix. Which makes the mix bitter to the taste.
If you try to remember that he is no more than a parrot then you can let him be and still eat your food ... hahaha.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sugar and salt look alike, but are not interchangeable.  It doesnt work to put salt in the cakemix, or sugar on your veggies.

Reading and comprehending what someone has written about awakening is not the same as experiencing it.  As Gangaji says of the experience, *even a split second is enough to convey its meaning*, even though satori experiences usually last for minutes or even hours.

Its one thing to imagine nothingness, and quite another to experience being it.

There was another fellow here who declared himself *teacher*, because as he said he was a professional teacher and it should be his place to lead the discussion, hand out assignments, etc. 

People didnt like that, someone taking control of them.  Alan and Chontri stepped in and said there are no teachers here.  Just say what you have to say.  There are posting guidelines and rules, visible with each posting dialogue box.

I dont think Im better than anyone else. I know for a fact that I am not.  If you have not yet become awakened, you will gain nothing from it that you do not already have.  Although it may be said you will lose a great deal, your life as you know it, materiality, although not possessions, many things you take for granted, including the value of your own opinion, gone.  And also, in speaking of it, you may attract derision from those who do not understand. 

Still, I dont know of anyone who is awakened who would opt to reverse the process.

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

"
.........

I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry.
"
.........

Your mouth is fine, open or shut. It's your mind we have to worry about.

--------------------------------

Ive changed my mind about esoteric.  My big brother irritates a lot of people with his attitude.  But we are as we are, and there is not much we can do about it.  I dont blame him for being who he is, I just choose not to have anything to do with him.

One day when we were kids, Fat Pete grabbed me and said, *Call for your brother to save you.*  I said, *NO !  I wont do it !*  He said, *I dont want to hurt you, I like you, its your brother I dont like.  He picks on both of us, but you cant beat him, and I cant catch him, so get him over here and I will beat him up for both of us.*  Then I said, *Help !  Help !*

About the time I got to be 15, and was finally the same size as my brother, I called him out into the back yard to fight.  I won.  He ran away waving his arms in the air like a little girl after I nearly killed him.  And he has not presumed to get physical with me since, after many many years of bullying, and nearly killing more times that either of us can remember.

Hes a lot like you, esoteric.  He reads up on things, memorizes a few facts, and then he thinks hes an expert and should set the standard for everyone else.

Well, in Zen, if not Buddhism or any other religion, there really is no standard.  There only is what you experience, what you understand from it, and hopefully a happier and more comfortable life because of it.

"
.........

What you see is not me. I don't fit on your screen.
"
.........

"
.........

What you see is not me. I don't fit on your screen.
"
.........

Probably not.  More subjective than objective, Id say.  I just got to the bottom of why I have not liked you.  You remind me of my older brother.

Now that I know that, I probably will not have any particular feelings toward you at all, positive or negative. 

However, you can still take that stick of yours and stick it where the sun dont shine.  You have no business hitting anyone with a stick.  It is certainly not to your benefit, and you have not been duly appointed to do that, and youre not qualified.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.22.2012
09:35AM EDT 
vertical line Make peace with your brother. Make peace with your mother. Make peace with the Spirit, the Divine Feminine, Goddess of Life and Death and Rebirth. And know that you are She and She is you.

Then you may see me, and cry and laugh at the wonder of it all.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144795
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.22.2012
09:36AM EDT 
vertical line Or you could just sit and have a cup of tea.

Your choice. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144796
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.22.2012
09:37AM EDT 
vertical line In fact, you could do both. At the same time. Might be good for you.

Whatever you choose, I love you anyway. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144797
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Reply from starduster
Oct.23.2012
05:22AM EDT 
vertical line

Ive always had a problem with authority, and especially with self-appointed superiors.  If someone is duly appointed I will follow them.  Ive even been criticized for supporting bosses that no one liked, including me, and I just said I had to because they had a right to expect my best.  But those who are self appointed, or exceed their authority, have no place with me.

I worked for a guy in the Navy who was abusive.  Almost in the same breath, he would take credit for my ideas, and then turn around say something mean to me.  Oddly, he had specifically requested that I be assigned to his section in the first place.

I had been asked to put a flow chart together by our boss, because I was a draftsman.  Then later, I was walking down the hall and noticed our boss was in a meeting room next to our office.  We always had to clear out when there were meetings because the wall didnt go all the way to the ceiling and everything could be heard between the two rooms.

As I walked into our office, the guy I worked for jumped all over me saying I had done way too good a job on the flowchart, and that I needed to learn because if you do good work like that they will expect it all the time.  I knew our boss next door could hear us, and jumped right back at him.  I dont remember all that I said but it started with, *They better damn well expect my best because thats all they are ever going to get....*  Then I stormed away.

The next day, my supervisor was called into the bosses office.  He was told I was being transferred out of his section, that he was stripped of all authority over me, and was not to give me any orders, and that if he caused me any more problems he would be sent to sea on the first available ship.  I was promoted and worked directly for the boss after that.

Some things just fall into place.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144817
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Reply from starduster
Oct.23.2012
05:31AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "In fact, you could do both. At the same time. Might be good for you.

Whatever you choose, I love you anyway. :-)
"
.........

Youre not pushing my buttons anymore, esoteric, so Im sure we will get along better.

Not to worry, the Spirit and I, the Divine Goddess of the Universe and I, have a very good relationship that promises to last forever.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144818
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.23.2012
06:28AM EDT 
vertical line Equanimity and goodwill, celebrates the patience of the Divine Feminine.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144826
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.24.2012
12:19PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "In fact, you could do both. At the same time. Might be good for you.

Whatever you choose, I love you anyway. :-)
"
.........

Youre not pushing my buttons anymore, esoteric, so Im sure we will get along better.

Not to worry, the Spirit and I, the Divine Goddess of the Universe and I, have a very good relationship that promises to last forever.

"
.........

Some people let us know that there is still much work to do on ourselves.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144940
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.24.2012
03:06PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Original Mind
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144943
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.24.2012
05:00PM EDT 
vertical line 1x1
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144948
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.24.2012
05:23PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "1x1"
.........
What you started with ... you end with the same thing
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144952
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.24.2012
05:28PM EDT 
vertical line It's not 1=1.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144956
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.24.2012
06:51PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "It's not 1=1."
.........

What is true for you isn't always true for others
But, let's say you are right ... now what??
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.24.2012
07:08PM EDT 
vertical line Now it will all work out.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144968
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.24.2012
08:24PM EDT 
vertical line What's the difference between right and left. Any ideas?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144972
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.24.2012
08:33PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line "If the why adds up then it equals the sun."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144975
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.24.2012
08:37PM EDT 
vertical line Way to love.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144976
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.24.2012
10:01PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Intimacy at best.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144981
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Reply from starduster
Oct.25.2012
03:41AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "What's the difference between right and left. Any ideas?"
.........

A deer at the side of the road broke to the right instead of the left,

so I did not hit him on the way to work tonight.

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