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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TRAPS OF ZAZEN
vertical line Posted on Oct.19.2012 @ 05:49PM EDT by QuantumZen
I started doing zazen just recently. And first thing I noticed is that after a while the view in front of me becomes meaningless and the ambient noise tends to go lower and lower until I can't hear it. Is this alright? Or am I going into some kind of trance which isn't exactly awareness.
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Reply from football
Oct.19.2012
06:13PM EDT 
Email football
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Your ancestors spirits!

(I love myself that sometimes I speak as if I know something.)

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Reply from football
Oct.19.2012
06:45PM EDT 
Email football
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Correction:

the spirit of your ancestors!

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Reply from football
Oct.19.2012
06:46PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9LH_y159sg
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.19.2012
08:03PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I started doing zazen just recently. And first thing I noticed is that after a while the view in front of me becomes meaningless and the ambient noise tends to go lower and lower until I can't hear it. Is this alright? Or am I going into some kind of trance which isn't exactly awareness.


As far as I know, that isn't what they mean as a trap of Zazen.
Traps are things like power trips which take away your awareness.
Like thoughts which take you away from breathe and never let you go.

From what you describe, it sounds like your attention is split between the awareness of your surroundings and your breathe. That is part of the practice. Just remain aware.


Riverstone wrote the following ...
The awareness before and after thinking, this is the practice. If your mind is chaotic with thought,
your awareness of this .. is the practice. A great effort to make your mind stop thinking is unnatural.
The practice facilitates the moments when thinking is practically not there, but it is organic, natural.
When you focus on an object so strongly, that you are no longer thinking this is called concentration practice.
The whole idea of concentration practice is to remain aware, but aware without the rejection of the flowing of the present moment.
Should that moment contain, irritation, chaotic thoughts, or pleasant feelings, it is your awareness which is the practice.
Attachment to discomfort or pleasure will cause you to spiral in many directions,
but acknowledgement and honoring what arises and falls away as you release it, this is the practice.
When your awareness is strong enough you will begin to see your karmic impulses and instead of running with them, you let them go.
When there is no awareness, you are controlled by your notions and will do much to protect the truth of your beliefs.

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Reply from esoteric
Oct.19.2012
09:07PM EDT 
vertical line He didn't say anything about watching his breathing, Avisitor.

So, if you're watching your breathing, then just watch your breathing. View ahead and ambient noise has nothing to do with that.

But if you stop watching your breathing, and everything else goes away too, then you are in big big trouble.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.19.2012
09:43PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line I am watching my breathing. I am counting breaths in my mind. Although I tend to forget to count and just breathe after a while :)
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Reply from justin
Oct.19.2012
09:48PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "I am watching my breathing. I am counting breaths in my mind. Although I tend to forget to count and just breathe after a while :) "
.........

Sounds good,
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.19.2012
11:09PM EDT 
vertical line Just wait next time around you would be flying to heaven...lol
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
12:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Just wait next time around you would be flying to heaven...lol "
.........

You would do that.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
08:30AM EDT 
vertical line I'm watching you. Get out of that without moving.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144526
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.20.2012
08:40AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "He didn't say anything about watching his breathing, Avisitor.

So, if you're watching your breathing, then just watch your breathing. View ahead and ambient noise has nothing to do with that.

But if you stop watching your breathing, and everything else goes away too, then you are in big big trouble.
"
.........
He said he was doing Zazen.
If you know anything then you would know that it entails watching your breathe.
So, I know why Starduster feels so irritated with you.
You simply don't know anything and keep yapping away.
Stop and regroup. Go find a teacher and a sangha.
You will be better off and you will find enlightenment sooner. Go.
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Reply from football
Oct.20.2012
10:04AM EDT 
Email football
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You have too much coming down on esoteric.I see nothing wrong with him.He is a PERFECT guy.and he is much wiser than him seens.for even both of you.

take it easy guys..I'm near him.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
10:07AM EDT 
vertical line Well, you seem like nice trappists, not Trappists, so be nice, cross that breath when you come to it, and you won't know a thing about big big trouble.

And, er, is there really any need for this?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
10:14AM EDT 
vertical line Heads up.
Look out below.
What is this absolute shedload of PERFECT crap that is coming?
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:35AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "He didn't say anything about watching his breathing, Avisitor.

So, if you're watching your breathing, then just watch your breathing. View ahead and ambient noise has nothing to do with that.

But if you stop watching your breathing, and everything else goes away too, then you are in big big trouble.
"
.........
He said he was doing Zazen.
If you know anything then you would know that it entails watching your breathe.
So, I know why Starduster feels so irritated with you.
You simply don't know anything and keep yapping away.
Stop and regroup. Go find a teacher and a sangha.
You will be better off and you will find enlightenment sooner. Go.
"
.........

So you assumed when he said he did zazen, it was the same as your understanding of zazen. And since I did not make that assumption, I must not know anything about zazen.

You make a lot of assumptions. Have a cup of tea.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Heads up.
Look out below.
What is this absolute shedload of PERFECT crap that is coming?
"
.........

Your perfect crap.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:38AM EDT 
vertical line Good morning!
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
11:39AM EDT 
vertical line Wait next time you would be in hell...lol
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
11:40AM EDT 
vertical line ^You're the big big trouble man with the big stick. Let me write you a poem.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
11:48AM EDT 
vertical line The sun is shining and the leaves are radiant. The sky is deep blue and a brisk wind blows.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.20.2012
01:26PM EDT 
vertical line Crappist.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
02:19PM EDT 
vertical line Took a crap, too. Time for lunch. It's a pretty day today.
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.20.2012
02:51PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "You have too much coming down on esoteric.I see nothing wrong with him.He is a PERFECT guy.and he is much wiser than him seens.for even both of you.

take it easy guys..I'm near him.

"
.........
Don't judge lest ye be judged .... hahaha

Your perfect guy is a .... parrot.
His knowledge doesn't jive with his realization
And, so he spouts crap thinking it applies.

If you wish to be like him then you already are.
I wish you and him the best.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144599
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.20.2012
02:55PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "So you assumed when he said he did zazen, it was the same as your understanding of zazen. And since I did not make that assumption, I must not know anything about zazen.

You make a lot of assumptions. Have a cup of tea.
"
.........
When you talk, it is not the same talk as mine??
When you breathe, it is not the same as mine??
Yes, I do make assumptions.
I had assumed you to be intelligent .. guess not??

You didn't not make assumptions??
You assumed my knowledge of Zazen is different from yours and different from QZ.
If anything ... you are simply full of .... assumptions ... or something else ... hahahaha
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
02:57PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "You have too much coming down on esoteric.I see nothing wrong with him.He is a PERFECT guy.and he is much wiser than him seens.for even both of you.

take it easy guys..I'm near him.

"
.........
Don't judge lest ye be judged .... hahaha

Your perfect guy is a .... parrot.
His knowledge doesn't jive with his realization
And, so he spouts crap thinking it applies.

If you wish to be like him then you already are.
I wish you and him the best.
"
.........

Have some pie.
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.20.2012
02:58PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "So you assumed when he said he did zazen, it was the same as your understanding of zazen. And since I did not make that assumption, I must not know anything about zazen.

You make a lot of assumptions. Have a cup of tea.
"
.........
When you talk, it is not the same talk as mine??
When you breathe, it is not the same as mine??
Yes, I do make assumptions.
I had assumed you to be intelligent .. guess not??

You didn't not make assumptions??
You assumed my knowledge of Zazen is different from yours and different from QZ.
If anything ... you are simply full of .... assumptions ... or something else ... hahahaha
"
.........

I'm all out of pie.
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
03:23PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "You have too much coming down on esoteric.I see nothing wrong with him.He is a PERFECT guy.and he is much wiser than him seens.for even both of you.

take it easy guys..I'm near him.

"
.........
Don't judge lest ye be judged .... hahaha

Your perfect guy is a .... parrot.
His knowledge doesn't jive with his realization
And, so he spouts crap thinking it applies.

If you wish to be like him then you already are.
I wish you and him the best.
"
.........

So why are you afraid to be judged...lol... you might go to hell if no one judge you...lol

Ah somebody told you that .. it is not good to judge... somebody told you all t hat.. no judging so you won't be judged...lol
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.20.2012
08:57PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line While standing on the precipice, you have your answer.
Now it is your choice to take that step forward or to go back.
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Reply from leoj99
Oct.20.2012
09:31PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "While standing on the precipice, you have your answer.
Now it is your choice to take that step forward or to go back.
"
.........

What are you talking about..
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.21.2012
09:25AM EDT 
vertical line Trappin' the crap in
the trap
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144671
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.21.2012
01:51PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "While standing on the precipice, you have your answer.
Now it is your choice to take that step forward or to go back.
"
.........

What are you talking about..
"
.........

Who wants to know??
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Reply from so_teh
Oct.21.2012
01:53PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line relax, sit, stay awhile
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144691
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.21.2012
02:50PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "relax, sit, stay awhile"
.........
Awfully kind of you.
Do you have anything to drink?
Maybe a cup of tea?
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Reply from esoteric
Oct.21.2012
06:59PM EDT 
vertical line Diablo.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.22.2012
10:47AM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line Didn't want to mae a new topic. Is 10min of zazen enough? I am just now starting daily zazen and have lots of technical questions :) Thanks for help everyone.
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Reply from football
Oct.22.2012
01:29PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Every journey begin with one step.But 10min. is less for me.At least you should do 30 min. One 30 at mornings one 30 evenings.Yet it is much important is to laying that practice all along your day.(Whole day)
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.22.2012
04:32PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Didn't want to mae a new topic. Is 10min of zazen enough? I am just now starting daily zazen and have lots of technical questions :) Thanks for help everyone. "
.........

No, 10 minutes is not enough.
You need to practice every minute of every day ... hahaha

We start from where we are. 10 minutes or whatever.
But, the target is to have a regular practice.
Preferably with a teacher and a sangha.
To move toward a practice of 30 minutes a day
Then even may be to sesshin ...
Only serious people may apply.

Sesshin can be a single day of sitting practice for almost the entire day
or it can be three days or a week or even a month of serious practice.
Often, it can cause many changes in ones views on life.
Oh, don't think they will be fun filled times.
Little food and lots of work is done.

When a regular practice takes hold, one begins to change
A teacher can aid in such changes and guide one along the path.
Soon, there isn't a time where you are not in practice.
This is because the changes are deep.

Disclaimer ... I reserve the right to be wrong ... hahaha
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Reply from QuantumZen
Oct.22.2012
04:42PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line But how do I find a teacher in a big modern city?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144802
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.22.2012
05:04PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "But how do I find a teacher in a big modern city? "
.........
The internet is a good place to start asking questions.
Google??
Bing??

Gassho
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 144804
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