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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: DEATH
vertical line Posted on Oct.31.2012 @ 05:44AM EDT by starduster

When mom died in a hurricane in 1993, I knew it was coming.  It was an intense time, and I found myself more on my toes than usual.  Some other phenomena occurred too.

During her final stay they moved her to another room and lost her teeth.  She couldnt talk after that.  The only way to know how she was doing was to go in and see for myself.

She was fidgeting on her bed.  My brother asked if it was bedsores, and I said, *No.  Its a sore throat.  It feels like fingers digging in behind her windpipe, but it only hurts when she swallows.*  Her eyes got as big as saucers and she nodded her head.

Later she was fidgeting and my brother was trying to ask questions again.  I said, *Its Death.  It rises up in her like a wave up out of the ocean, and just when she thinks its going to crest it falls away again.  And its really pissing her off because that means she has to get ready all over again.*  Her eyes got as big as saucers and she nodded her head.

Sometimes, when I need to or want to, I can project my awareness into other people and things.  I cant just say, I will do that now.  Something triggers it, curiousity, danger, but when it happens I can control it until it stops.  It comes to me when it comes to me, like visions, when I need to know something.  Ive had that since my earliest recollection, even before I could talk.  It may be something I developed as a baby when my mother and brother were trying to kill me.  Its one of the means by which I was able to survive.

When I was projecting into mom to see how she was doing I found I was not alone in there.  Death was there too.  We looked at each other, figuratively speaking, both surprised to see the other, like a hiker and a bear meeting on the trail.  We determined we were not a danger to each other and went on about our business.  But I *felt* Death, as a universal force, right out of the Passover in the Bible, that is aware and conscious.  It was completely emotionless.  It came without mercy or malice, simply because it could, because that is what it does.   I call it a Force, which I saw as a kind of life-form I had not previously encountered.

When we went to the hospital to get moms stuff, during the eye of the hurricane, she was lying in her bed grotesquely contorted in her last gasp for breath.  My brother went over and straightened out her body, and stroked her hair.  They were always very close.  I needed to know that she was really gone.  I projected into her and searched very thoroughly from head to toe for any signs of her.  There was nothing of *her* left there.  I had never projected into a dead body before.  It felt like an empty shell.

Im sharing this because of the last two paragraphs, which apply to all of us.  We are all spiritual entities.  We are in these bodies, but we are not these bodies.  There is much information about us that is hidden from us in what is called the subconscious.  About previous lives, for instance, and we use it subconsciously as we live this life. 

The value of sitting, meditation, self-hypnosis, auto-suggestion, etc, is that it puts us in touch with our inner-selves, allowing us to be more than just our consciousness.  You may not be aware of the difference consciously, at least not at first, but from the first effort you are operating with more of yourself than before.


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Reply from football
Oct.31.2012
07:27AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line diplomacy must
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145539
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.31.2012
08:13AM EDT 
vertical line The existence of death has been disproved, and not by football.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145540
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Reply from starduster
Oct.31.2012
09:11AM EDT 
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*There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy....*

Who said that ?  I dont recall.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145550
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.31.2012
09:55AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Just walked over to a bookcase and pulled out Joan Halifax's  'Being with Dying Cultivating Compassion and Fearlessness in the Presence of Death.'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145556
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Reply from Avisitor
Oct.31.2012
10:42AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I have felt the emptiness of the funeral homes.
Sadness and grieving ...
There is no negotiating or pleading
Just trying to find peace with it
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145573
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Reply from Joe Chip
Oct.31.2012
10:59AM EDT 
vertical line Funeral home kitsch.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145575
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.31.2012
10:59AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Just stepped up to the bookcase behind me and found Stephen Levine's Healing Into Life And Death, and Who Dies, An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying. Levine is great.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145574
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Reply from football
Oct.31.2012
01:21PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Quote: "

*There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy....*

Who said that ?  I dont recall.

"
.........

"
.........

Jesus?!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145589
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Reply from Woodsman
Oct.31.2012
02:47PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Mary is the mother of you, god.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145595
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.01.2012
08:11AM EDT 
vertical line It is my husband who bore me;
and it is I who am his mother.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145638
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.01.2012
10:57AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

*There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy....*

Who said that ?  I dont recall.

"
.........

"
.........

Jesus?!

"
..Close.   Hamlet.   Closer.  Shakespeare. You could have Googled it. Google finds everything.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145662
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.01.2012
11:00AM EDT 
vertical line There are more things in your Google, than are dreamt of in your heaven and earth.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145664
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.01.2012
01:31PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I am the web.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145671
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.01.2012
02:47PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Just stepped up to the bookcase behind me and found Stephen Levine's Healing Into Life And Death, and Who Dies, An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying. Levine is great. "
.........

Funeral home kitsch.

Unputdownable.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.02.2012
09:49AM EDT 
vertical line Excellence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145699
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Reply from starduster
Nov.03.2012
07:43PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "It is my husband who bore me;
and it is I who am his mother.
"
.........

Thats new.  Inversion therapy ?

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Reply from starduster
Nov.03.2012
07:52PM EDT 
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Quote: "Mary is the mother of you, god. "
.........

I had a strange vision, wondering about Mary, mother of Jesus, in this world anyway.

Son of Jehovah.  Actually, one of many, where he comes from. 

All that *gave his only son* bullcrap.  Jesus was framed by the Ecclesiastic Court and executed by the Roman State, aka murdered, which saved no one, but only gave rise to the Holy Roman Empire.

Anyway, in meditation I wondered about Mary, and entered into a visionary state where Satan said, *Shes right over here*.  There were rows upon rows of people, evidently sleeping.  He woke her up to talk to me, and she got very pissed off that I woke her up before it was time.  I assume she meant like judgement day, when all souls are to rise from the grave, etc.  So I didnt talk to her.  I just thought, what a bitch, and woke up from my meditation.

An amusing fantasy, I suppose. 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
06:57AM EDT 
vertical line An error has occurred. Please try again later.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145894
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.04.2012
08:41AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145905
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Reply from starduster
Nov.04.2012
10:37AM EDT 
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Quote: "An error has occurred. Please try again later."
.........

Sharing violation.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
05:27AM EDT 
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Quote: "Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization. "
.........

Where do you go from realization?

One poster here said, *When I got to the top of the mountain, I let out a shrill yell that shook the universe*.  Thats a lot easier to do when youre the only one in it.

When I got to the top of the mountain, figuratively speaking of course, I took wing and flew into the night sky, because there was nowhere else to go.

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them....

I hadnt read anything about Zen for about 15 years, and I thought my awakening trip to the Void was a once in a lifetime thing.  I went into meditation expecting things to be the way they were before.  But I kept going back into the Void, and then things began to appear there for me....

I dont mean to harp about Herrigel, but hes the only author Ive come across who has talked about what happens after awakening.  Most talk about getting there.

I dont know what will happen to anyone else after awakening.  Where do you go from nowhere ?  Not even up, or down, or around, but literally nowhere.  Does it even matter ?

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146006
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Reply from football
Nov.05.2012
07:40AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line You can go where ever you want. Does it matter?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146017
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.05.2012
08:17AM EDT 
vertical line Stay where you are and the world will come to you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146018
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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
08:28AM EDT 
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Quote: "You can go where ever you want. Does it matter?"
.........

What the Spirit has given me in the Void is a home,

which is something I never had before.

That matters to me.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
08:31AM EDT 
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Quote: "Stay where you are and the world will come to you."
.........

This is what happens when I sit,

sometimes I just sit,

and other times *the world comes to me*,

or visions come to me in answer to questions Ive had,

or showing me things I need to know,

sometimes things I dont want to know,

that are even hard to live with,

but better to know than to be a fool,

even if you cant change the course youre on.

Thanks for your advice, on a subconscious level,

it has helped.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146020
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.05.2012
08:48AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization. "
.........

Where do you go from realization?

One poster here said, *When I got to the top of the mountain, I let out a shrill yell that shook the universe*.  Thats a lot easier to do when youre the only one in it.

When I got to the top of the mountain, figuratively speaking of course, I took wing and flew into the night sky, because there was nowhere else to go.

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them....

I hadnt read anything about Zen for about 15 years, and I thought my awakening trip to the Void was a once in a lifetime thing.  I went into meditation expecting things to be the way they were before.  But I kept going back into the Void, and then things began to appear there for me....

I dont mean to harp about Herrigel, but hes the only author Ive come across who has talked about what happens after awakening.  Most talk about getting there.

I dont know what will happen to anyone else after awakening.  Where do you go from nowhere ?  Not even up, or down, or around, but literally nowhere.  Does it even matter ?

"
.........

It is the reason we are here, with each single breath we take in life's invisible matter and give back matter to the life around us. What goes on physically unseen, below the range of vision is what makes meditation so important and giving, to all, as everything is connected.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146021
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Reply from shayne
Nov.05.2012
10:10AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line so you let eve the so called goddess kill mommy?


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146032
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Reply from shayne
Nov.05.2012
10:11AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line god is not a thing.

period.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146033
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Reply from shayne
Nov.05.2012
10:12AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization. "
.........

Where do you go from realization?

One poster here said, *When I got to the top of the mountain, I let out a shrill yell that shook the universe*.  Thats a lot easier to do when youre the only one in it.

When I got to the top of the mountain, figuratively speaking of course, I took wing and flew into the night sky, because there was nowhere else to go.

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them....

I hadnt read anything about Zen for about 15 years, and I thought my awakening trip to the Void was a once in a lifetime thing.  I went into meditation expecting things to be the way they were before.  But I kept going back into the Void, and then things began to appear there for me....

I dont mean to harp about Herrigel, but hes the only author Ive come across who has talked about what happens after awakening.  Most talk about getting there.

I dont know what will happen to anyone else after awakening.  Where do you go from nowhere ?  Not even up, or down, or around, but literally nowhere.  Does it even matter ?

"
.........

this sounds like crappy ascention to me.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146034
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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
10:27AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization. "
.........

Where do you go from realization?

One poster here said, *When I got to the top of the mountain, I let out a shrill yell that shook the universe*.  Thats a lot easier to do when youre the only one in it.

When I got to the top of the mountain, figuratively speaking of course, I took wing and flew into the night sky, because there was nowhere else to go.

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them....

I hadnt read anything about Zen for about 15 years, and I thought my awakening trip to the Void was a once in a lifetime thing.  I went into meditation expecting things to be the way they were before.  But I kept going back into the Void, and then things began to appear there for me....

I dont mean to harp about Herrigel, but hes the only author Ive come across who has talked about what happens after awakening.  Most talk about getting there.

I dont know what will happen to anyone else after awakening.  Where do you go from nowhere ?  Not even up, or down, or around, but literally nowhere.  Does it even matter ?

"
.........

It is the reason we are here, with each single breath we take in lifes invisible matter and give back matter to the life around us. What goes on physically unseen, below the range of vision is what makes meditation so important and giving, to all, as everything is connected.
"
.........

"
.........

It is the reason we are here, with each single breath we take in lifes invisible matter and give back matter to the life around us. What goes on physically unseen, below the range of vision is what makes meditation so important and giving, to all, as everything is connected.
"
.........

Nice.  That is a good rendition of the Zen concept of *dependent arising*, that everything arises out of nothingness, equally, yet is dependent on everything else that has arisen similarly.

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Reply from esoteric
Nov.06.2012
04:08AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.06.2012
04:09AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Being alone and without things brings out an appreciation for what was, is, and shall become once on the path to realization. "
.........

Where do you go from realization?

One poster here said, *When I got to the top of the mountain, I let out a shrill yell that shook the universe*.  Thats a lot easier to do when youre the only one in it.

When I got to the top of the mountain, figuratively speaking of course, I took wing and flew into the night sky, because there was nowhere else to go.

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them....

I hadnt read anything about Zen for about 15 years, and I thought my awakening trip to the Void was a once in a lifetime thing.  I went into meditation expecting things to be the way they were before.  But I kept going back into the Void, and then things began to appear there for me....

I dont mean to harp about Herrigel, but hes the only author Ive come across who has talked about what happens after awakening.  Most talk about getting there.

I dont know what will happen to anyone else after awakening.  Where do you go from nowhere ?  Not even up, or down, or around, but literally nowhere.  Does it even matter ?

"
.........

It is the reason we are here, with each single breath we take in lifes invisible matter and give back matter to the life around us. What goes on physically unseen, below the range of vision is what makes meditation so important and giving, to all, as everything is connected.
"
.........

"
.........

It is the reason we are here, with each single breath we take in lifes invisible matter and give back matter to the life around us. What goes on physically unseen, below the range of vision is what makes meditation so important and giving, to all, as everything is connected.
"
.........

Nice.  That is a good rendition of the Zen concept of *dependent arising*, that everything arises out of nothingness, equally, yet is dependent on everything else that has arisen similarly.

"
.........

Dependent arising starduster.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146096
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Reply from starduster
Nov.06.2012
04:53AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.06.2012
05:00AM EDT 
vertical line

Due to governmental regulations, the television station was compelled to hire a disable person.

They opted to hire a blind movie critic, who assessed the films presented by the station on the basis of their soundtrack alone.

The best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry. (Robert Burns)

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.06.2012
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line Death - it's all one big strong perfume.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146123
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.06.2012
08:40AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Death - it's all one big strong perfume. "
.........

Stinks to high hell in here
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146127
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.06.2012
10:55AM EDT 
vertical line Take a shower.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146144
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.06.2012
12:13PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Take a shower."
.........

I have done so already ... So, it must be coming from you .. hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146151
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.06.2012
12:38PM EDT 
vertical line If that's true, you must be death or dead or both .... hahahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146152
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.06.2012
08:19PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "If that's true, you must be death or dead or both .... hahahaha"
.........
Hmm, if I am Death then I'm coming for you ... haha
If I'm dead then this feels very real ... in which case, I'm still coming for you ... hahaha
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.06.2012
08:19PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
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Reply from starduster
Nov.07.2012
04:08AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

When I learned to snow ski, the first thing I wanted to learn was how to stop.  Which I did, and which made the rest of learning to ski much easier, because I knew I could always just stop.  But, of course, there was a lot more to it than just stopping.

Youve stopped and you think youre there, esoteric.  Or at least it appears that way to me.  Maybe Im wrong.

What Im seeing is that you have some control of your mind for the first time.  You have learned to silence the demons by silencing the mind.  And thats a good thing.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.07.2012
05:58AM EDT 
vertical line hmmmm ... Avisitor's 'here' [surface banality] is not here.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
01:02AM EDT 
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In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

When I learned to snow ski, the first thing I wanted to learn was how to stop.  Which I did, and which made the rest of learning to ski much easier, because I knew I could always just stop.  But, of course, there was a lot more to it than just stopping.

Youve stopped and you think youre there, esoteric.  Or at least it appears that way to me.  Maybe Im wrong.

What Im seeing is that you have some control of your mind for the first time.  You have learned to silence the demons by silencing the mind.  And thats a good thing.

"
.........

Memory about some past event. Ideas about what you think I think. Judgment about what you see. Okay, but the question was...What has you pinned down?

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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
05:38AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

When I learned to snow ski, the first thing I wanted to learn was how to stop.  Which I did, and which made the rest of learning to ski much easier, because I knew I could always just stop.  But, of course, there was a lot more to it than just stopping.

Youve stopped and you think youre there, esoteric.  Or at least it appears that way to me.  Maybe Im wrong.

What Im seeing is that you have some control of your mind for the first time.  You have learned to silence the demons by silencing the mind.  And thats a good thing.

"
.........

Memory about some past event. Ideas about what you think I think. Judgment about what you see. Okay, but the question was...What has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........

Memory about some past event. Ideas about what you think I think. Judgment about what you see. Okay, but the question was...What has you pinned down?
"
.........

Not sure what you mean by your question, *what has you pinned down*, but what I hear is *what is your delusion*.

Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.  Knowing it is all illusion sets you free, like a leaf in the wind, dancing or tossed, your choice.

What I believe in, the only thing I believe in, is the Spirit in the Void.  So thats my delusion, and the only thing that can pin me down.  I really dont care about anything else.

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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
09:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

In Herrigels books he talks of what happens to monks after attaining awakening.  He said they go back into the Void in their meditation, into nothingness, and then things begin to appear there for them...."

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

.........

Things were already appearing before. Why do you make a difference between things appearing "here" and things appearing "there"?
"
.........

I am here at the Inn.  The Post Office is there, a few miles away.  These are not differences, they are references. 

Time is continuous, yet for reference sake we refer to days, months, years, etc.

Its all one big universe, one whole day.  One thing, in totem.  Yet for many this little planet is all of it for them, because they only know being human, and they only know being here.

I dont have that luxury because being human is only one part of my being.  The one I know and think of as my real me is a formless genderless spiritual entity.  Not the Spirit Itself, just another of Its creations, out of Itself, yet still within Itself.

You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are. 

That which we call our ego will do anything to survive.  Yours is winning.

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........
No confusion about some differences between "human me" and "real me", "doing" and "not-doing", or "self" and "Self", or "Spirit" and "just another creation". Because, no opinions or beliefs held onto for survival.

So...what has you pinned down?
"
.........

When I learned to snow ski, the first thing I wanted to learn was how to stop.  Which I did, and which made the rest of learning to ski much easier, because I knew I could always just stop.  But, of course, there was a lot more to it than just stopping.

Youve stopped and you think youre there, esoteric.  Or at least it appears that way to me.  Maybe Im wrong.

What Im seeing is that you have some control of your mind for the first time.  You have learned to silence the demons by silencing the mind.  And thats a good thing.

"
.........

Memory about some past event. Ideas about what you think I think. Judgment about what you see. Okay, but the question was...What has you pinned down?
"
.........

"
.........

Memory about some past event. Ideas about what you think I think. Judgment about what you see. Okay, but the question was...What has you pinned down?
"
.........

Not sure what you mean by your question, *what has you pinned down*, but what I hear is *what is your delusion*.

Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.  Knowing it is all illusion sets you free, like a leaf in the wind, dancing or tossed, your choice.

What I believe in, the only thing I believe in, is the Spirit in the Void.  So thats my delusion, and the only thing that can pin me down.  I really dont care about anything else.

"
.........

You yourself said to me, "You are a prisoner of your opinion.  The value you place on your opinion makes you think you should judge everything because in your opinion your opinion has great value.  And that is how your ego is pinning you down, making sure you do not become awakened, by making you think that you already are."

So, when I ask, "What has you pinned down?", how can you not understand my question? I didn't ask anything about delusions. Just...

What has you pinned down?
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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
09:10AM EDT 
vertical line *Beat it kid, you bother me*, (W.C.. Fields)
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
07:57PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "*Beat it kid, you bother me*, (W.C.. Fields)"
.........

Mr. Self Bothered
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
08:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "*Beat it kid, you bother me*, (W.C.. Fields)"
.........

Mr. Self Bothered
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Reply from zbishak
Nov.09.2012
04:28AM EDT 
Email zbishak
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death is all one can know

life needs no knowing

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