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  Posted on Aug.13.2009 @ 07:45PM EDT by chontri
The way toward liberation is to train yourself to live in the present
without wanting to become anything. Give up becoming this or that,
live without cravings, and experience... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: DISCUSSION FORUM
vertical line Posted on Nov.02.2012 @ 11:06PM EDT by leoj99
Discussion Forum.

As I understand this Forum is a discussion Forum. Is this right?

It seems to me this is good to discuss some Zen topics. But it seems that most members are not really discussing. They merely posted some intelligible phrases that are difficult to understand. Sometimes I am thinking if members here are really young or too old. I guess you know what I mean.

It seems in the other Zen Forum it is mostly an advising forum where they advice to seek a teacher and group to practice zazen.

I think this Forum might better for discussions and learning venue.

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.02.2012
11:08PM EDT 
vertical line I mean untilligible not intelligible posts..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145738
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Reply from justin
Nov.03.2012
03:12AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line You are not interested in discussion everyone sees this. After a couple of years of visiting here u notice patterns. People come and want to teach everyone all their new found knowledge (yes suprise surprise) and then not finding what they seek argument and (to give) dialectics they go. Some people come and realise , everyone here, is seeking and not antagonistic or malevolent in intention. And they relax and begin to discuss. I am watching to see which way u go.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145751
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Reply from starduster
Nov.03.2012
04:28AM EDT 
vertical line

This is not a place for learning or teaching.

Its a place for people to get together who probably dont have many other like minded people to talk to.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145754
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
04:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "You are not interested in discussion everyone sees this. After a couple of years of visiting here u notice patterns. People come and want to teach everyone all their new found knowledge (yes suprise surprise) and then not finding what they seek argument and (to give) dialectics they go. Some people come and realise , everyone here, is seeking and not antagonistic or malevolent in intention. And they relax and begin to discuss. I am watching to see which way u go. "
.........

Is it because no one can respond to my posts thats why I am not interested in a discussion?

So why should I bother posting topics then if I not interested in a discussion.

"
The discussion forum aims to spark discussions and to provide fellow buddhists and non-buddhists a means to discuss issues relevant to zen and buddhism."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145757
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
04:52AM EDT 
vertical line To spark discussions....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145758
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Reply from justin
Nov.03.2012
06:53AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line No lol ??
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145760
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
08:09AM EDT 
vertical line This is the place to ask leoj99.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145761
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
08:11AM EDT 
vertical line Hi, passing bye
the unintelligible
place

100
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145762
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.03.2012
08:22AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line ego takes every form of flattery and inflates itself into conceptual expansion until the limits are reached, then it deflated and what remains is selfless 
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Reply from Chryseis
Nov.03.2012
08:41AM EDT 
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yawn

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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.03.2012
08:46AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line stretch 
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
08:49AM EDT 
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
11:18AM EDT 
vertical line It looks like responses in this forum are autistic responses...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145790
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.03.2012
11:25AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line heyep
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
11:51AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "It looks like responses in this forum are autistic responses...lol

"
.........

Really?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
12:12PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "It looks like responses in this forum are autistic responses...lol

"
.........

Really?
"
.........

Well I really don't know if you can't see the truth...
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
12:14PM EDT 
vertical line Unlike in the other forum their topic and responses are like books.
I really don't know if they are confusing people.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145794
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
12:18PM EDT 
vertical line Autistic responses?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
12:20PM EDT 
vertical line Do you think you're a savant?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
02:27PM EDT 
vertical line Or are you just a typo?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145813
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.03.2012
02:35PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Or are you just a typo?"
.........

Nope. I can see only the responses not the persons...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145817
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
02:39PM EDT 
vertical line Autistic or artistic?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145819
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
02:55PM EDT 
vertical line No, you don't see the responses; you see what you want to see.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145829
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Reply from football
Nov.03.2012
03:14PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line How would it be to see the responses, really?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145830
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
03:20PM EDT 
vertical line That would be seeing.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
03:36PM EDT 
vertical line ... listen ... a pineal response to voices at the counterpoint of nature ... expanding the ... um ... chorus ... hear it ... ?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
03:38PM EDT 
vertical line sh ... what's that punning?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145834
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Reply from football
Nov.03.2012
03:39PM EDT 
Email football
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Quote: "That would be seeing. "
.........

I read as That would be interesting.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.03.2012
04:14PM EDT 
vertical line I heard that would be telling.
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.03.2012
04:55PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "... listen ... a pineal response to voices at the counterpoint of nature ... expanding the ... um ... chorus ... hear it ... ?"
.........

Hey, lets keep it clean in here ... no more pineal this or pineal that .. okay??
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Reply from starduster
Nov.03.2012
06:47PM EDT 
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Quote: "Unlike in the other forum their topic and responses are like books.
I really don't know if they are confusing people.
"
.........

What does it matter.  We ponder and ponder,

and then suddenly, instantly, it all comes clear,

and then we wonder at the wonder of it all.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
06:24AM EDT 
vertical line leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
06:29AM EDT 
vertical line If you can see, look.
If you can look,
observe your own
responses.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.04.2012
11:32AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS. "
.........

At least mine posts aren't autistic posts...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145920
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.04.2012
11:38AM EDT 
vertical line At least in this forum there aren't too many categories. Only Zen.. and Zen... hehehe..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145923
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
11:47AM EDT 
vertical line You're really young and too old - you know what you mean - laugh at your own responses.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
12:13PM EDT 
vertical line Whoah, pineal gland consultation - sound as a bell, clean as a whistle.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 145929
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.04.2012
12:19PM EDT 
vertical line Is this really true? That in this forum they want to spark discussions?
Is this true in practice or just in words...lol

My experience in other places they don't want you to do that..lol
They just want you to listen and behave or else...lol
They call that follow the rules..
They will advice you what to do.. even what to do it your life..lol





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Reply from leoj99
Nov.04.2012
12:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS. "
.........

Well how can you spark a discussions if there is nothing to spark with..lol

If everyone is heavy and wet how can they spark..lol
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.04.2012
12:25PM EDT 
vertical line You don't see persons, remember? So it must all be down to you - one unskilled, heavy drip.
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Reply from justin
Nov.04.2012
09:30PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS. "
.........

Well how can you spark a discussions if there is nothing to spark with..lol

If everyone is heavy and wet how can they spark..lol
"
.........

you show to much, and confirm much more
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.05.2012
12:03AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I use the guide, I appreciate the input.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.05.2012
12:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I use the guide, I appreciate the input."
.........

You are appreciated.
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.05.2012
12:37AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line _/\_ namaste
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.05.2012
12:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "_/\_ namaste "
.........

Friend sit_teh   :-)
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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
04:56AM EDT 
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Quote: "leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS. "
.........

The things leoj99 has been quoting are not for sharing, or discussion really.

They are for internalizing, not externalizing.

Quoting is like driving down the wrong way on the autobahn.

It will get you nowhere fast.

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.05.2012
05:55AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
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If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

 

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

 

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.05.2012
06:18AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote:

Correction: I meant 'stage' not 'state'.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.05.2012
07:34AM EDT 
vertical line I appreciate the state you're all in.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.05.2012
08:50AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

"
.........

"
.........

It always seems to be those who are not awakened who want to challenge those who say they are, by some test of some sort.  They think someone is claiming to have an elevated position over them, and they dont like that.

But being awakened isnt an elevated position.  Someone who is a bonofide Zen Master in a Monastery has the elevated position of being a Master in a Monastery, but not in being awakened.  Being awakened makes you the equal of all things: equally unimportant.

It could be said its a trap.  One seeks to become awakened thinking it is an elevated position.  But by the time one realizes it is not elevated its too late, they are already awakened.

Someone may conclude that they are awakened, or even fake it, but it isnt long before they show their true colors.  We actually had one guy show up here claiming to be enlightened.  When he was rebuffed he said, *Im enlightened.  You should all be down on your knees kissing my feet and worshiping me*.  Yeah, right, he wasnt around long.

Usually if someone seeks to draw self-importance from being enlightened, you can be pretty sure they are not.  Even those who make a living at it, like Osho or Gangaji, have an aura of humility even while those who seek to draw from their well seek to elevate them.  As Gangaji says, *Im selling water down by the river*, and then laughs.  Osho always ended a lesson with a dirty joke, in order to keep his followers from taking him too seriously.

Honesty is called for, as much as humility.  If you have had a satori or nirvana experience, just say so, state the facts as you know them to be.  If you arent sure then it was kensho, which is still a good sign. 

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Reply from esoteric
Nov.05.2012
08:55AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

 

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

 

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

"
.........

You can determine it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146025
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.05.2012
08:59AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

"
.........

"
.........

It always seems to be those who are not awakened who want to challenge those who say they are, by some test of some sort. 

"
.........

If you see anything as a challenge or a test, then you have yourself created the challenge or test.

In bodhi, there is no such thing.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.05.2012
09:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

It always seems to be those who are not awakened who want to challenge those who say they are, by some test of some sort.

"
.........

Being itself is an eternal challenge and test. In bodhi, one passes through this with ease, so that there is never resistance and never a problem.

Like a child who has mastered multiplication, he is perfectly happy to answer that six times seven is forty-two, as many times as it is asked.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.05.2012
11:21AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

 

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

 

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

"
.........

It is so easy. The way they talk. If you talk you can't hide it. Even the teachers when they talk they can't hide it...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146052
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