This is not a place for learning or teaching.

Its a place for people to get together who probably dont have many other like minded people to talk to.

yawn

Quote: "That would be seeing. "
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I read as That would be interesting.

Quote: "Unlike in the other forum their topic and responses are like books.
I really don't know if they are confusing people.
"
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What does it matter.  We ponder and ponder,

and then suddenly, instantly, it all comes clear,

and then we wonder at the wonder of it all.

Quote: "leoj99 is lacking in skill to SPARK DISCUSSIONS. "
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The things leoj99 has been quoting are not for sharing, or discussion really.

They are for internalizing, not externalizing.

Quoting is like driving down the wrong way on the autobahn.

It will get you nowhere fast.

If anyone thought or meditated about it for a few minutes, it should be obvious that you can’t test whether someone is ‘enlightened’ or not over the internet. So trying to do so is a waste of time.

Do you think an actual Zen master would test someone over the internet?  Of course not, he’d insist on meeting them in person. It’s the only way.

How can you determine whether someone is enlightened or even what state they’re at just by reading some words they’ve typed onto a screen, words that can be misunderstood and often are even when expressed in clear English?

It always seems to be those who are not awakened who want to challenge those who say they are, by some test of some sort.  They think someone is claiming to have an elevated position over them, and they dont like that.

But being awakened isnt an elevated position.  Someone who is a bonofide Zen Master in a Monastery has the elevated position of being a Master in a Monastery, but not in being awakened.  Being awakened makes you the equal of all things: equally unimportant.

It could be said its a trap.  One seeks to become awakened thinking it is an elevated position.  But by the time one realizes it is not elevated its too late, they are already awakened.

Someone may conclude that they are awakened, or even fake it, but it isnt long before they show their true colors.  We actually had one guy show up here claiming to be enlightened.  When he was rebuffed he said, *Im enlightened.  You should all be down on your knees kissing my feet and worshiping me*.  Yeah, right, he wasnt around long.

Usually if someone seeks to draw self-importance from being enlightened, you can be pretty sure they are not.  Even those who make a living at it, like Osho or Gangaji, have an aura of humility even while those who seek to draw from their well seek to elevate them.  As Gangaji says, *Im selling water down by the river*, and then laughs.  Osho always ended a lesson with a dirty joke, in order to keep his followers from taking him too seriously.

Honesty is called for, as much as humility.  If you have had a satori or nirvana experience, just say so, state the facts as you know them to be.  If you arent sure then it was kensho, which is still a good sign.