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  There was an old woman in China who had supported a monk for over twenty years. She had built a little hut for him and fed him while he was meditating. Finally she wondered just what progress he had made in all this time. To find out, she... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: PLAYING WITH SIGHT
vertical line Posted on Nov.06.2012 @ 07:28PM EDT by QuantumZen
I just started doing zazen. I am sitting in my room, counting breaths and not thinking about anything (I find it easier than some people say). As I am sitting, I am watching a suitcase of mine on the floor (it is just a meter from me, and a good point to focus eyesight). After several minutes my eyes don't recognize the visual information anymore (they get used to it and stop processing it). Then strange things start to happen. Sometimes it gets dark and only when I move my eyes I get stimulus again. The most interesting thing is watching that suitcase, because it casts a few centimeter long shadow. While I watch the shadow I start seeing frame of light around the suitcase (I joked to my friends, that it was suitcase from heaven). It happens because of that non-processing of visual information and contrast between shadowy part of the floor and lighted.

Finally my question is. Is it wrong to play with that suitcase and my vision? I mean to say, that I seem to be distracted from normal zazen and doing suitcase zazen.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email QuantumZen
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.06.2012
07:39PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Leave it as it is. If you want to have fun with meditation there are plenty of "meditators" you can play with.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146160
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Reply from QuantumZen
Nov.06.2012
07:45PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line I will. I was just wondering will it help me to reach kensho. I understand Buddhism teachings with my mind and try to live a zen life (When you eat, you eat). But it is not in my blood just yet.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146162
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.06.2012
07:47PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I'm just trying to bounce pass the seriousness to you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146163
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.06.2012
08:05PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Nobody likes to get schooled.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146168
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Reply from QuantumZen
Nov.06.2012
08:07PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line I am nobody xD
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146169
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.06.2012
08:13PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146170
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.06.2012
08:18PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Hahaha! ...It will give us experience before the subject. Makes for light reading, though.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146171
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.06.2012
08:27PM EDT 
vertical line Light reading for those fine evening dumps. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146177
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.06.2012
08:28PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Universal Sight
Silent Witness
Body & Mind Together
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146178
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Reply from starduster
Nov.07.2012
03:52AM EDT 
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Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146194
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
04:05AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

Are you advising him. I smell something fishy...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146195
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Reply from starduster
Nov.07.2012
05:23AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

Are you advising him. I smell something fishy...
"
.........

"
.........

Are you advising him. I smell something fishy...
"
.........

No, I had no intent to advise....  Just a passing comment.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146205
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.07.2012
06:18AM EDT 
vertical line Sit and say nothing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146209
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.07.2012
11:45AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.


.........

Are you advising him. I smell something fishy...

"
.........

Advice?? If you take it that way then yes.
If you chooose to ignore it then it was just another story from a crazy old man.
Either way, you do what you want and stop passing judgement on others.
You have yet to understand yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146238
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.07.2012
01:14PM EDT 
vertical line Get yer hahas out, have you no shame?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146241
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.07.2012
02:19PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Get yer hahas out, have you no shame?"
.........

Right again Joe. Humour's the way to tackle Leo.  He don't take no advice or give it.
He just catch people out ha ha ha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146242
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.07.2012
09:02PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Get yer hahas out, have you no shame?"
.........

Hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146246
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
12:06AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146255
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Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.08.2012
12:35AM EDT 
Email 1Zenworld
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........                                  The main thing don't loss sight of your breath. Center your breath in the center of your chest.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146259
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
12:45AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........                                  The main thing don't loss sight of your breath. Center your breath in the center of your chest.
"
.........

No, trying to "center your breathing" somewhere is not recommended, particularly not the chest. In zazen, don't try to control breathing, just observe it. Counting breaths will help keep attention on it. Breathing is autonomic. Attention to breathing is "attention to breathing", not "controlling breathing."

Sitting zazen is known to be related to balancing the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Together they're part of the autonomic nervous system. If breathing stops, then that means autonomic breathing has been turned off in favor of consciously controlled breathing. Then, when consciousness goes, so does the breathing. This is not good. Turning off autonomic breathing is bad. If it happens easily, or without intending it, then sitting zazen alone is not a good idea, and it's recommended to sit with a Zen teacher or other experienced zazen practitioners present.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
05:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........

You are a master at *doing* zazen.  Which cracks me up.

I see a baby with a big ice cream or candy mess all over his face, and see joy.

You see a mess to be cleaned up.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146281
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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
05:48AM EDT 
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I forget to breathe because I become so relaxed and at peace that I forget my body completely.  I forget being anywhere, or doing anything.

I count that as a success, as far as sitting is concerned.  The whole idea is to relax.

Youre far far far from anything resembling relaxation, you poor demented anal retentive poser.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146282
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
09:08AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "The practice of Zazen is the awareness of breathe ... Let go of thought
Use your breathe as a lifeline to your awareness
Giving focus to your sight is like chasing thoughts.
Relax and let it go. Don't be distracted. Return to breathe.

Eventually, you want to have good attention and concentration to remain on breathe
So, that thoughts naturally stop and you find the void ... emptiness from which all things arise.
Equanimity and clarity arises and becomes your life.
Then, it will happen ... when you are hungry, you eat, when you are thirsty, you drink.

Wait, I'm sorry. What was your question again ... hahaha

"
.........

When sitting I stop everything except breathing, which I just observe.

Id stop breathing too, except that is not an option.

Sometimes though I forget to breathe, until I run out of oxygen and feel a panic reaction from my body, so I start again, until I forget again.

When that first began to happen I was concerned I might suffocate, but I have become comfortable with the inevitable forgetting to breathe and starting again routine.

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........

"
.........

You forget to breathe because you can't stay awake and hold attention on the breathing. That's okay, it happens sometimes when one first begins to practice zazen. It just means that more practice is needed.

By the way, when you sit, is your back straight? Are your eyes open? Do you keep your hands in the correct mudra? These things make a big difference in developing the ability to keep awake attention.
"
.........

You are a master at *doing* zazen.  Which cracks me up.

I see a baby with a big ice cream or candy mess all over his face, and see joy.

You see a mess to be cleaned up.

"
.........

No. I see a man who forgets to breathe when practicing zazen, and suddenly wakes up struggling for breath.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
09:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I forget to breathe because I become so relaxed and at peace that I forget my body completely.  I forget being anywhere, or doing anything.

I count that as a success, as far as sitting is concerned.  The whole idea is to relax.

Youre far far far from anything resembling relaxation, you poor demented anal retentive poser.

"
.........

There is no "whole idea" in sitting zazen. Zazen is not relaxing. It's sitting with back straight and mind concentrated on sitting.

It's like a violin. If the strings are too tight, they will break. If they are too loose, they will not play.

You have confused "not-doing" as a goal of zazen, and think that "not-doing" has something to do with relaxation. So, you stop breathing, and the body panics saying, "Wake up, you fool!" That is not successful sitting. Just sit, and watch your breathing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146295
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