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TOPIC: INSIGHTS IN ZEN |
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Posted on Nov.07.2012 @ 12:38AM EDT by esoteric
When Zen students attain some insights (kensho), they immediately want to talk about it, and explain what they understand. This is okay sometimes. But this is still just intellectual Zen, or conceptual Zen, and is not complete attainment.
Be careful with insights. Sometimes people get stuck on them and repeat the same things for many, many years, with no actual change in their quality of life, behavior, or understanding.
It's like walking. After so long, finally you move one foot forward and get so happy you forget that you have another foot to move forward. And another. And another. So, don't get attached to any of your steps, or you'll still look like a person who can't walk.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
01:09AM EDT
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Maybe you are referring to fake zen students...lol..
In our lineage they never do that. In fact they keep silent about it.
They may be asked to share after the retreat when they were confirmed the kensho experience but they talk in general terms. They never go into details...lol
Maybe zen students in zen forums who think they have kensho by themselves...lol
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.07.2012
01:16AM EDT
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Quote: "Maybe you are referring to fake zen students...lol..
In our lineage they never do that. In fact they keep silent about it.
They may be asked to share after the retreat when they were confirmed the kensho experience but they talk in general terms. They never go into details...lol
Maybe zen students in zen forums who think they have kensho by themselves...lol
"
.........
You are talking about what you were taught in your "lineage." I'm talking about people in general. Is there such a thing as a "fake Zen student"?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
01:18AM EDT
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Yep.. the abound the Zen forums...lol |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
01:20AM EDT
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Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.07.2012
01:21AM EDT
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Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
What are you trying to prove?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
01:56AM EDT
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I am not trying to prove anything... I am just telling my observation...lol |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.07.2012
02:35AM EDT
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Well I call those you described in your topic to like and too eager to talk about the kensho experience as fake zen students. I think their kensho is fake so they want to talk about it.
If they really serious zen students they keep their kensho experience secret. Because the nature of true insights in zen cannot be told in words.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.07.2012
06:24AM EDT
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Wow - I love the smell of books in the morning. |
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Reply from starduster
Nov.07.2012
08:33AM EDT
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Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.07.2012
11:25AM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*. "
.........
After Kensho, the ego comes back with a vengence. It becomes a very difficult time to get through without help or guidance.
After satori, I have no idea what goes on ... only that it is not the end of the journey.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.07.2012
11:49PM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*. "
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
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Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.08.2012
12:01AM EDT
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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 5:41 PM
“1. Accept everything just the way it is.
2. Do not seek pleasure for its own sake.
3. Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.
4. Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
5. Be detached from desire your whole life long.
6. Do not regret what you have done.
7. Never be jealous.
8. Never let yourself be saddened by a separation.
9. Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself nor others.
10. Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.
11. In all things have no preferences.
12. Be indifferent to where you live.
13. Do not pursue the taste of good food.
14. Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.
15. Do not act following customary beliefs.
16. Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.
17. Do not fear death.
18. Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age.
19. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.
20. You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honour.
21. Never stray from the Way.”
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
12:27AM EDT
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Wondering how did you know it was kensho experience. Why are you so sure it was kensho. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
12:28AM EDT
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Quote: "
Wednesday, November 7, 2012 5:41 PM
“1. Accept everything just the way it is.
2. Do not seek pleasure for its own sake.
3. Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.
4. Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
5. Be detached from desire your whole life long.
6. Do not regret what you have done.
7. Never be jealous.
8. Never let yourself be saddened by a separation.
9. Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself nor others.
10. Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.
11. In all things have no preferences.
12. Be indifferent to where you live.
13. Do not pursue the taste of good food.
14. Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.
15. Do not act following customary beliefs.
16. Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.
17. Do not fear death.
18. Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age.
19. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.
20. You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honour.
21. Never stray from the Way.”
"
.........
I think these are too long to remember. It is more than double the ten commandments.
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Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.08.2012
12:32AM EDT
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But you can learn. |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
12:49AM EDT
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Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
You can learn the list. But how do you fulfill the list?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
12:50AM EDT
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It doesn't mean that if you had visions that are seemed to be earth shaking that you had kensho experience. Even if your body trembled and you almost died it does not mean that that is a kensho experience. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
12:51AM EDT
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Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
12:53AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
"
.........
Is there a single thing in this world that Zen is not concerned with?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
01:03AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
"
.........
Is there a single thing in this world that Zen is not concerned with?
"
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I know that zen is concerned with everything but memorizing dos and don'ts loses the spontanuity of Zen. Zen is never premeditated.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
01:19AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
"
.........
Is there a single thing in this world that Zen is not concerned with?
"
.........
I know that zen is concerned with everything but memorizing dos and don'ts loses the spontanuity of Zen. Zen is never premeditated.
"
.........
Your Zen is premeditated with ideas about what Zen is and isn't. You lost the spontaneity. Don't blame the list of do's and don'ts.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
01:22AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
"
.........
Is there a single thing in this world that Zen is not concerned with?
"
.........
I know that zen is concerned with everything but memorizing dos and don'ts loses the spontanuity of Zen. Zen is never premeditated.
"
.........
Your Zen is premeditated with ideas about what Zen is and isn't. You lost the spontaneity. Don't blame the list of do's and don'ts.
"
.........
Well it looks like the bible and the Ten Commandments doubled...lol
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
01:28AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
I don't think Zen is concerned with those dos and don'ts.
"
.........
Is there a single thing in this world that Zen is not concerned with?
"
.........
I know that zen is concerned with everything but memorizing dos and don'ts loses the spontanuity of Zen. Zen is never premeditated.
"
.........
Your Zen is premeditated with ideas about what Zen is and isn't. You lost the spontaneity. Don't blame the list of do's and don'ts.
"
.........
Well it looks like the bible and the Ten Commandments doubled...lol
"
.........
Then memorize it twice.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.08.2012
02:11AM EDT
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My memory is not good especially when it comes to dos and don'ts...lol |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
02:13AM EDT
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Quote: "My memory is not good especially when it comes to dos and don'ts...lol
"
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Then forget it. :-)
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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
05:25AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*.
"
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
......... "
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
.........
So quick to judge. Just so you know, your opinion is valueless, nada, squat. Just like mine.
What I experienced in satori/nirrvana, whatever you want to call it, was nothingness. Actually, I was not there. I was someone else. I did not exist as the person I know as me, and never had. I was wholly that other person, in the Void, and no one else, and nothing else, had ever existed, at least not in my recollection.
But although alone in the Void, I had an unlimited capacity to create within the Void, within myself. And complete control over everything created, naturally, since I was creating everything in an ongoing manner. Nothing past tense about it.
The only problem was that since I was creating everything none of it could surprise me, and therefore no one that I created could keep me company. Which left me with a feeling of lonliness and sorrow of infinite and eternal proportions.
Now, whether that experience answered all my questions, or simply eliminated them, or whether it simply doesnt matter....
It doesnt matter, esoteric, I dont think you have the capacity to understand. To you, everything is something for you to judge, somethng upon which to base an opinion, etc, thats your buddha nature, and thats fine too. |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
09:02AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*.
"
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
......... "
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
.........
So quick to judge. Just so you know, your opinion is valueless, nada, squat. Just like mine.
What I experienced in satori/nirrvana, whatever you want to call it, was nothingness. Actually, I was not there. I was someone else. I did not exist as the person I know as me, and never had. I was wholly that other person, in the Void, and no one else, and nothing else, had ever existed, at least not in my recollection.
But although alone in the Void, I had an unlimited capacity to create within the Void, within myself. And complete control over everything created, naturally, since I was creating everything in an ongoing manner. Nothing past tense about it.
The only problem was that since I was creating everything none of it could surprise me, and therefore no one that I created could keep me company. Which left me with a feeling of lonliness and sorrow of infinite and eternal proportions.
Now, whether that experience answered all my questions, or simply eliminated them, or whether it simply doesnt matter....
It doesnt matter, esoteric, I dont think you have the capacity to understand. To you, everything is something for you to judge, somethng upon which to base an opinion, etc, thats your buddha nature, and thats fine too. "
.........
You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
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Reply from starduster
Nov.08.2012
09:05AM EDT
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You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
----------------------------------------------
1) There were no questions left to answer.
2) Gee, Im here at a Zen Forum.
3) Being.
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Reply from BlankName
Nov.08.2012
06:43PM EDT
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To be is to interbe. Reaching the insight of interbeing is remarkable. |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.08.2012
07:54PM EDT
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Quote: "
You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
----------------------------------------------
1) There were no questions left to answer.
2) Gee, Im here at a Zen Forum.
3) Being.
"
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
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Reply from BlankName
Nov.08.2012
08:09PM EDT
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Quote: "To be is to interbe. Reaching the insight of interbeing is remarkable."
.........
It will be a great benefit to have the insight of interbeing. Essentially coming to the wholeness of the Self, interconnected-related, and ideally reaching closer to the globalization of the world. Through your meditation, looking deeply, zazen, does this and maintains this in You. Living on the level of interbeing is very much good in and of itself. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.09.2012
01:18AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "Most of the time they make very long posts.. and even quote so many quotes...
It seems they are trying to prove they are really enlightened.. or they had kensho experience..
"
.........
After a kensho experience, people are usually bewildered by it. They tell other people about it because its remarkable and in the hopes that someone may help them to unravel the mystery behind it.
After a satori or nirvana experience, there is no such need. It is so fulfilling in itself that no help is needed from anyone. Whether awakening or not, the understanding attained answers all questions, and makes the person self-sufficient, so what anyone else may think of it does not really matter.
Except to the other people, perhaps, and they no longer matter either. They make think that what they think has some bearing on you, but it really doesnt. Its just that they are still all about *thinking*.
"
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
......... "
.........
You had satori and all your questions were answered? Is that why you keep telling everyone about it?
Ideas, thoughts, experiences, answers...all of this that is verbalized is the *thinking* that "they are still all about." So, what are you all about?
"
.........
So quick to judge. Just so you know, your opinion is valueless, nada, squat. Just like mine.
What I experienced in satori/nirrvana, whatever you want to call it, was nothingness. Actually, I was not there. I was someone else. I did not exist as the person I know as me, and never had. I was wholly that other person, in the Void, and no one else, and nothing else, had ever existed, at least not in my recollection.
But although alone in the Void, I had an unlimited capacity to create within the Void, within myself. And complete control over everything created, naturally, since I was creating everything in an ongoing manner. Nothing past tense about it.
The only problem was that since I was creating everything none of it could surprise me, and therefore no one that I created could keep me company. Which left me with a feeling of lonliness and sorrow of infinite and eternal proportions.
Now, whether that experience answered all my questions, or simply eliminated them, or whether it simply doesnt matter....
It doesnt matter, esoteric, I dont think you have the capacity to understand. To you, everything is something for you to judge, somethng upon which to base an opinion, etc, thats your buddha nature, and thats fine too. "
.........
So what did you create?
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Reply from starduster
Nov.09.2012
05:41AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "
You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
----------------------------------------------
1) There were no questions left to answer.
2) Gee, Im here at a Zen Forum.
3) Being.
"
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
......... "
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
.........
Why do you keep asking *why*, over and over again, like a small child who has figured out that the more you do that the more you irritate adults.
Look inside yourself for your own answers, for a change, if you can. |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.09.2012
06:56AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
----------------------------------------------
1) There were no questions left to answer.
2) Gee, Im here at a Zen Forum.
3) Being.
"
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
......... "
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
.........
Why do you keep asking *why*, over and over again, like a small child who has figured out that the more you do that the more you irritate adults.
Look inside yourself for your own answers, for a change, if you can. "
.........
I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
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146350
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.09.2012
10:14PM EDT
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Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
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146395
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
02:29AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
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146400
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Reply from starduster
Nov.10.2012
04:54AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
You have a strange way of answering everything defensively with accusations, without actually answering any of the questions asked. Maybe next you could answer the questions asked?
1. Were all of your questions answered in satori?
2. Why do you keep telling about it?
3. If you are not about thinking, then what are you all about?
----------------------------------------------
1) There were no questions left to answer.
2) Gee, Im here at a Zen Forum.
3) Being.
"
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
......... "
.........
So, you got everything you wanted, then!
Why are you looking backward at so many things, and looking forward to ending them?
"
.........
Why do you keep asking *why*, over and over again, like a small child who has figured out that the more you do that the more you irritate adults.
Look inside yourself for your own answers, for a change, if you can.
"
.........
I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
......... "
.........
I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
Then mind your own business, tend your own garden, and stir your own pot. |
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146406
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Reply from starduster
Nov.10.2012
05:04AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Satori is a Japanese word which means *understanding*. To me it means *understanding that there is no Truth, just nothingness, which denies all Truth*. But that may change with continued growth, thats just where I am now on my path.
Im remembering a scene in a movie where an old man tells a young man that most people live their lives as if clinging to a pole in a high wind, afraid to let go of what they believe in, even for a second, lest they be blown away, and that greater personal development is attained when you can stand into the wind without hanging on to anything.
Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.
With understanding, there is no knowledge.
With knowledge there is no understanding.
Wanting or needing to know what is right or true is like clinging to a pole in a high wind. That may work, but then you will never know, or understand, where the wind can take you.
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146407
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
05:10AM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Satori is a Japanese word which means *understanding*. To me it means *understanding that there is no Truth, just nothingness, which denies all Truth*. But that may change with continued growth, thats just where I am now on my path.
Im remembering a scene in a movie where an old man tells a young man that most people live their lives as if clinging to a pole in a high wind, afraid to let go of what they believe in, even for a second, lest they be blown away, and that greater personal development is attained when you can stand into the wind without hanging on to anything.
Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.
With understanding, there is no knowledge.
With knowledge there is no understanding.
Wanting or needing to know what is right or true is like clinging to a pole in a high wind. That may work, but then you will never know, or understand, where the wind can take you.
"
.........
There is no Truth?
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146408
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.10.2012
06:46AM EDT
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No answer came the loud reply. |
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146418
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
07:46AM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Satori is a Japanese word which means *understanding*. To me it means *understanding that there is no Truth, just nothingness, which denies all Truth*. But that may change with continued growth, thats just where I am now on my path.
Im remembering a scene in a movie where an old man tells a young man that most people live their lives as if clinging to a pole in a high wind, afraid to let go of what they believe in, even for a second, lest they be blown away, and that greater personal development is attained when you can stand into the wind without hanging on to anything.
Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.
With understanding, there is no knowledge.
With knowledge there is no understanding.
Wanting or needing to know what is right or true is like clinging to a pole in a high wind. That may work, but then you will never know, or understand, where the wind can take you.
"
.........
Blown all around, backward and forward, by strong winds of wanting and needing.
If living before thinking, there's no pole and no winds.
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146428
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Reply from starduster
Nov.10.2012
08:43AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Satori is a Japanese word which means *understanding*. To me it means *understanding that there is no Truth, just nothingness, which denies all Truth*. But that may change with continued growth, thats just where I am now on my path.
Im remembering a scene in a movie where an old man tells a young man that most people live their lives as if clinging to a pole in a high wind, afraid to let go of what they believe in, even for a second, lest they be blown away, and that greater personal development is attained when you can stand into the wind without hanging on to anything.
Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.
With understanding, there is no knowledge.
With knowledge there is no understanding.
Wanting or needing to know what is right or true is like clinging to a pole in a high wind. That may work, but then you will never know, or understand, where the wind can take you.
"
.........
There is no Truth?
"
......... "
.........
There is no Truth?
"
.........
None that I know of. |
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146430
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Reply from shayne
Nov.10.2012
08:47AM EDT
→Email shayne
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the everlasting and everchanging truth lies before your eyes.
starduster is no the seat of reality.
period.
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146432
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.10.2012
09:42AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Sorry, I look for the humor in every situation cause I like laughter.
The truth is only true for you if it is your truth.
Handling the truth isn't an easy thing due to the ego.
The ego doesn't die or fade away. It does assert itself again and again.
Well, nevermind my ranting. Just go on asking questions.
But, don't forget to practice. Sitting in perfection is the way of Buddha.
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146440
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.10.2012
10:38AM EDT
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The gospel untruth. |
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146443
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
11:15AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Sorry, I look for the humor in every situation cause I like laughter.
The truth is only true for you if it is your truth.
Handling the truth isn't an easy thing due to the ego.
The ego doesn't die or fade away. It does assert itself again and again.
Well, nevermind my ranting. Just go on asking questions.
But, don't forget to practice. Sitting in perfection is the way of Buddha.
"
.........
So whats the use of practicing if you are just ranting more...lol
Whats the use of practicing if there is no truth.
Whats the use of practicing if the ego stays forever.
I thought you said everything die and fades away?...lol
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146446
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
05:28PM EDT
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Not everything. Keep watching. |
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146469
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
08:08PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Satori is a Japanese word which means *understanding*. To me it means *understanding that there is no Truth, just nothingness, which denies all Truth*. But that may change with continued growth, thats just where I am now on my path.
Im remembering a scene in a movie where an old man tells a young man that most people live their lives as if clinging to a pole in a high wind, afraid to let go of what they believe in, even for a second, lest they be blown away, and that greater personal development is attained when you can stand into the wind without hanging on to anything.
Its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.
With understanding, there is no knowledge.
With knowledge there is no understanding.
Wanting or needing to know what is right or true is like clinging to a pole in a high wind. That may work, but then you will never know, or understand, where the wind can take you.
"
.........
There is no Truth?
"
......... "
.........
There is no Truth?
"
.........
None that I know of. "
.........
The sky is clear, except when obscured by clouds. That is truth.
Why do clouds obscure the clear sky?
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146528
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Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.10.2012
08:20PM EDT
→Email 1Zenworld
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Quote: "Quote: "But you can learn."
.........
You can learn the list. But how do you fulfill the list?
"
......... Live it. Know it. Understand it. |
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146532
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.10.2012
10:15PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Sorry, I look for the humor in every situation cause I like laughter.
The truth is only true for you if it is your truth.
Handling the truth isn't an easy thing due to the ego.
The ego doesn't die or fade away. It does assert itself again and again.
Well, nevermind my ranting. Just go on asking questions.
But, don't forget to practice. Sitting in perfection is the way of Buddha.
"
.........
So whats the use of practicing if you are just ranting more...lol
Whats the use of practicing if there is no truth.
Whats the use of practicing if the ego stays forever.
I thought you said everything die and fades away?...lol
"
.........
\
No, everything that is made up of aggregates will change. Your body and its mind are aggreagtes and will chnage.
What is the use of practicing?? Good question. Now answer it.
If you have no answer then that is your answer. It is your truth.
If you find a good answer then that is your truth..
There is truth ... but it depends on where you stand or where you walk.
What is the use of practicing if the ego stays? It goes through changes and you end up with a life to live and a world to explore.
But, that is my truth and not yours. Go practice and find your own ... hahaha
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146547
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
10:23PM EDT
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Now, there's a man who knows what he wants, and knows how to get it. :-) |
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146549
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
11:10PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Sorry, I look for the humor in every situation cause I like laughter.
The truth is only true for you if it is your truth.
Handling the truth isn't an easy thing due to the ego.
The ego doesn't die or fade away. It does assert itself again and again.
Well, nevermind my ranting. Just go on asking questions.
But, don't forget to practice. Sitting in perfection is the way of Buddha.
"
.........
So whats the use of practicing if you are just ranting more...lol
Whats the use of practicing if there is no truth.
Whats the use of practicing if the ego stays forever.
I thought you said everything die and fades away?...lol
"
.........
\
No, everything that is made up of aggregates will change. Your body and its mind are aggreagtes and will chnage.
What is the use of practicing?? Good question. Now answer it.
If you have no answer then that is your answer. It is your truth.
If you find a good answer then that is your truth..
There is truth ... but it depends on where you stand or where you walk.
What is the use of practicing if the ego stays? It goes through changes and you end up with a life to live and a world to explore.
But, that is my truth and not yours. Go practice and find your own ... hahaha
"
.........
I smell something fishy. I think you got this aggregates thing from someone else who is your idol...lol
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146550
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
11:12PM EDT
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Is your mind is made of aggregates too? |
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146551
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.11.2012
12:05AM EDT
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Quote: "Is your mind is made of aggregates too?
"
.........
Does your mind change?
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146555
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.11.2012
12:11AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm not the one looking backward and forward, so I can't ask myself "Why are you doing that?"
"
.........
You can ask yourself but please don't ask others ... it won't help to search outside of yourself for the answers.
You want the truth ... you can't handle the truth ...
Yes, yes I want the truth ... I demand the truth ... then go ask yourself for the truth ... hahaha
"
.........
So why can't you ask others since they are saying they know the truth. They have even a satori experience and they say all questions are answered.
What truth that can't be handled?
"
.........
Sorry, I look for the humor in every situation cause I like laughter.
The truth is only true for you if it is your truth.
Handling the truth isn't an easy thing due to the ego.
The ego doesn't die or fade away. It does assert itself again and again.
Well, nevermind my ranting. Just go on asking questions.
But, don't forget to practice. Sitting in perfection is the way of Buddha.
"
.........
So whats the use of practicing if you are just ranting more...lol
Whats the use of practicing if there is no truth.
Whats the use of practicing if the ego stays forever.
I thought you said everything die and fades away?...lol
"
.........
\
No, everything that is made up of aggregates will change. Your body and its mind are aggreagtes and will chnage.
What is the use of practicing?? Good question. Now answer it.
If you have no answer then that is your answer. It is your truth.
If you find a good answer then that is your truth..
There is truth ... but it depends on where you stand or where you walk.
What is the use of practicing if the ego stays? It goes through changes and you end up with a life to live and a world to explore.
But, that is my truth and not yours. Go practice and find your own ... hahaha
"
.........
I smell something fishy. I think you got this aggregates thing from someone else who is your idol...lol
"
.........
He's using a word that he learned, to describe something he has seen. I learned a lot of words from dictionaries and books. I learned what those words really mean when I saw what they pointed to in daily living. That doesn't make the dictionaries or books my idols. Just, places I learned language so I could talk to people about what I see in daily living. Language is wonderful, when it can be used to help people. Don't you think so?
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146556
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
08:22AM EDT
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Binary, fractal, self-replicating algorithm. |
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146621
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