history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Thursday Jul 31 2014 05:26AM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  One day a monk paid a visit to Tinh Khong (1091-1170), a Vietnamese Zen master,
who was of the tenth generation of Vo Ngon Thong lineage, and asked:
-From old days it was talked about "direct pointing", what does that mean?
The... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WHO TALKS ABOUT ZEN AND ENLIGHTENMENT?
vertical line Posted on Nov.10.2012 @ 03:30PM EDT by leoj99
Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think..

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from QuantumZen
Nov.10.2012
04:10PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line Language is a medium. Buddha could have stayed on that mountain under the tree and kept his mouth shut. Yet he understood that it wouldn't help anyone. And he talked. He talked a lot. :) Stone Buddhas aren't enlightened :) But, this is off course only my THOUGHT.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146463
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.10.2012
04:36PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line The sky is a pure blue.  The meadows are wet. It has stopped raining.  The birds are singing.  Lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146464
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
05:28PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The sky is a pure blue.  The meadows are wet. It has stopped raining.  The birds are singing.  Lol "
.........

Are you suggesting you are enlightened... hahaha..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146468
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
06:04PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The sky is a pure blue.  The meadows are wet. It has stopped raining.  The birds are singing.  Lol "
.........

What is your true nature?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146484
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.10.2012
06:16PM EDT 
Email 1Zenworld
vertical line
Just LIVE. You can't upload Love, You can't download Time, You can't Google all of Life's answers. You must actually LIVE your life!.. Unknown
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146487
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from 1Zenworld
Nov.10.2012
06:24PM EDT 
Email 1Zenworld
vertical line The longer you live the more you realize that forgiveness,consideration, and kindness are three of the great secrets of life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146491
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Nov.10.2012
06:32PM EDT 
vertical line

Actually, I would have to say that three of the great things in life are:

to foster lack of expectations

to develop one's sense of humour, not necessarily expressed

and to acknowledge the absurdity of ourselves and some of our foibles and ruses

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146493
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
06:32PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think..
"
.........

Talking about Zen and enlightenment is no problem. Thinking conceptually and having desires about Zen and enlightenment is a big problem.

Someone who never talks about Zen and enlightenment, even when asked about it, is just someone who doesn't know how to answer.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146492
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.10.2012
09:00PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think..
"
.........

Talking about Zen and enlightenment is no problem. Thinking conceptually and having desires about Zen and enlightenment is a big problem.

Someone who never talks about Zen and enlightenment, even when asked about it, is just someone who doesn't know how to answer.
"
.........

When you talk about zen you express your thoughts about zen.

But it is different if you are talking about your zen experience.

So in effect it is alright to talk zen if you have the experience.
But it seems to me most who are talking are just expressing their thoughts about zen..lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146537
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.10.2012
11:57PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think..
"
.........

Talking about Zen and enlightenment is no problem. Thinking conceptually and having desires about Zen and enlightenment is a big problem.

Someone who never talks about Zen and enlightenment, even when asked about it, is just someone who doesn't know how to answer.
"
.........

When you talk about zen you express your thoughts about zen.

But it is different if you are talking about your zen experience.

So in effect it is alright to talk zen if you have the experience.
But it seems to me most who are talking are just expressing their thoughts about zen..lol
"
.........

Yeah, well...it's the whole banana thing. You know...

I can describe a banana to you. I can show you a picture of a banana. I can show you how to eat a banana. But you're not going to know the banana until you take a bite and taste it for yourself.

Just watch out for people who saw or heard all those other things, and try to tell you about the banana without actually tasting it for themselves.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146553
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.11.2012
06:03AM EDT 
vertical line

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think..


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Awakening is a phenomena reported in many religions, probably dating back to prehistoric times.  Siddhartha Gautama Buddha is the most famous awakened person in history, and he said he was awakened, and he structured his life around being an awakened one.

So your premise does not hold water.

Awakening does not make someone different, or special, it just gives them a different perspective. 

If someone has had a satori or nirvana experience, they should just say so, simply, truthfully, and make no bones about it.  The world is full of awakened people.

If someone is not sure if they have had a satori or nirvana experience, then it was kensho.  And that is good too.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146597
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.11.2012
06:04AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "The sky is a pure blue.  The meadows are wet. It has stopped raining.  The birds are singing.  Lol "
.........

Are you suggesting you are enlightened... hahaha..
"
.........

I haven't suggested anything, Leo  ..

Look who's talking ha ha ha :D

Humour is essential in Zen.  Without humour Zen is hard work. 

I like a laugh ha ha ha


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146598
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.11.2012
07:43AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think.."
.........

Talking about Zen and enlightenment is no problem. Thinking conceptually and having desires about Zen and enlightenment is a big problem.

Someone who never talks about Zen and enlightenment, even when asked about it, is just someone who doesn't know how to answer.
"
.........

When you talk about zen you express your thoughts about zen.

But it is different if you are talking about your zen experience.

So in effect it is alright to talk zen if you have the experience.
But it seems to me most who are talking are just expressing their thoughts about zen..lol
"
.........

Yeah, well...it's the whole banana thing. You know...

I can describe a banana to you. I can show you a picture of a banana. I can show you how to eat a banana. But you're not going to know the banana until you take a bite and taste it for yourself.

Just watch out for people who saw or heard all those other things, and try to tell you about the banana without actually tasting it for themselves.
"
.........

And how do you know whether someone else has eaten a banana or not without meeting them face to face?  Or unless you actually witnessed them eat a banana? Lol

 

Do you claim to be able to tell from a number of words they’ve typed on a screen?

Sometimes, you just have to take someone else's word for it until you have incontrovertible proof to the contrary (whatever that could be).

If Starduster claims he's eaten a banana and knows exactly what it tastes like, maybe it's best to take his word for it. After all, he is in a better position to know than anyone else.  Then again, maybe he prefers apples.

 

Maybe the two of you should arrange to actually witness each other eat a banana and sort the whole thing out for once and all.  :)


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146608
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
07:45AM EDT 
vertical line Watch out for the banana.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146609
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
07:53AM EDT 
vertical line The banana should keep his mouth shut.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146612
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.11.2012
11:43AM EDT 
vertical line Actually I don't like banana. I like watermelon..

Stop thinking.. just eat watermelon..

Watermelon is good because if you are thinking while eating it you drown...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146673
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
02:55PM EDT 
vertical line You are the drowning man who will come back to continue his story.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146693
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Nov.11.2012
03:06PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line What do you think..


I think I like hamburgers with cheese and onions and ketchup.
Haven't had a hamburger in six months.
It is like quitting cigarettes ... I'm having withdrawals ... hahah
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146704
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
03:08PM EDT 
vertical line It pays to Ad block.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146706
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Nov.11.2012
03:19PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line It pays to block ads??
No, don't do it ... ahahahah
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146715
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.11.2012
04:52PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Who Talks about Zen and Enlightenment?

I think those who are enlightened keep their mouth shut. If ever they talk they talk about the sky, the meadows, the rain and the birds.
Never talks about zen and enlightenment.

So those who talk so much about zen and enlightenment must not be enlightened.

What do you think.."
.........

Talking about Zen and enlightenment is no problem. Thinking conceptually and having desires about Zen and enlightenment is a big problem.

Someone who never talks about Zen and enlightenment, even when asked about it, is just someone who doesn't know how to answer.
"
.........

When you talk about zen you express your thoughts about zen.

But it is different if you are talking about your zen experience.

So in effect it is alright to talk zen if you have the experience.
But it seems to me most who are talking are just expressing their thoughts about zen..lol
"
.........

Yeah, well...it's the whole banana thing. You know...

I can describe a banana to you. I can show you a picture of a banana. I can show you how to eat a banana. But you're not going to know the banana until you take a bite and taste it for yourself.

Just watch out for people who saw or heard all those other things, and try to tell you about the banana without actually tasting it for themselves.
"
.........

And how do you know whether someone else has eaten a banana or not without meeting them face to face?  Or unless you actually witnessed them eat a banana? Lol

 

Do you claim to be able to tell from a number of words they’ve typed on a screen?

Sometimes, you just have to take someone else's word for it until you have incontrovertible proof to the contrary (whatever that could be).

If Starduster claims he's eaten a banana and knows exactly what it tastes like, maybe it's best to take his word for it. After all, he is in a better position to know than anyone else.  Then again, maybe he prefers apples.

 

Maybe the two of you should arrange to actually witness each other eat a banana and sort the whole thing out for once and all.  :)


"
.........

Did you eat the banana? That's the only way you know.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146729
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
04:55PM EDT 
vertical line Mañana banana.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146731
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:20AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line I've eaten loads of them but they never got me enlightened.

I find meditation is more effective :)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146837
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I've eaten loads of them but they never got me enlightened.

I find meditation is more effective :)
"
.........

You didn't ask about mediation. You asked how one would know if someone had eaten a banana.

So, meditation has been effective at getting you enlightened? Tell us what it is like.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146840
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:25AM EDT 
vertical line *didn't ask about meditation.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146841
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:25AM EDT 
vertical line Please.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146842
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Please."
.........

:-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146850
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:41AM EDT 
vertical line Sit back, boys. Here comes another one. And it looks like a doozie.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146851
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Nov.12.2012
09:29AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Sit back, boys. Here comes another one. And it looks like a doozie. "
.........

Please don't fart again ... the last one almost killed me .... hahahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146860
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
09:52AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Sit back, boys. Here comes another one. And it looks like a doozie. "
.........

Please don't fart again ... the last one almost killed me .... hahahaha
"
.........

I can make no guarantees. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146873
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
09:57AM EDT 
vertical line ARSE!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146877
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
09:59AM EDT 
vertical line Talks about Zen and Enlightenment.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146878
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
10:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Talks about Zen and Enlightenment."
.........

I do enjoy our little chats.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146880
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.12.2012
11:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Talks about Zen and Enlightenment."
.........

I do enjoy our little chats.
"
.........

I guess you are talking about enlightenment again...lol

Common Sam Hardy.... give it to them...you should tell about your enlightenment.. as I have heard we should in this forum..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146883
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
12:30PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Talks about Zen and Enlightenment."
.........

I do enjoy our little chats.
"
.........

I guess you are talking about enlightenment again...lol

Common Sam Hardy.... give it to them...you should tell about your enlightenment.. as I have heard we should in this forum..
"
.........

What was it like? I was transported outside myself and became one with all dharmas – and bananas, in fact with all fruit and veg, except courgettes which I don’t like anyway.  More to come.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146892
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.15.2012
05:09AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line

I forget the rest, Leo. I wasn’t there.

Seriously: what’s the point in describing one’s ‘enlightenment’ experience?

No more joking. Zen is a very serious, solemn business. Lol 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147007
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.16.2012
01:35AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

I forget the rest, Leo. I wasn’t there.

Seriously: what’s the point in describing one’s ‘enlightenment’ experience?

No more joking. Zen is a very serious, solemn business. Lol 

"
.........

But how come most Zen Masters are always laughing?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147068
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this ZEN SETTING I
by Packard
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °