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TOPIC: CATCH 22 |
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Posted on Nov.11.2012 @ 04:06AM EDT by starduster
The "Catch-22" is that "anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy."[3] Hence, pilots who request a mental fitness evaluation are sane, and therefore must fly in combat. At the same time, if an evaluation is not requested by the pilot, he will never receive one and thus can never be found insane, meaning he must also fly in combat.
Therefore, Catch-22 ensures that no pilot can ever be grounded for being insane even if he is. (Wikipedia)
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In the Movie Catch-22, the basic premise is that you cant be crazy if you think you are crazy, because if you were really crazy you wouldnt know you are crazy.
In Zen, you cant be delusional if you think you are delusional, because if you were really delusional you wouldnt know you are delusional.
So I say, its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion. Knowing that should enable you to pick your desusions carefully.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
08:30AM EDT
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Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.11.2012
03:08PM EDT
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I am ... therefore ... I will die .... no catch there ... hahaha |
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146707
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:04AM EDT
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Yes. If you mean delusional in the absolute sense then it follows that if you think you are totally delusional you are totally enlightened. Difficult to see how someone totally delusional could be aware. Then, no one is totally delusional, except perhaps a complete madman. Partially delusional, yes.
It makes sense in a way in that if you are totally aware of every remnant or trace of delusion in your mind/psyche, then you are on the brink of being enlightened or are enlightened.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:07AM EDT
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That maybe so, but it's not Catch-22. |
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:11AM EDT
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"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed." |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:19AM EDT
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Quote: "Yes. If you mean delusional in the absolute sense then it follows that if you think you are totally delusional you are totally enlightened. Difficult to see how someone totally delusional could be aware. Then, no one is totally delusional, except perhaps a complete madman. Partially delusional, yes.
It makes sense in a way in that if you are totally aware of every remnant or trace of delusion in your mind/psyche, then you are on the brink of being enlightened or are enlightened.
"
.........
Thinking delusional is still delusional.
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:20AM EDT
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Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.""
.........
No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.
Except yourself.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:24AM EDT
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Catch-22. |
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:26AM EDT
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Quote: "That maybe so, but it's not Catch-22."
.........
OK. It's Catch 23 or non catch 22. Whatever, I thought it was an insight ha ha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:27AM EDT
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Catch-22 - it's a great book. |
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:31AM EDT
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Quote: "Catch-22 - it's a great book. "
.........
I believe you. I'll add it to my list of great books I've never read all the way but started.
And that must be the 22nd time you've caught me out (not that I'm counting).
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:36AM EDT
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I have re-read Catch-22 on a number of occasions. |
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Reply from starduster
Nov.12.2012
08:59AM EDT
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Quote: "Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence. "
.........
Si, just be.... |
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
09:01AM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence. "
.........
Si, just be.... "
.........
Just be what?
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146853
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Reply from starduster
Nov.12.2012
09:03AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.""
.........
No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.
Except yourself.
"
.........
Sure, you could always kick and scream like a little girl,
as they haul you away to the stockade.
Sailors dont want to go to the brig because it is run by Marines.
Being a Sailor at the mercy of Marines is not a good idea. |
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146854
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
09:47AM EDT
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Quote: "
Quote: "Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.""
.........
No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.
Except yourself.
"
.........
Sure, you could always kick and scream like a little girl,
as they haul you away to the stockade.
Sailors dont want to go to the brig because it is run by Marines.
Being a Sailor at the mercy of Marines is not a good idea. "
.........
Is it worse than flying a dangerous mission in an airplane?
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146869
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
10:34AM EDT
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In Every Dream Home A Heartache |
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146881
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