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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CATCH 22
vertical line Posted on Nov.11.2012 @ 04:06AM EDT by starduster

The "Catch-22" is that "anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy."[3] Hence, pilots who request a mental fitness evaluation are sane, and therefore must fly in combat. At the same time, if an evaluation is not requested by the pilot, he will never receive one and thus can never be found insane, meaning he must also fly in combat.

Therefore, Catch-22 ensures that no pilot can ever be grounded for being insane even if he is. (Wikipedia)

---------------------------------------

In the Movie Catch-22, the basic premise is that you cant be crazy if you think you are crazy, because if you were really crazy you wouldnt know you are crazy.

In Zen, you cant be delusional if you think you are delusional, because if you were really delusional you wouldnt know you are delusional.

So I say, its all illusion, except what you believe in, which is delusion.  Knowing that should enable you to pick your desusions carefully.


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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.11.2012
08:30AM EDT 
vertical line Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146622
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.11.2012
03:08PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I am ...  therefore ... I will die .... no catch there ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146707
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:04AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Yes.  If you mean delusional in the absolute sense then it follows that if you think you are totally delusional you are totally enlightened. Difficult to see how someone totally delusional could be aware.  Then, no one is totally delusional, except perhaps a complete madman.  Partially delusional, yes.

It makes sense in a way in that if you are totally aware of every remnant or trace of delusion in your mind/psyche, then you are on the brink of being enlightened or are enlightened.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146832
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:07AM EDT 
vertical line That maybe so, but it's not Catch-22.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146834
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:11AM EDT 
vertical line "There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146835
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Yes.  If you mean delusional in the absolute sense then it follows that if you think you are totally delusional you are totally enlightened. Difficult to see how someone totally delusional could be aware.  Then, no one is totally delusional, except perhaps a complete madman.  Partially delusional, yes.

It makes sense in a way in that if you are totally aware of every remnant or trace of delusion in your mind/psyche, then you are on the brink of being enlightened or are enlightened.
"
.........

Thinking delusional is still delusional.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146836
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
08:20AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
"
.........

No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.

Except yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146838
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Catch-22.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146839
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:26AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "That maybe so, but it's not Catch-22."
.........

OK. It's Catch 23 or non catch 22.  Whatever, I thought it was an insight ha ha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146843
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:27AM EDT 
vertical line Catch-22 - it's a great book.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146844
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.12.2012
08:31AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Catch-22 - it's a great book. "
.........

I believe you. I'll add it to my list of great books I've never read all the way but started.

And that must be the 22nd time you've caught me out (not that I'm counting).
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146846
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
08:36AM EDT 
vertical line I have re-read Catch-22 on a number of occasions.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146848
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Reply from starduster
Nov.12.2012
08:59AM EDT 
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Quote: "Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence. "
.........

Si, just be....

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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
09:01AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Presence ... NOW - first & last & always new, as it was in the beginning without end, so shall it be in the end without beginning. No yesterday, no tomorrow, no snafu, no foldirah, as it was ten thousand years ago, as it is ten thousand years hence. "
.........

Si, just be....

"
.........

Just be what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146853
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Reply from starduster
Nov.12.2012
09:03AM EDT 
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Quote: "Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
"
.........

No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.

Except yourself.
"
......... 

Sure, you could always kick and scream like a little girl,

as they haul you away to the stockade.

Sailors dont want to go to the brig because it is run by Marines.

Being a Sailor at the mercy of Marines is not a good idea.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146854
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Reply from esoteric
Nov.12.2012
09:47AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Quote: ""There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
"
.........

No one in this universe can make you fly an airplane if you refuse.

Except yourself.
"
......... 

Sure, you could always kick and scream like a little girl,

as they haul you away to the stockade.

Sailors dont want to go to the brig because it is run by Marines.

Being a Sailor at the mercy of Marines is not a good idea.

"
.........

Is it worse than flying a dangerous mission in an airplane?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146869
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.12.2012
10:34AM EDT 
vertical line In Every Dream Home A Heartache
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 146881
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