Quote: "The west have all the ideas and concepts. The east has none.. "
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Leoj, If you dont mind are you from the east?

Quote: "What about between Chinese and Japanese?  Is there much difference? "
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Good question.ask a Chinese.

Quote: "Yep.. There is a great difference. The east does not talk.. the west like to talk..and talk and talk.. "
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i have been east and they like to talk just same as here.

but this is not my question, i ask about Zen not talking

Quote: "Note that Chan flowered in China and Zen bloomed in Japan. It seems to me that they are the traditional Zen. In the West Zen became mystified or maybe called Modern Zen.

So China and Japan are traditional while in the West it is modern Zen.
So there was many published books and became very popular in the internet. So Zen bacame popular maybe a thousand folds.
"
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so you talk and talk but still what is the differance? i not ask about tyradition, i not ask about internet, i not ask about books or popularity, i ask about Zen!!!

truth is truth, if it changes from place to place it is not truth. it is culturally created opinion.

If Zen is Zen it is Zen everywhere or it is nothing anywhere.

Zen is just a word to describe.......................the thing it describes does not change, it is and is.

I think maybe people have misunderstood me, and confuse practice or effort with ZEn. (i can practice many things, and are they all ZEn?)

Is a Rose by any other name as sweet?  of course it is :)

Everything is zen unless it is someone saying it is zen,

 if they say it is not zen then it is still zen

Whatever happened to non-duality?

A very good understanding of cultural conditioning.

Zen knows no East or West.

At the deepest level, there’s no eastern mind. There’s no western mind.

There are just deluded minds, and enlightened minds.

No mind means no mind, not no eastern mind or no western mind.

Perceived differences between East and West are nothing more than the result of cultural conditioning.

These are truths; not my truths and not my opinions.  Sorry. But it has to be said.

Then again, maybe I'm just a typical example of the western mind.

Quote: "Quote: "however that is just an opinion"
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I meant this in reference to my post. Just looking at it now I can see how I was not clear "
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oh I see, yes this was not clear, I assumed that you had your nose out of joint due to the hint of arrogance in my response

..carry on

Quote: "I meant to say, politically correct is a product of a cultural shared belief. My pc may be very different to another's.

They are still thoughts on zen, created ideas to explain what needs no explanation, apart from experience.

This duality us complicated if u make it so. "
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Just because your pc is a bit unusual, it doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, unless that is, a guy's brain power is actually proportional to the size of their pc.

Eugene Herrigel is usually credited as the first to bring awareness of Eastern Religion to the west in the 40s.

The Beatles brought back Transcendental Meditation in the 60s, which they popularized, and which some of us still practice.

Carlos Casteneda is not taken as a non-fiction writer anymore, but is thought to have written, or plagerized, to congeal a story line from a number of practices, including Zen Buddhism.  He was undoubtedly a good researcher.  One criticism of him is that while he wrote of attending an Indian Peyote session, a Mitote, he was at the time of the session checked into the university library reading materials about Mitote practices of Native Americans.  Read it as fiction, knowing that, and you can get a lot out of it.

Shunyro Suzuki is creditied with opening the first Zen Center in the US, in Southern California, of course.

Osho moved his Ashram from India to the US, but after taking over a town in Oregon, and poisioning a local salad bar for politcal purposes, the leaders of his group were arrested and he was deported. 

Over time, the list of *awakened* authors and speakers in the West has grown too large and exhaustive to address specifically.  The world is full of Buddhas, as it should be.

East has long since met West on the path of righteousness. 

Quote: "California Uber Alles."
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Not lately.

The socially based economy has proved it real worth.

Hopefully good intentions are worth something, because thats all they have left.