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  Posted on Jul.28.2009 @ 07:08PM EDT by chontri

Every created thing is like
A dream, an illusion, a bubble,
A dewdrop, a flash of lightning.
View all created things like this.

The Diamond Sutra
translated... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: BUDDHA AND CHRIST
vertical line Posted on Nov.18.2012 @ 02:12PM EDT by Sam Hardy
Is everything the Buddha and Christ ever said nothing or little more than a collection of opinions?  Or a mixture of both?

Or are they truths?

In today's politically correct world almost all spiritual truths are to be regarded as opinions.

 If you believe in the existence of God or claim to have had direct experience of
the absolute, the Ground of Being of whatever else you want to call it, many will consider that to be no more than an opinion.

Give me an example of a spiritual truth and a spiritual opinion.





Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email Sam Hardy
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Reply from QuantumZen
Nov.18.2012
02:44PM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line It is absolutely true that mankind is suffering because of attachments to impermanent things.

That's my opinion
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Reply from so_teh
Nov.18.2012
02:52PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Kindness is the light.
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Reply from jaigon
Nov.18.2012
03:16PM EDT 
Email jaigon
vertical line Everything spoken verbally is a matter of opinion, as in a Taoist aphorism "Those who speak do not know, and those who know do not speak."  Really the only way to get a spiritual truth is through self-realization.

Another fault is on the use of language.  Language is flawed and cannot convey everything perfectly.  As well, those who interpret scriptures have their own bias.  For example in the 19th century christian scholars who translated the Tao Te Ching translated the word "heaven" as a literal parallel to the christian heaven, whereas the Taoist heaven is more or less "cosmos" or nature.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.18.2012
07:10PM EDT 
vertical line A very important thing to always keep in mind is that words are never the truth. At best they are just pointing to the truth.

The words of the Buddha and Jesus are expressions of a direct spiritual experience. So you can say that their words are direct pointing fingers to the truth. It is the same thing as the words of Zen Masters.

Whereas the words of someone who has no experience of enlightenment they are expressions of their knowledge of enlightenment according to what they have heard and what they have read. So pointing the truth without realizing the truth could be a messy business but it seems that is what exactly everybody is doing.

So as you can see how messy the world is..


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Reply from justin
Nov.19.2012
12:02AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line When something is experienced it is experienced. Any added thoughts on this are opinions.
All thought is opinion, spirituality is understood, thinking on it (as explanation or such) is your opinion of the experience, your take on the experience.

As soon as thought occurs, and is held it is opinion. If it is not held it is not.
This is why opinions are described as cherished.

As soon as I designate spiritual learning from any learning I have created an opinion, (I have reached a decision on something) I have created duality, I have erred. I am a million miles away.
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Reply from justin
Nov.19.2012
12:03AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line But that is also my opinion, and should not be allowed to take shape in your mind.
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.19.2012
01:40AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Buddha and Christ led more people to the light than any others in history
Well, at least what is known to common man ....
Now you want to question the truth or validity of their words??

The truth is taught according to the ability of those to understand
The rest is up to you .. hahaha
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Reply from justin
Nov.19.2012
06:14AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line I read recently there are records of Jesus studying at lsasa,
During the missing years. And the Indian Buddhist king Asoka (not sure of spelling) sent Buddhist missionary's to amongst other people's the Essenes. This is recorded in some of the stones (edicts). This occurred approx 300bc so I read.

Jesus and John (baptist) were Essenes.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.19.2012
08:12AM EDT 
vertical line Jesus studying at Isasa? Where did you read that? I read recently that you don't understand.

Issa is the Arabic name for Jesus.

Shoot for perfection. Do it for the Fat Lady.

O snail
?Climb Mount Fuji, ?         
But slowly, slowly!
~ Issa ?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.19.2012
08:16AM EDT 
vertical line O snail
Climb Mount Fuji,
But slowly, slowly!
~ Issa
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Reply from justin
Nov.19.2012
10:41AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "O snail
Climb Mount Fuji,
But slowly, slowly!
~ Issa
"
.........

I am aware of the Islamic name Joe, I checked spelling it is Lhasa as in Tibet.

I have read it in two sources, books. one was lobsang rampa, and another was a 120 year old book on possible connections between Buddhism and Christianity. By a sandscrit scholar, if u really want j will find it again (it is a interesting read, the author has researched his topic well).

Combined with asokas declarations, and the ease of access to the east via the silk road. And the fact that tge other way was all roman and we might expect records (as we have many from this area roman territory) It is a thought provoking idea.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.19.2012
10:53AM EDT 
vertical line Read:
'The Unknown Life of Jesus' [The original text] by Nicolas Notovitch

'Jesus Lived in India - His unknown life before and after the crucifixion' by Holger Kersten
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.19.2012
11:13AM EDT 
vertical line "Then Issa secretly absented himself from his father's house; left Jerusalem, and, in a train of merchants, journeyed toward the Sindh."
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.19.2012
03:59PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Why is it called the lost years??
If you live your life and live it privately then should people call it the lost years of your life??

Forget I said that ...
Don't know what is bothering me lately.
Got something to do with this place being full of hostility ... ???
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Reply from starduster
Nov.20.2012
03:47AM EDT 
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Give me an example of a spiritual truth and a spiritual opinion.

---------------------------------------------

It, Is.

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Reply from justin
Nov.20.2012
07:46AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: ""Then Issa secretly absented himself from his father's house; left Jerusalem, and, in a train of merchants, journeyed toward the Sindh.""
.........

Thanks Joe, I will. I have just recently been reading what Islam has to say about Jesus. The above is from the Koran ?
I was surprised by the depth of knowledge Islam produces about Jesus. Maybe this surprise is the result of a cultural prejudice on my behalf. Always more to learn eh,
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.20.2012
08:02AM EDT 
vertical line Quote from The Life of Saint Issa, copied by Notovitch from a monastic manuscript found in Himis, Leh.
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Reply from football
Nov.20.2012
09:00AM EDT 
Email football
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Quote: "Quote: ""Then Issa secretly absented himself from his father's house; left Jerusalem, and, in a train of merchants, journeyed toward the Sindh.""
.........

Thanks Joe, I will. I have just recently been reading what Islam has to say about Jesus. The above is from the Koran ?
I was surprised by the depth of knowledge Islam produces about Jesus. Maybe this surprise is the result of a cultural prejudice on my behalf. Always more to learn eh,
"
.........

Islam has come to complete those which came before itself.(At reality)

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Reply from justin
Nov.20.2012
10:05AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line I have heard this before football, I have read most of the Koran.

I am concerned however because I am labelled a kaffar, and subject to nastiness. Might be a great thing for non-kaffars.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.20.2012
10:50AM EDT 
vertical line I
Have
Learned
So much from God
That I can no longer
Call
Myself

A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
A Buddhist, a Jew.

The Truth has shared so much of Itself
With me

That I can no longer call myself
A man, a woman, an angel,
Or even pure
Soul.

Love has
Befriended Hafiz so completely
It has turned to ash
And freed
Me

Of every concept and image
My mind has ever known.

~ Hafiz
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.20.2012
11:22AM EDT 
vertical line So he just call himself Hafiz?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.20.2012
11:32AM EDT 
vertical line I think he was given the name Hafiz, so he could write poetry of arbitrary meaning, because only a poet recognises a poet, only a poet understands a poet.
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Reply from floating_a
Nov.20.2012
11:45AM EDT 
vertical line Thankyou Joe.
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.20.2012
11:46AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "A very important thing to always keep in mind is that words are never the truth. At best they are just pointing to the truth.

The words of the Buddha and Jesus are expressions of a direct spiritual experience. So you can say that their words are direct pointing fingers to the truth. It is the same thing as the words of Zen Masters.

Whereas the words of someone who has no experience of enlightenment they are expressions of their knowledge of enlightenment according to what they have heard and what they have read. So pointing the truth without realizing the truth could be a messy business but it seems that is what exactly everybody is doing.

So as you can see how messy the world is..


"

Agreed. If someone is fully realized, awakened or whatever, then what they say about 'matters of the spirit', if you like, has a different status from what an unrealized person says, even if that person is a celebrated philosopher, writer or thinker.

That said, when that realized person starts making pronouncements  and speculating about matters on which they are not an ‘authority’, or which are outside their own experience  e.g. politics, taking LSD, quantum theory, neurology etc what they say becomes just another opinion or point of view.  

For example, a realized person who says that no one can have a deep, life-changing, genuine spiritual/religious experience as a result of taking LSD but who has never taken it themselves, is not in a position to make pronouncements about it because it's outside their own life experience.



.........
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.20.2012
11:48AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
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That is, realized people are not omniscient.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.20.2012
01:41PM EDT 
vertical line Oh.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.20.2012
01:43PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Thankyou Joe.

"
.........
Thank you.
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Reply from floating_a
Nov.20.2012
01:55PM EDT 
vertical line _/|\_
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.20.2012
11:51PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "A very important thing to always keep in mind is that words are never the truth. At best they are just pointing to the truth.

The words of the Buddha and Jesus are expressions of a direct spiritual experience. So you can say that their words are direct pointing fingers to the truth. It is the same thing as the words of Zen Masters.

Whereas the words of someone who has no experience of enlightenment they are expressions of their knowledge of enlightenment according to what they have heard and what they have read. So pointing the truth without realizing the truth could be a messy business but it seems that is what exactly everybody is doing.

So as you can see how messy the world is..


"

Agreed. If someone is fully realized, awakened or whatever, then what they say about 'matters of the spirit', if you like, has a different status from what an unrealized person says, even if that person is a celebrated philosopher, writer or thinker.

That said, when that realized person starts making pronouncements  and speculating about matters on which they are not an ‘authority’, or which are outside their own experience  e.g. politics, taking LSD, quantum theory, neurology etc what they say becomes just another opinion or point of view.  

For example, a realized person who says that no one can have a deep, life-changing, genuine spiritual/religious experience as a result of taking LSD but who has never taken it themselves, is not in a position to make pronouncements about it because it's outside their own life experience.



.........
"
.........

I think you are mixing it up like a coleslaw salad.

Realized persons becomes very intuitive. Intuition does not involves thinking. They just know. I don't think LSD would give you intuitive capacity. I did not know any one that someone who took LSD became intuitive and became enlightened. In fact those who took LSD ended  up even in the worse crap than before they were taking LSD.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.21.2012
04:00AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

That is, realized people are not omniscient.

"
.........

"
.........

Yes, I agree.  Its only a milestone along their path, or a stepping stone across a river that blocks their path.

I dont believe any creature is fully awakened.  And we are all creatures, made out of our own One Mind, our own Original Self.

The difference between satori and nirvana seems to be whether one acknowledges a Universal Consciousness.  Could also be the diffence between Zen and religion, even Buddhism.

In Zen Religion (Zen Buddhism, Zen Christianity, etc) the One Self creates everything out of and within Itself.  There is nothing and no one else.  But in Zen without religion, this One Self is also a creation, naturally arising out of Itself, within Itself, an indefinable and intangible *nothingness*, and One Self is just another temporary part of Things as It is.

Its not enough to leave it open-ended.  If you are to have Zen, you must leave it open all around, ends, top, bottom, and all sides.  As soon as you arrive at a permanent solution, you have left Zen behind.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.21.2012
05:46AM EDT 
vertical line All those ones who ended up in crap and worse craps were self-confessed phoneys, involved in some kind of secret vote-rigging scandal and subsequently exiled to Sirius B.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.21.2012
09:55AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

That is, realized people are not omniscient.

"
.........

"
.........

Yes, I agree.  Its only a milestone along their path, or a stepping stone across a river that blocks their path.

I dont believe any creature is fully awakened.  And we are all creatures, made out of our own One Mind, our own Original Self.

The difference between satori and nirvana seems to be whether one acknowledges a Universal Consciousness.  Could also be the diffence between Zen and religion, even Buddhism.

In Zen Religion (Zen Buddhism, Zen Christianity, etc) the One Self creates everything out of and within Itself.  There is nothing and no one else.  But in Zen without religion, this One Self is also a creation, naturally arising out of Itself, within Itself, an indefinable and intangible *nothingness*, and One Self is just another temporary part of Things as It is.

Its not enough to leave it open-ended.  If you are to have Zen, you must leave it open all around, ends, top, bottom, and all sides.  As soon as you arrive at a permanent solution, you have left Zen behind.

"
.........

I suspect you have read too much of Castaneda...lol
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Reply from starduster
Nov.21.2012
10:21AM EDT 
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There was a lot to be had in Castendas work, for me anyway.

What kept me reading his stuff, back then, was that everytime he came out with a new book he addressed things that had been happening in my astral travels, through TM, and answered a lot of questions for me.

I never really gave a lot of thought to whether his books were really non-fiction or fiction.  I knew he was a well respected university professor, at least at the time, in the 70s, and what he wrote helped me in my meditations. 

His work was contributory to me, like all the other stuff I was reading too, but my own meditations were primary, and still are.

Leo, you already know how dangerous thinking is to your personal progress on your own path, but letting what other people think, or what they think about what you think, is even worse.  Then they are walking your path instead of you. 

Let all that be by the side of the road.  How do you feel about what you think.  You have to feel your way along if you are to be true to yourself and your path.  What you feel is who you are, but what you think is influenced by too many outside sources.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.21.2012
10:25AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

There was a lot to be had in Castendas work, for me anyway.

What kept me reading his stuff, back then, was that everytime he came out with a new book he addressed things that had been happening in my astral travels, through TM, and answered a lot of questions for me.

I never really gave a lot of thought to whether his books were really non-fiction or fiction.  I knew he was a well respected university professor, at least at the time, in the 70s, and what he wrote helped me in my meditations. 

His work was contributory to me, like all the other stuff I was reading too, but my own meditations were primary, and still are.

Leo, you already know how dangerous thinking is to your personal progress on your own path, but letting what other people think, or what they think about what you think, is even worse.  Then they are walking your path instead of you. 

Let all that be by the side of the road.  How do you feel about what you think.  You have to feel your way along if you are to be true to yourself and your path.  What you feel is who you are, but what you think is influenced by too many outside sources.

"
.........

"
.........

Castenedas mistake was in claiming his works to be non-fiction.  So many then tried to prove they were not.

He should have claimed they were fiction, from the very start, and then many would have tried to prove they were non-fiction.  An air of mystery and mystique would have grown around his denials that any of the characters in them actually existed,  and no one would have tried to prove they were fiction.

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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.21.2012
10:29AM EDT 
vertical line I proved it. And published it.
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.21.2012
03:38PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
12:46AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

There was a lot to be had in Castendas work, for me anyway.

What kept me reading his stuff, back then, was that everytime he came out with a new book he addressed things that had been happening in my astral travels, through TM, and answered a lot of questions for me.

I never really gave a lot of thought to whether his books were really non-fiction or fiction.  I knew he was a well respected university professor, at least at the time, in the 70s, and what he wrote helped me in my meditations. 

His work was contributory to me, like all the other stuff I was reading too, but my own meditations were primary, and still are.

Leo, you already know how dangerous thinking is to your personal progress on your own path, but letting what other people think, or what they think about what you think, is even worse.  Then they are walking your path instead of you. 

Let all that be by the side of the road.  How do you feel about what you think.  You have to feel your way along if you are to be true to yourself and your path.  What you feel is who you are, but what you think is influenced by too many outside sources.

"
.........

Well I don't remember I asked advice from you. So why are you telling me what to  do like many in Zen Forums...lol..Why do people know what is good for others...?

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Reply from justin
Nov.22.2012
03:07AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Are you kidding Leo? you constantly ask for people to explain ??????
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Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
03:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

There was a lot to be had in Castendas work, for me anyway.

What kept me reading his stuff, back then, was that everytime he came out with a new book he addressed things that had been happening in my astral travels, through TM, and answered a lot of questions for me.

I never really gave a lot of thought to whether his books were really non-fiction or fiction.  I knew he was a well respected university professor, at least at the time, in the 70s, and what he wrote helped me in my meditations. 

His work was contributory to me, like all the other stuff I was reading too, but my own meditations were primary, and still are.

Leo, you already know how dangerous thinking is to your personal progress on your own path, but letting what other people think, or what they think about what you think, is even worse.  Then they are walking your path instead of you. 

Let all that be by the side of the road.  How do you feel about what you think.  You have to feel your way along if you are to be true to yourself and your path.  What you feel is who you are, but what you think is influenced by too many outside sources.

"
.........

Well I don't remember I asked advice from you. So why are you telling me what to  do like many in Zen Forums...lol..Why do people know what is good for others...?
"
.........

"
.........

Well I don't remember I asked advice from you. So why are you telling me what to  do like many in Zen Forums...lol..Why do people know what is good for others...?
"
.........

I think it is a cardinal sin to interfere with someone else on their path. 

I was more intending to give you feedback on what you yourself have advanced as a principle for you of *not thinking*, actually in support of that precept.

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Reply from nibble
Nov.22.2012
03:31AM EDT 
vertical line Great, keep feeding him, anyway jesus was way cool!
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
06:47AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "

That is, realized people are not omniscient.

"
.........

Much as they might seek to give the impression.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
06:53AM EDT 
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Quote: "Great, keep feeding him, anyway jesus was way cool! "
.........

Jesus stil is way cool !!

He too has his path, which led him to heaven,

Just as Satan has his path, which led him to hell.

And you have yours, and I have mine, and everyone else has their too.

That all way cool !!

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
07:38AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Agreed. If someone is fully realized, awakened or whatever, then what they say"

.........
"
.........

I think you are mixing it up like a coleslaw salad.

Realized persons becomes very intuitive. Intuition does not involves thinking. They just know. I don't think LSD would give you intuitive capacity. I did not know any one that someone who took LSD became intuitive and became enlightened. In fact those who took LSD ended  up even in the worse crap than before they were taking LSD.


True.  It's only when the mind is quiet that it can tap into the well of wisdom that must exist somewhere.   The thinking mind can be clever and brilliant and creative and even insightful, but not wise on a level with the most realized people like the Buddha etc.

Don't think it's true that LSD can't give intuitive capacity.  Like meditation, it can remove certain obstacles while often putting others in their place. But not in all cases. Just because it involves an 'artificial' change in brain chemistry, it doesn't make the experience invalid or not real.

This is only an opinion as I have never taken acid.  My partner has however and her description of her experience is totally convincing as a glimpse into ultimate reality or the unconditioned, the world as it really is  or whatever name you want to give it.   And listening to her is a lived experience of mine.  You would have to listen to her. 

I think there's always a risk in evaluating and passing judgment on the authenticity, validity or reality of other people's religious experiences.  The risk being that of regarding oneself as omniscient and all-seeing. 


A major delusion I would say that very enlightened people are perhaps more susceptible to than the less realized.

.........
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Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Agreed. If someone is fully realized, awakened or whatever, then what they say"

.........
"
.........

I think you are mixing it up like a coleslaw salad.

Realized persons becomes very intuitive. Intuition does not involves thinking. They just know. I don't think LSD would give you intuitive capacity. I did not know any one that someone who took LSD became intuitive and became enlightened. In fact those who took LSD ended  up even in the worse crap than before they were taking LSD.


True.  It's only when the mind is quiet that it can tap into the well of wisdom that must exist somewhere.   The thinking mind can be clever and brilliant and creative and even insightful, but not wise on a level with the most realized people like the Buddha etc.

Don't think it's true that LSD can't give intuitive capacity.  Like meditation, it can remove certain obstacles while often putting others in their place. But not in all cases. Just because it involves an 'artificial' change in brain chemistry, it doesn't make the experience invalid or not real.

This is only an opinion as I have never taken acid.  My partner has however and her description of her experience is totally convincing as a glimpse into ultimate reality or the unconditioned, the world as it really is  or whatever name you want to give it.   And listening to her is a lived experience of mine.  You would have to listen to her. 

I think there's always a risk in evaluating and passing judgment on the authenticity, validity or reality of other people's religious experiences.  The risk being that of regarding oneself as omniscient and all-seeing. 


A major delusion I would say that very enlightened people are perhaps more susceptible to than the less realized.

......... "
.........

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

......... "
.........

"
.........

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
08:12AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

......... "
..

Acid is called an hallucinogenic but it doesn't always have an hallucinogenic effect apparently and it didn't in my partner's case.

There were no fantastic visions or colours. Just a falling away of confusion, uncertainty and ignorance if you like.  She perceived everything directly and completely and as it is, perfect as it is and nondual.  It was absurd to want things to be different because they were perfect the way they are.  

Far from the  'crap' compounding, it all fell away, a state of bliss and full knowledge and understanding and wisdom.


She took it a second time a couple of years later and nothing happened. 


It was a gift and she was very fortunate to receive it and she's never forgotten it.


 Now she just meditates, works on herself and is the sanest person I know and one of the most realized.


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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
08:17AM EDT 
vertical line To fathom Hell or soar angelic,
just take a pinch of psychedelic.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
08:18AM EDT 
vertical line One of the most realised ... lolly
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
08:25AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "One of the most realised ... lolly"
.........

Right.   And I only know two people.
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
08:42AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "To fathom Hell or soar angelic,
just take a pinch of psychedelic.
"
.........

To become self-realized and hip

Just take a leaf from the book of Chip.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
10:37AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

......... "
..

Acid is called an hallucinogenic but it doesn't always have an hallucinogenic effect apparently and it didn't in my partner's case.

There were no fantastic visions or colours. Just a falling away of confusion, uncertainty and ignorance if you like.  She perceived everything directly and completely and as it is, perfect as it is and nondual.  It was absurd to want things to be different because they were perfect the way they are.  

Far from the  'crap' compounding, it all fell away, a state of bliss and full knowledge and understanding and wisdom.


She took it a second time a couple of years later and nothing happened. 


It was a gift and she was very fortunate to receive it and she's never forgotten it.


 Now she just meditates, works on herself and is the sanest person I know and one of the most realized.


"
.........

Sounds like a cool lady.

Good luck to you both.


"
.........

Sounds like a cool lady.

Good luck to you both.

"
.........

Sounds like a cool lady.

Good luck to you both.

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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
12:12PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

......... "
..

Acid is called an hallucinogenic but it doesn't always have an hallucinogenic effect apparently and it didn't in my partner's case.

There were no fantastic visions or colours. Just a falling away of confusion, uncertainty and ignorance if you like.  She perceived everything directly and completely and as it is, perfect as it is and nondual.  It was absurd to want things to be different because they were perfect the way they are.  

Far from the  'crap' compounding, it all fell away, a state of bliss and full knowledge and understanding and wisdom.


She took it a second time a couple of years later and nothing happened. 


It was a gift and she was very fortunate to receive it and she's never forgotten it.


 Now she just meditates, works on herself and is the sanest person I know and one of the most realized.


"
.........

So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
01:06PM EDT 
vertical line Pickle?
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.22.2012
01:26PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "......... "
Quote: "Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

..........


So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.


If that's what your lineage calls them then I guess you have no choice but to call them Makyo too and that's that.


For goodness' sake don't try to think for yourself or evaluate anything from your own experience. Just keep on not-thinking  lol  

 

That said :

Experiential-Spiritual truth 1 : I took some LSD and found it gave me a valuable insight into ultimate reality which I have subsequently sought to realize in meditation and spiritual practice.

Experiential-Spiritual truth  2 : I took some LSD and found it didn't give me a valuable insight into ultimate reality but I still learned something of value as a result.

Non-experiential-spiritual opinion based on conditioning : Some people whom I consider to be enlightened and omniscient and who consider themselves enlightened and omniscient say that it is impossible to have a genuine or valuable spiritual experience as a result of taking LSD, that it is even psychologically and/or spiritually damaging, though they haven't taken it themselves and neither have I.  But I agree with them because I take everything they say as the absolute truth and who am I to question it?  

 

Preconceptions are preconceptions and opinions are opinions whether they’re held by an ‘eastern mind’ or a ‘western mind’.

That said, I have to laugh :D


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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
01:39PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Makyo is a trap or delusion. It isn't an awakening experience like kensho.
It isn't realizing or actaulizing the truth of one's nature
It is a false experience the ego puts up to deter one from pushing forward.
Usually one of terror or some other thing to trap ones attention.

Kensho isn't full awakening. But, a sample of the awakening experience.
Still one does laugh at oneself for having seen that the truth was never farther than ones nose .... ahahahah
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
02:01PM EDT 
vertical line Laughing jags - the sound of fatuous euphoria.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
02:21PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Makyo is a trap or delusion. It isn't an awakening experience like kensho.
It isn't realizing or actaulizing the truth of one's nature
It is a false experience the ego puts up to deter one from pushing forward.
Usually one of terror or some other thing to trap ones attention.

Kensho isn't full awakening. But, a sample of the awakening experience.
Still one does laugh at oneself for having seen that the truth was never farther than ones nose .... ahahahah
"
.........

Now whats happening with me? Now I have to agree honestly....VBS*
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
02:22PM EDT 
vertical line Is that your own words or you just copied it?...hahaha..
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
03:50PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "......... "
Quote: "Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

..........


So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.


If that's what your lineage calls them then I guess you have no choice but to call them Makyo too and that's that.


For goodness' sake don't try to think for yourself or evaluate anything from your own experience. Just keep on not-thinking  lol  

 

That said :

Experiential-Spiritual truth 1 : I took some LSD and found it gave me a valuable insight into ultimate reality which I have subsequently sought to realize in meditation and spiritual practice.

Experiential-Spiritual truth  2 : I took some LSD and found it didn't give me a valuable insight into ultimate reality but I still learned something of value as a result.

Non-experiential-spiritual opinion based on conditioning : Some people whom I consider to be enlightened and omniscient and who consider themselves enlightened and omniscient say that it is impossible to have a genuine or valuable spiritual experience as a result of taking LSD, that it is even psychologically and/or spiritually damaging,
though they haven't taken it themselves and neither have I.  But I agree with them because I take everything they say as the absolute truth and who am I to question it?  

 

Preconceptions are preconceptions and opinions are opinions whether they’re held by an ‘eastern mind’ or a ‘western mind’.

That said, I have to laugh :D


"
.........

Well so your experience is valuable. I don't discount the value of experience. Like suffering is an experience that moves you.

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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
03:52PM EDT 
vertical line I did not take LSD. But I guess I can only equate the experience when you really got too drunk..
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
05:02PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Is that your own words or you just copied it?...hahaha.. "
.........
What's the difference?
You would never believe me anyway ... take it with a grain of salt and just remember it when you need it ... haha
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
05:03PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I did not take LSD. But I guess I can only equate the experience when you really got too drunk.. "
.........

Totally different experiences. But, I like getting drunk too ... hahaha
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
05:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I did not take LSD. But I guess I can only equate the experience when you really got too drunk.. "
.........

Totally different experiences. But, I like getting drunk too ... hahaha
"
.........

No wonder there are so many being enlightened...
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
05:15PM EDT 
vertical line So many beings enlightened...lol
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Reply from Chryseis
Nov.22.2012
06:05PM EDT 
vertical line

A spiritual truth: ever was

A spiritual opinion: In answer to why are we born, have a life, and die - We don't have anything, so there is an impetus within a soul matrix in which we abide on one level to aquire success.  So we look, taste, feel, respond, think and try to determine how we can be a success - but we don't know - so we try a lot of angles to get an idea of what will make us feel a success, and in the process we attract sort of etheric fluff to our soul like static on a balloon can pick up fluff and hair etc., from all the angles/choices that we explore and make.

The success that we are after is refinement, the impetus is to refine us and develop mind to transform.  The destination is that the transformation will mean that we move beyond the necessity of the flesh and bone body. But in our ignorance we balk at this because we like the sensations of the flesh and bone body, well the highs of the body that is, but we don't like the pain of the body and this makes us sad, or if we do like the pain of the body - we are sad as well.

To be happy we educate our minds on true worth, and this requires sacrifice.  Though we can get confused on what we must sacrifice and this is why we need to reflect or meditate on our true nature.  Some things are so heavily ingrained that all we can do is make the best of things and if we strive to refine - we are perfect in this, despite seemingly imperfect.

Within each of us a great halls of holiness, springs of inspiration, and fountains of truth.

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Reply from Chryseis
Nov.22.2012
06:12PM EDT 
vertical line

oh, and buddha might agree with the above, but christ might ask us to be a little more charitable in the process and maybe sacrifice more than what is necessary - perhaps,

and then maybe buddha might reflect and think yes, I can see what Christ is after, I might modify my concurrence by suggesting that we assist others if it seems the right thing to do - but don't strain yourself, after all, you have such a big task with yourself.

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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
06:25PM EDT 
vertical line I think thats the problem. We have all the great holiness yet we are suffering. Why not just have the dirt and be happy?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
06:26PM EDT 
vertical line You can kiss the dirt and say goodbye to suffering...lol
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
06:35PM EDT 
vertical line I think we think we are all special, the only creature in the image of God. That seems started all our suffering...
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
07:36PM EDT 
vertical line I'm bad, I'll suffer with you.
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
08:32PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I did not take LSD. But I guess I can only equate the experience when you really got too drunk.. "
.........

Totally different experiences. But, I like getting drunk too ... hahaha
"
.........

No wonder there are so many being enlightened...
"
.........

You of course being the most drunk ... excuse me, I meant the most enlightened ... hahaha
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Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
07:23AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "........ Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "
"

Its been over 35 years since Ive dropped acid, but I did find it very mind expanding, and had a great kensho episode on it once.

LSD got a bad rap because things that crazy people did on it, like trying to fly off of buildings, were blamed on the drug.  It was never billed as making people sane, and crazy people were more likely to try it than sane people.

I dont know how many *trips* I took back in the 60s and 70s, but I never had a bad one.  I even talked down people who were having a bad trip, even while I was high myself.  *Hey man, your watch is your lifeboat.  We took the acid at 12, and now its 4am.  It lasts 8 hours.  Just take it easy until it wears off, and then we will go get some breakfast.*

......... "
..

Acid is called an hallucinogenic but it doesn't always have an hallucinogenic effect apparently and it didn't in my partner's case.

There were no fantastic visions or colours. Just a falling away of confusion, uncertainty and ignorance if you like.  She perceived everything directly and completely and as it is, perfect as it is and nondual.  It was absurd to want things to be different because they were perfect the way they are.  

Far from the  'crap' compounding, it all fell away, a state of bliss and full knowledge and understanding and wisdom.


She took it a second time a couple of years later and nothing happened. 


It was a gift and she was very fortunate to receive it and she's never forgotten it.


 Now she just meditates, works on herself and is the sanest person I know and one of the most realized.


"
.........

So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.
"
.........

In the acid-kensho experience that I had, all thought was suspended, but I was *feeling* everything around me as myself, and this perception of self-reality seemed virtually sperical, fading off into the distance of what I was able to comprehend, but without ending in all directions. 

A friend entered the room and asked, *Are you one with the universe, Don ?*

I answered, *Man, I am the universe.*

I counted it as quite a learning experience, since I still believed I was learning at that time, and for many years afterwards.  Now I have a considerably different view of it.


"
.........

So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.
"
.........

"
.........

So in the West you call those experiences Kensho or Satori?
In the East or in my lineage those are called Makyo not Kensho.
"
.........

In the acid-kensho experience that I had, all thought was suspended, but I was *feeling* everything around me as myself, and this perception of self-reality seemed virtually sperical, fading off into the distance of what I was able to comprehend, but without ending in all directions. 

A friend entered the room and asked, *Are you one with the universe, Don ?*

I answered, *Man, I am the universe.*

I counted it as quite a learning experience, since I still believed I was learning at that time, and for many years afterwards.  Now I have a considerably different view of it.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
07:30AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Laughing jags - the sound of fatuous euphoria."
.........

Sometimes I laugh so hard I fart.

That can be very embarrassing.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
07:37AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "I proved it. And published it. "
.........

I still want to read that, out of curiousity, not for critical purposes positive or negative.

You dont show it here too much, but you are a very good writer when you get down to it.

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Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
07:43AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
"
.........

I have not been able to read Casteneda since awakening, even though he had previously been one of my favorite authors.

Oz is not the same place of wonder, after youve seen behind the curtain....

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Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
08:20AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line haha Oz is everything you might think behind the curtain :) 
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.23.2012
08:58AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
"
.........

I have not been able to read Casteneda since awakening, even though he had previously been one of my favorite authors.

Oz is not the same place of wonder, after youve seen behind the curtain....

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
12:03PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
"
.........

I have not been able to read Casteneda since awakening, even though he had previously been one of my favorite authors.

Oz is not the same place of wonder, after youve seen behind the curtain....

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
"
.........

What is your practice again?... Please don't get irritated. Actually I am practicing you..... hahahaha...
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.23.2012
05:30PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I have posted what I use for sitting practice.
Why do you keep asking?
If you don't know by now then I do not wish to get you to start thinking again ... hahaha
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Reply from starduster
Nov.24.2012
11:00PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
"
.........

I have not been able to read Casteneda since awakening, even though he had previously been one of my favorite authors.

Oz is not the same place of wonder, after youve seen behind the curtain....

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
"
.........

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
"
.........

I think reading and studying, in the beginning, are like weaving the mat upon which you sit.  It is not the point, nor will it bring you the point, but it is supportive.

It is only the practice of meditation and or sitting that matters at all.

Its an inside job.  Only that which comes to you from within can have any real meaning.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147833
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
02:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "This thread is about Buddha and Christ ... not Carlos Castaneda....
Are you looking for power or are you looking for liberation??
Power requires you to control others
Liberation requires you to control yourself
"
.........

I have not been able to read Casteneda since awakening, even though he had previously been one of my favorite authors.

Oz is not the same place of wonder, after youve seen behind the curtain....

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
"
.........

"
.........

Recently I have tried to read more about Buddhism and enlightenment ...
But something keeps telling me to stop that and just focus heavy on practice
Whether this will bring me home again, I don't know ... just part of the journey I guess.
"
.........

I think reading and studying, in the beginning, are like weaving the mat upon which you sit.  It is not the point, nor will it bring you the point, but it is supportive.

It is only the practice of meditation and or sitting that matters at all.

Its an inside job.  Only that which comes to you from within can have any real meaning.

"
.........

I think that is t he beginning of the stuggle that is why you sit zazen.
But the more knowledge you have the more you have to unload and you to sit much longer and harder so you can drop all that knowledge.
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.25.2012
07:07AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "

A spiritual truth: ever was

A spiritual opinion: In answer to why are we born, have a life, and die - We don't have anything, so there is an impetus within a soul matrix in which we abide on one level to aquire success.  So we look, taste, feel, respond, think and try to determine how we can be a success - but we don't know - so we try a lot of angles to get an idea of what will make us feel a success, and in the process we attract sort of etheric fluff to our soul like static on a balloon can pick up fluff and hair etc., from all the angles/choices that we explore and make.

The success that we are after is refinement, the impetus is to refine us and develop mind to transform.  The destination is that the transformation will mean that we move beyond the necessity of the flesh and bone body. But in our ignorance we balk at this because we like the sensations of the flesh and bone body, well the highs of the body that is, but we don't like the pain of the body and this makes us sad, or if we do like the pain of the body - we are sad as well.

To be happy we educate our minds on true worth, and this requires sacrifice.  Though we can get confused on what we must sacrifice and this is why we need to reflect or meditate on our true nature.  Some things are so heavily ingrained that all we can do is make the best of things and if we strive to refine - we are perfect in this, despite seemingly imperfect.

Within each of us a great halls of holiness, springs of inspiration, and fountains of truth.

"
.........

Thanks.  From your name and what you write, you sound like you might be a woman.

Makes a refreshing change from the points scoring antics that go on here among the
would be alpha males.  
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
07:30AM EDT 
vertical line I don't see any point scoring antics.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
07:35AM EDT 
vertical line Oh, I get it. You're an us and you're scoring within.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
11:29AM EDT 
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A spiritual truth: ever was

A spiritual opinion: In answer to why are we born, have a life, and die - We don't have anything, so there is an impetus within a soul matrix in which we abide on one level to aquire success.  So we look, taste, feel, respond, think and try to determine how we can be a success - but we don't know - so we try a lot of angles to get an idea of what will make us feel a success, and in the process we attract sort of etheric fluff to our soul like static on a balloon can pick up fluff and hair etc., from all the angles/choices that we explore and make.

The success that we are after is refinement, the impetus is to refine us and develop mind to transform.  The destination is that the transformation will mean that we move beyond the necessity of the flesh and bone body. But in our ignorance we balk at this because we like the sensations of the flesh and bone body, well the highs of the body that is, but we don't like the pain of the body and this makes us sad, or if we do like the pain of the body - we are sad as well.

To be happy we educate our minds on true worth, and this requires sacrifice.  Though we can get confused on what we must sacrifice and this is why we need to reflect or meditate on our true nature.  Some things are so heavily ingrained that all we can do is make the best of things and if we strive to refine - we are perfect in this, despite seemingly imperfect.

Within each of us a great halls of holiness, springs of inspiration, and fountains of truth.

"
.........

Thanks.  From your name and what you write, you sound like you might be a woman.

Makes a refreshing change from the points scoring antics that go on here among the
would be alpha males.  
"
.........

What are we beyond flesh and bone body.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
11:34AM EDT 
vertical line Don't you know?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
11:35AM EDT 
vertical line You're the score.
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.27.2012
11:07AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "You're the score. "
.........

To quote your 'good self ' : Don't presume tell me who or what I am. 

When I call you a philanthropist, I am joking.  When you call me a 'pretender' and other things I suspect you are not and you don't say them with a smile. 

If you want to say something funny, put a smile at the end of it to let 'us' know, deadpan Joe.  :)

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.27.2012
12:39PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "Oh, I get it. You're an us and you're scoring within. "
.........

And we’re all healers so if you’re sore heal yourself. Ah but are haloes real? If the shoe is real, wear it.  Ah, he who heals not himself, he’s a loser.  Lo, a seer! Ha!  A loser,  he’s a lore unto himself.  No man is an island.  We are also here.  Let those who have ear holes, hear.  

 



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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.27.2012
12:39PM EDT 
vertical line That's a misquote.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.28.2012
04:14AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

A spiritual truth: ever was

A spiritual opinion: In answer to why are we born, have a life, and die - We don't have anything, so there is an impetus within a soul matrix in which we abide on one level to aquire success.  So we look, taste, feel, respond, think and try to determine how we can be a success - but we don't know - so we try a lot of angles to get an idea of what will make us feel a success, and in the process we attract sort of etheric fluff to our soul like static on a balloon can pick up fluff and hair etc., from all the angles/choices that we explore and make.

The success that we are after is refinement, the impetus is to refine us and develop mind to transform.  The destination is that the transformation will mean that we move beyond the necessity of the flesh and bone body. But in our ignorance we balk at this because we like the sensations of the flesh and bone body, well the highs of the body that is, but we don't like the pain of the body and this makes us sad, or if we do like the pain of the body - we are sad as well.

To be happy we educate our minds on true worth, and this requires sacrifice.  Though we can get confused on what we must sacrifice and this is why we need to reflect or meditate on our true nature.  Some things are so heavily ingrained that all we can do is make the best of things and if we strive to refine - we are perfect in this, despite seemingly imperfect.

Within each of us a great halls of holiness, springs of inspiration, and fountains of truth.

"
.........

Thanks.  From your name and what you write, you sound like you might be a woman.

Makes a refreshing change from the points scoring antics that go on here among the
would be alpha males.  
"
.........

What are we beyond flesh and bone body.
"
.........

"
.........

Thanks.  From your name and what you write, you sound like you might be a woman.

Makes a refreshing change from the points scoring antics that go on here among the
would be alpha males.  
"
.........

What are we beyond flesh and bone body.
"
.........

*You dont have a soul, you are a soul.  You have a body.* Eckhard Tolle

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Reply from Sam Hardy
Nov.29.2012
05:27AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line New revised version:

We are all healers so if you’re sore, heal yourself. And if it is a real shoe and it fits, wear it, even if there are holes in it.  But are holes and haloes real?  No, and he who heals not himself, he’s a loser.  A seer? Holy man?  No, a loser,  for he’s a lore unto himself.  No man is an island.  We are also here to share. O let it be.  May those who have ear-holes, hear. 


But don't quote me or misquote me. :)


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Reply from Joe Chip
Dec.19.2012
07:01AM EDT 
vertical line The Buddha and Christ revered their enemies.
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Reply from justin
Dec.19.2012
08:51AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "The Buddha and Christ revered their enemies. "
.........


sometimes the best teachers are not obvious,
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Reply from so_teh
Dec.19.2012
04:37PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Beautiful Simplicity
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Reply from justin
Dec.20.2012
11:50AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line 'Is everything the Buddha and Christ ever said nothing or little more than a collection of opinions?  Or a mixture of both?'

ask them :) they will answer
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