history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Monday Jul 28 2014 08:35PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  One day a Vinaya master asked a Zen master:
-How should one practice Tao?
The Zen master replied:
-Eat when you are hungry, sleep when you are tired.
The Vinaya master said:
-Most people do that.
The Zen master... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TRUST
vertical line Posted on Nov.22.2012 @ 09:28AM EDT by starduster
*Trusting yourself is realizing yourself.
*Trusting life is realizing yourself as life.
*This is an invitation to our thinking minds to open in trust. We can trust that there is a knowing that is out of the realm of thoughts or emotions or circumstances. When we deeply trust, our minds open to discover what is true, regardless of what we are feeling.
*The deepest trust is a by-product of this true realization.*
Gangaji

Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
09:30AM EDT 
vertical line

Ive never been big on trust.

If you dont trust you dont have to worry about losing trust, or faith, or anything.

The worst anyone can do is confirm your lack of faith in humanity, which is no loss.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147561
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Nov.22.2012
09:37AM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line no loss?


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147565
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
09:39AM EDT 
vertical line He will let you down.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147566
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.22.2012
09:44AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "no loss?


"
.........

No loss, because I never had any faith in humanity to begin with.

I like people, as individuals, and I have yet to meet an uninteresting person,

but I dont like everyone, and especially not society as a whole.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147568
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from floating_a
Nov.22.2012
09:44AM EDT 
vertical line I have been disappointed
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147569
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
01:33PM EDT 
vertical line Gangaji says:

"
We can trust that there is a knowing that is out of the realm of thoughts or emotions or circumstances."

So is Gangaji saying that the same thing as I am saying: "Stop Thinking ---- just eat watermelong or ice cream if you wish."?...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147604
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
01:37PM EDT 
vertical line I think this is the same as my Thread: A Mind That Can Stop Thinking is Intuitive.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147605
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
01:44PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I think this is the same as my Thread: A Mind That Can Stop Thinking is Intuitive. "
.........

Trust and intuition is not the same.
However, when one ends the separation one feels towards others, what need is trust?
But, the truth is that faith in humanity is never a thing we can intuitively trust .... hahaha
Time wounds all heals ....
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147607
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
01:57PM EDT 
vertical line I trust my towel.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147610
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
02:25PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I think this is the same as my Thread: A Mind That Can Stop Thinking is Intuitive. "
.........

Trust and intuition is not the same.
However, when one ends the separation one feels towards others, what need is trust?
But, the truth is that faith in humanity is never a thing we can intuitively trust .... hahaha
Time wounds all heals ....
"
.........

That is why I said I think....lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147618
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from shayne
Nov.22.2012
02:29PM EDT 
Email shayne
vertical line just watched a documentary......he said....now hes a serial killer of over 200. that trust no one. paranoia. so.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147619
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Nov.22.2012
07:17PM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Gangaji says:

"
We can trust that there is a knowing that is out of the realm of thoughts or emotions or circumstances."

So is Gangaji saying that the same thing as I am saying: "Stop Thinking ---- just eat watermelong or ice cream if you wish."?...lol
"
.........

yes and no

yes, do what you want, do what you wish

no, because the trust that there is a knowing outside of the realm of thoughts etc, this doesn't mean that we stop thinking.  We need to sort of get our mind and thinking sorted so that we can have this deep trust.  Its like if you unclutter your mind of thinking that is not right, therefore if we discipline our thinking, then we find that there is knowing outside of thinking etc.

So if you habitually lie like a slug, stuffing yourself  with watermelon and icecream you will ultimately burden your self.

The idea is not to stop thinking, but to have right thought, and therefore right action...

Right thought would find difficulty to be founded in a person that is regularly consuming watermelon and icecream. 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147640
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
07:39PM EDT 
vertical line We? Clearly, someone has been slacking off.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147645
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
08:28PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "yes and no

yes, do what you want, do what you wish

no, because the trust that there is a knowing outside of the realm of thoughts etc, this doesn't mean that we stop thinking.  We need to sort of get our mind and thinking sorted so that we can have this deep trust.  Its like if you unclutter your mind of thinking that is not right, therefore if we discipline our thinking, then we find that there is knowing outside of thinking etc.

So if you habitually lie like a slug, stuffing yourself  with watermelon and icecream you will ultimately burden your self.

The idea is not to stop thinking, but to have right thought, and therefore right action...

Right thought would find difficulty to be founded in a person that is regularly consuming watermelon and icecream. 

"
.........

Hahaha

In truth, right whatever is to set the stage or temple for the return of the master .... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147650
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
08:49PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Gangaji says:

"
We can trust that there is a knowing that is out of the realm of thoughts or emotions or circumstances."

So is Gangaji saying that the same thing as I am saying: "Stop Thinking ---- just eat watermelong or ice cream if you wish."?...lol
"
.........

yes and no

yes, do what you want, do what you wish

no, because the trust that there is a knowing outside of the realm of thoughts etc, this doesn't mean that we stop thinking.  We need to sort of get our mind and thinking sorted so that we can have this deep trust.  Its like if you unclutter your mind of thinking that is not right, therefore if we discipline our thinking, then we find that there is knowing outside of thinking etc.

So if you habitually lie like a slug, stuffing yourself  with watermelon and icecream you will ultimately burden your self.

The idea is not to stop thinking, but to have right thought, and therefore right action...

Right thought would find difficulty to be founded in a person that is regularly consuming watermelon and icecream. 

"
.........

Ok could explain your right thought and action you have done so far.
I can see that you don't eat watermelon and icecream. How about pizza...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147663
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
08:50PM EDT 
vertical line Could you explain......
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147664
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
02:19AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "I think this is the same as my Thread: A Mind That Can Stop Thinking is Intuitive. "
.........

its ok you will understand, and move on
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147695
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Chryseis
Nov.23.2012
02:45AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "Could you explain......
"
.........

there's nothing wrong with any of the food choices, but the concept of "stop thinking and just eat watermelon, icecream and pizza", is missing an active element of dedication.

true realization would only come to those with dedicated hearts and minds.

the dedication is to be moderate, be kind, be generous of spirit, be nurturing to the world and to yourself, and be sensitive to what you are doing in your life so that you can increase your awareness.

so, to stop thinking (generally) and be focusing on satisfying your appetite, is a form of looking after yourself and maybe one of the baby steps along that path - however, it would modify with dedication.

*some icecream drops off her spoon as she is shovelling in a large mouthful

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147696
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
05:48AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "I think this is the same as my Thread: A Mind That Can Stop Thinking is Intuitive. "
.........

Its along those lines.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147726
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
05:55AM EDT 
vertical line

Quote: "I trust my towel."
.........

One night at a party at a cabin a friend was building in the woods, we were all sleeping in the loft of the A frame when someone noticed it was on fire.  A small fire, outside on the wall next to the chimney, which had not been adequately insulated.

The owner quickly grabbed a towel to wrap around his waist, and ran to the river and back with a bucket to put it out.  By the time the rest of us were out there to help, he had already put it out.

As we were queing up, to go back up the ladder to the loft and our sleeping bags, the owner was at the bottom of the ladder adjusting his towel just as the girl ahead of him on the ladder lost her balance and began falling backwards, windmilling her arms in midair.

Those of us standing around werent sure what he would do, as he quickly glanced back and forth between her and his loosened towel.  Finally he gave up, dropped the towel and caught her in his arms, then standing there naked holding her in his arms. 

We all applauded, of course !!

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147727
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
06:11AM EDT 
vertical line

true realization would only come to those with dedicated hearts and minds

----------------------------------------------

There seems to be an element of humility in some satori stories, like Ramana going into meditation with he question, *Who is it that dies*....

Looking back, everyone who has experienced satori or nirvana or ephinany or whatever, says it was right there in front of them all the time, they just didnt see it before....

Those who are still working on it are not learning anything, not gaining anything toward a goal, but rather are preparing themselves to endure something so devastating within themselves that they have hidden it from themselves, for such a long time....

Its a repressed memory that we all share, and it doesnt come back until we are ready to bear it, because while some call it death, and others call it a blessing, we exist as a means to overcome it, either vicariously through our ignorance, or in helping to deal with it in our awareness....

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147729
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
08:31AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Trusting life is realizing yourself as life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147744
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
08:31AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line The deepest trust is a by-product of this true realization.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147745
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
08:34AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line I know this, this is the only truth.

and trust does not really relate to this it is a weak explanation of what needs none.

Trust is only applicable if this truth is not known.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147746
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
09:24AM EDT 
vertical line Trustee entrusted.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147755
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from starduster
Nov.24.2012
11:25PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Gangaji says:

"
We can trust that there is a knowing that is out of the realm of thoughts or emotions or circumstances."

So is Gangaji saying that the same thing as I am saying: "Stop Thinking ---- just eat watermelong or ice cream if you wish."?...lol
"
.........

yes and no

yes, do what you want, do what you wish

no, because the trust that there is a knowing outside of the realm of thoughts etc, this doesn't mean that we stop thinking.  We need to sort of get our mind and thinking sorted so that we can have this deep trust.  Its like if you unclutter your mind of thinking that is not right, therefore if we discipline our thinking, then we find that there is knowing outside of thinking etc.

So if you habitually lie like a slug, stuffing yourself  with watermelon and icecream you will ultimately burden your self.

The idea is not to stop thinking, but to have right thought, and therefore right action...

Right thought would find difficulty to be founded in a person that is regularly consuming watermelon and icecream. 

"
.........

"
.........

*Right Thought* is a good objective, something to learn.

Knowledge without understanding can be dangerous, even if it is good.

Some monks learn discipline in the temple, but fail to understand.  They may still fall prey to ideology, of any kind that separates one from another.

A good example of this are those monks who have set themselves on fire for a political purpose.  Because they have learned the disciplne of the temple they can do that, and since they have failed to understand they are still willing to.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147834
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
02:17AM EDT 
vertical line I don't think all monks get enlightened..
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147837
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this CALLIGRAPHY SCROLL, TRANQUILITY
by George Caso
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °