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TOPIC: COMPASSION |
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Posted on Nov.22.2012 @ 06:51PM EDT by leoj99
Compassion.
Is compassion something you posses and you have to dole it out to others who you think helpless.
Is helping others a good deed in Zen?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
08:05PM EDT
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LoveBite
Squish ...
... Smack |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
08:33PM EDT
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Compassion is seeing yourself in others and then helping yourself ... hahaha |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
08:59PM EDT
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Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
09:10PM EDT
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Perhaps they're just greedy. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
09:19PM EDT
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Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
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No, people sometimes need to reaffirm their own understanding by letting others know. New eyes present new views and ideas.
Also, it is the right thing to do ... help others.
The reasons are up to you
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
09:22PM EDT
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So you are saying that if you think you can help, you will invariably mislead? |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
09:22PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
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No, people sometimes need to reaffirm their own understanding by letting others know. New eyes present new views and ideas.
Also, it is the right thing to do ... help others.
The reasons are up to you
"
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Ah help others. Is that part of the right view, right action you were telling?
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
09:23PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
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Are you sure you are really helping or you are adding to the suffering?
No, people sometimes need to reaffirm their own understanding by letting others know. New eyes present new views and ideas.
Also, it is the right thing to do ... help others.
The reasons are up to you
"
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Ah help others. Is that part of the right view, right action you were telling?
"
......... |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
09:24PM EDT
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Are you sure you are really helping or you are adding to the suffering?
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.22.2012
09:25PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
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No, people sometimes need to reaffirm their own understanding by letting others know. New eyes present new views and ideas.
Also, it is the right thing to do ... help others.
The reasons are up to you
"
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Ah help others. Is that part of the right view, right action you were telling?
"
.........
Why don't you learn more about Buddhism and then ask your questions .... hahaha
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.22.2012
09:26PM EDT
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So you think you have compassion. |
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.22.2012
09:33PM EDT
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I think I'm being misled. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:00AM EDT
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Eckhart Tolle - Surrender, Attention, and Compassion |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
03:01AM EDT
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I think compassion or we can call it True Compassion comes as a result of understanding. It comes as a result of enlightenment.
It is not something you posses because there is no one there to have a possesion. The Ego or the false self who likes all the possessions of knowledge and divinity and all those things is no longer there.
So compassion is being with world, with everyone and everything. There is no other choice and you cannot do anything about it.
That is enlightenment.
If you feel you have compassion that you can give it is only an illusion of your Ego which in itself an illusion too.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
03:04AM EDT
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I think the compassion that most people know came from the saying: You give in order to receive. You give and you will receive a thousand fold.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
03:12AM EDT
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And I think that is the main motive of all the desire to help others.
In Zen that is very shallow and superficial. The motivation of helping others is nothing but just an egoistic attitude.
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Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
05:33AM EDT
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Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
.........
Here is a difference in the practices of east and west (nothing to do with Zen)
As exampled here on Zen guide much (yes u can use Example as verb check the oed)
the reason why i myself talk so much here is because it is the only Buddhist minded people i am in regular contact with so it helps to bounce ideas and promote investigation.
Leo as you have said you are from the east, in the east Buddhism is common, it is accepted there are monasteries everywhere, the people take Buddhism for granted.
The nearest temple from me is a 4 hour drive, it is nearly 400 kilometers away, obviously not a daily commute.
My culture is christian and therefore the predominant religious theory is Christian.
So if you have heard it all before and see the discussions here as amateurish maybe u should consider the circumstances of many of us here, as westerners.
I have no real sangha but Zenguide, would you ridicule this?
Further, many of the posters (you may know this allready ?) are long time posters and we have been talking for several years together. and understand each others characters,
I can not talk for any of the other forums because i have never visited any, i only know Zenguide.
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Reply from justin
Nov.23.2012
05:35AM EDT
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haha if you are unfamiliar the system it works like this,
today i help you to learn and tomorrow you help me. It is called cooperation.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.23.2012
05:45AM EDT
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Quote: "And I think that is the main motive of all the desire to help others.
In Zen that is very shallow and superficial. The motivation of helping others is nothing but just an egoistic attitude.
"
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In that case, its not egoistic,
its egoistactical, just for a purpose.
How can you tell ? I think in my own case, I see a need for compassion, and I really dont want to part with the money, or expend my own personal energy to help, but I feel an overwhelming compulsion to do so anyway.
To me thats true compassion, when you really dont want to, but you still have to. |
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
08:28AM EDT
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I wrestle with angels. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.23.2012
08:54AM EDT
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Quote: "So you think you have compassion.
"
.........
No, absolutely not ... hahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
09:26AM EDT
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Goodbye. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
11:50AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Wondering why many likes to help others. Telling them what to do.
I think it is ok if you give your money. But if you just give your words of advice. I have seen it in action in many Zen forums. If there is a newbie it seems they swarm to help him.
Does it imply that they have fully helped themselves and thats why they are too ready to help.
"
.........
Here is a difference in the practices of east and west (nothing to do with Zen)
As exampled here on Zen guide much (yes u can use Example as verb check the oed)
the reason why i myself talk so much here is because it is the only Buddhist minded people i am in regular contact with so it helps to bounce ideas and promote investigation.
Leo as you have said you are from the east, in the east Buddhism is common, it is accepted there are monasteries everywhere, the people take Buddhism for granted.
The nearest temple from me is a 4 hour drive, it is nearly 400 kilometers away, obviously not a daily commute.
My culture is christian and therefore the predominant religious theory is Christian.
So if you have heard it all before and see the discussions here as amateurish maybe u should consider the circumstances of many of us here, as westerners.
I have no real sangha but Zenguide, would you ridicule this?
Further, many of the posters (you may know this allready ?) are long time posters and we have been talking for several years together. and understand each others characters,
I can not talk for any of the other forums because i have never visited any, i only know Zenguide.
"
.........
Well I am not ridiculing at all.. I am just talking straight or talking it loud. Sometimes and most of the time if you tell things honestly you will get bad reactions. But I figure that this is the internet where you can talk more open unlike 3d. And this is a Zen Forum so I expect people who comes here had already overcame dogmatic and doctrinal ideas and concepts.
I also have the impression that everything said here is a concept. Concept of this and that. Wondering why most cannot go beyond concepts.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
11:53AM EDT
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Still you don't want to but you are compelled to do so.. Then give your money or property if you are really compassionate. This is true in action. If you just give your words forget it.. |
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Reply from zenmanstan
Nov.24.2012
07:25PM EDT
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lifes a musical |
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Reply from Woodsman
Nov.24.2012
07:42PM EDT
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Helping others is blissful, especially caring for those in total dependency. We are family. |
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.24.2012
09:11PM EDT
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Quote: "Helping others is blissful, especially caring for those in total dependency. We are family.
"
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Well I think that is the same as giving money if you don't hve time to spend with them and serve them.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
07:53AM EDT
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I poour it out, you drink it in. |
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Reply from *CSEe*
Nov.25.2012
07:59PM EDT
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In human knowledge FROM MY UNDERSTANDING -being compassionate is doing "good deed" to others , charity, sincere caring for others , love etc ......all these action / experience in my current understanding is resulted from a desire / will or even self realization ........perhaps I could put it into a few cases :-
Case A :-
A helps others with beliefs his action will benefit others .
Case B":-
B helps others out of his realization others in need .
Case C :-
C helps others out of his realization that is his role .
Case D :-
D helps others as part of his nature without any emotion or expectation
perhaps there are more if I continue to explore on human knowledge .
So in my current understanding A,B.C,D....will creates more emotions , fill in more emotions into their self and increasing their self .....their actions will always contribute to think " who they are".......
I have a rather different view regard to compassion in Buddhism .
In my current view , buddhism is a PROCESS leading to emptying self not increasing self ,,,so as I accepted Buddhism more and more , I will realized I am same and equal to all being , nothing is attached or owned by me nor my family even my body ..........so I will see others in me and see me in others .........I will continue to acept SAME and EQUAL .......further to this process I will feel no special love as my daughter (who I love with all mylife now) is same as the leaf outside your house , mybody is the same and equal as the pen on the table , so I will love all SAME and EQUAL ...I will give ( NOT NOW OKEY ) to all as nothing belong to me .....I will care for others same as the care to my mother ....and I will never have any emotions for all my " good deed " even I donated my life to others ....... in fact by doing " good deed" I am releasing my polluted energy not increase it .............so my logic is by accepting Buddhism concept of being awake to aware ...I will reliaze WHAT I am and the attachment on " Who I am" or "the self" in me will decreased.......as my attachment to myself decreased , I will accept what I am ....and I will know no choice except being " compasionate" but this realization of " compassion" is never the same as what I know from knowledge.........
Thks
CSEe |
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
08:07PM EDT
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Suffering with A to Z. |
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Reply from justin
Nov.26.2012
10:05AM EDT
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Quote: "Still you don't want to but you are compelled to do so.. Then give your money or property if you are really compassionate. This is true in action. If you just give your words forget it..
"
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I own what i can put in a backpack.and that is all, i have given everything else away. :)
long ago, (oh well at least a year and half)
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Reply from justin
Nov.26.2012
10:06AM EDT
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i have offered my services for several years free of charge to teach people English, on top of my pay job.
:) all true,
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Reply from justin
Nov.26.2012
10:09AM EDT
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my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
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Reply from starduster
Nov.26.2012
10:45AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Helping others is blissful, especially caring for those in total dependency. We are family. "
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Well I think that is the same as giving money if you don't hve time to spend with them and serve them.
"
.........
I wash peoples feet with my tears....
(Yeah, right, ha ha ha)
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.26.2012
05:58PM EDT
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Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
"
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I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
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Reply from justin
Nov.27.2012
08:17AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
"
.........
I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
"
.........
i am attatched to this bike, avisitor, it am chained to registration, i am chained to the image, i am chained to the adrenaline from the speed, i am chained to the thrill, i am chained to the idea of being a motorcycle rider (the identity of which i know better really) but that is me. i cannot say what chains or does not chain u :)
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Reply from starduster
Nov.27.2012
10:31AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
"
.........
I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
"
.........
i am attatched to this bike, avisitor, it am chained to registration, i am chained to the image, i am chained to the adrenaline from the speed, i am chained to the thrill, i am chained to the idea of being a motorcycle rider (the identity of which i know better really) but that is me. i cannot say what chains or does not chain u :)
"
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Some years back, a friend who no longer had a motorcycle still had a helmet and I offered to buy it from him. He thought for a moment, then shook his head and said *No*.
He couldn't part with it, because it would mean giving up a part of himself.
At present, I don't have a motorcycle. But I have a couple of helmets left over, and no intention of parting with them. I will get another bike, down the line. My old one just got too old, 33 years (1979 750 Honda LTD), and it was hard to find parts.
I dont feel like I have to go 100mph all the time, like when I was young, but I do enjoy an open air ride in the countryside. |
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Reply from BlankName
Nov.27.2012
03:38PM EDT
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Together; An Indomitable Will ~ Compassion |
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Reply from nibble
Nov.27.2012
04:19PM EDT
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Ha, knew it, walking around with helmet.. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.27.2012
05:28PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
"
.........
I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
"
.........
i am attatched to this bike, avisitor, it am chained to registration, i am chained to the image, i am chained to the adrenaline from the speed, i am chained to the thrill, i am chained to the idea of being a motorcycle rider (the identity of which i know better really) but that is me. i cannot say what chains or does not chain u :)
"
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Well, if you feel that way about it then I would say that you are too attached to your bike.
But, if it were a woman instead then would you also be looking to get rid of her??
My belief is that awakening adds to our life and enriches our experiences.
Why would it mean that we must lose everything we love??
I'm sorry. That is just my understanding. I could be so very wrong.
I love my wife and child. And, would never give them up like the Buddha did with his ...
It may be a big attachment but enlightenment should not require one to give up love.
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Reply from justin
Nov.27.2012
11:53PM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
"
.........
I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
"
.........
i am attatched to this bike, avisitor, it am chained to registration, i am chained to the image, i am chained to the adrenaline from the speed, i am chained to the thrill, i am chained to the idea of being a motorcycle rider (the identity of which i know better really) but that is me. i cannot say what chains or does not chain u :)
"
.........
Well, if you feel that way about it then I would say that you are too attached to your bike.
But, if it were a woman instead then would you also be looking to get rid of her??
My belief is that awakening adds to our life and enriches our experiences.
Why would it mean that we must lose everything we love??
I'm sorry. That is just my understanding. I could be so very wrong.
I love my wife and child. And, would never give them up like the Buddha did with his ...
It may be a big attachment but enlightenment should not require one to give up love.
"
.........
aha, yes i understand this. Hard as it is that love i have for the open road (and haha i totally understand stars perspective on the helmet :) ) will cause me pain and i will suffer loss (at some point i will not be able to ride, someone could steel my bike etc) it is an alltogether precarious hook to hang my happiness on.
your wife and child will cause you pain and suffering (i should say your attachment to them will) i am not by any means advocating leaving them no way!!! but that attachment will cause you to suffer, doubtless.
you wife might look at another man, you daughter will leave, you may decide you w2ant something else, many many ways to suffer.
but that is life hey :)
until we need it no more,
the question is why did you get married in the first place ?
I can guarentee u it was ego related. (i say this from my experience).
thanks for the thoughts,
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Reply from BlankName
Nov.28.2012
01:15AM EDT
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Transcend thought, thought is creative, creativity is love, over love, back to normal, good. |
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Reply from starduster
Nov.28.2012
04:10AM EDT
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "my last hurdle is my motorcycle, i am working on that (freeing myself from it, i have been riding since i was seven years old so it is a old cherished habit) . but it gets me to work.
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I don't believe objects with sentimental value are hurdles to be liberated.
When sad, we cry ... when happy, we smile
When we become awakened, I certainly hope we don't lose our compassion and ability to love and care for people and things with so much meaning.
Thanks for istening
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i am attatched to this bike, avisitor, it am chained to registration, i am chained to the image, i am chained to the adrenaline from the speed, i am chained to the thrill, i am chained to the idea of being a motorcycle rider (the identity of which i know better really) but that is me. i cannot say what chains or does not chain u :)
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My belief is that awakening adds to our life and enriches our experiences.
Why would it mean that we must lose everything we love??
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Awakening only made riding my motorcycle that much better,
not more or less attached to it.
Awakening enables you to live more in the moment,
without distracting thoughts and concerns,
Its these thoughts and concerns to which one is less attached. |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.28.2012
10:04AM EDT
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Quote: "aha, yes i understand this. Hard as it is that love i have for the open road (and haha i totally understand stars perspective on the helmet :) ) will cause me pain and i will suffer loss (at some point i will not be able to ride, someone could steel my bike etc) it is an alltogether precarious hook to hang my happiness on.
your wife and child will cause you pain and suffering (i should say your attachment to them will) i am not by any means advocating leaving them no way!!! but that attachment will cause you to suffer, doubtless.
you wife might look at another man, you daughter will leave, you may decide you w2ant something else, many many ways to suffer.
but that is life hey :)
until we need it no more,
the question is why did you get married in the first place ?
I can guarentee u it was ego related. (i say this from my experience).
thanks for the thoughts,
"
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Love doesn't cause suffering. Attachment and clinging does. Craving and ignorance are the reasons.
I got married because I loved her. And, I didn't want to spend my life alone. Ego related?
Yeah, all things in this life is .. in some way, related to our egos.
Will I suffer a loss when things change? Certainly ...
When a loved one dies or suffers, it is only natural to feel ...
I would not have it any other way.
But, I won't cling to those thoughts and emotions as I would have before.
I won't yearn for the time to re-live the past.
I don't know how to explain it. Other than to say, I accept the present moment for what it is.
If it means grieving then I grieve. If it means moving on then I move on. If it means living then I live. If it means dying then I die.
Whatever it is ...
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Reply from justin
Nov.29.2012
01:00AM EDT
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I got married because I loved her
precisely what i am talking about, :)
when u over for your own reasons (i love her) you are attached
when you love to bring her something it is not so attached.
it all comes down to the motive, if you love to bring to her, you can never loose because even if she is gone it still is good for her, but if she leaves you and you married because you love where do you go from there, except painsville. (if she does not continue to give you what it is you want)
when you love for her sake, nothing can stop you giving her what you want. (your love)
but do not listen to me, i dont know sh*t.
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.29.2012
08:17PM EDT
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Falling in love and getting married is to become attached to your mate.
If the time comes to part (whatever the reasons), you will do so with a heart that loves and moves on.
There is nothing wrong with loving and becoming attached to your loved ones.
It is the clinging to keeping everything the same that hurts.
Suffering is wanting things to stay the same .. to not change.
Being able to let go ... that lets the suffering cease and move on.
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Reply from justin
Nov.30.2012
01:34AM EDT
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'is to become attached to your mate'
to become attached to your love for your mate, and what it is this means to you.
I understand what you mean it is a wonderful experience to be in love, and it can be very fulfilling until it is taken away.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.30.2012
07:22AM EDT
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Two whole people love each other disinterestedly.
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Reply from Chryseis
Nov.30.2012
08:38AM EDT
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pulp fiction |
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.30.2012
08:42AM EDT
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Truth needs fiction to make it plausible. How else would you distinguish between them? |
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Reply from Avisitor
Nov.30.2012
03:46PM EDT
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Quote: " 'is to become attached to your mate'
to become attached to your love for your mate, and what it is this means to you.
I understand what you mean it is a wonderful experience to be in love, and it can be very fulfilling until it is taken away.
"
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Attached to my mate is lving life and loving her.
Living in the present is to experience a wonderful life.
Not living in fear of it being taken away
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ZEN 1