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  A soldier came to Hakuin and asked "Is there really a paradise and a hell?" "Who are you?" inquired Hakuin. "I am a samurai," the warrior replied. "You, a samurai!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard?... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: PARADOX
vertical line Posted on Nov.23.2012 @ 12:20PM EDT by leoj99

What is Paradox.

Zen thrives in Paradox. And sometimes paradox is taken as rude and offensive. They take it by the surface or by the cover.

Most of the time people say you be humble. But my observation is that the most dangerous beings are very humble.

What do you think.

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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
12:21PM EDT 
vertical line But very humble people talk and talk about humility and holiness.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147776
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
12:22PM EDT 
vertical line Which is actually very rude because they think you don't know anything.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147777
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
12:26PM EDT 
vertical line Sorry I am just trying to spark a discussion as Zenguide says...S"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147778
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
12:58PM EDT 
vertical line Wow I am not a thinking man but I have so many topics. I better stop it.

But on the second thought - that is the Paradox....hahaha.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
01:26PM EDT 
vertical line A gaseous vertebrate in a balanced state of destruction.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "A gaseous vertebrate in a balanced state of destruction. "
.........

So what is a vertebrate...
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
02:18PM EDT 
vertical line The Virgin Mary.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147792
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:21PM EDT 
vertical line This is a real Paradox.

Waking Up
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147793
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
02:27PM EDT 
vertical line The Virgin Mary and the Whore of Babylone are one and the same. That's why giving money to the poor harms the spirit. And is possibly also why you may be full of shirt.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 147795
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:41PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The Virgin Mary and the Whore of Babylone are one and the same. That's why giving money to the poor harms the spirit. And is possibly also why you may be full of shirt."
.........

That is ok with me I am full of shirrrt....lol
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:42PM EDT 
vertical line But I think they are infected...
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.23.2012
02:43PM EDT 
vertical line So may I ask what is your spirit looks like.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.23.2012
03:09PM EDT 
vertical line I don't have one but I do have a 3D sphere I can cut up into bits.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.24.2012
07:07AM EDT 
vertical line Then I can reassemble those bits into two perfect spheres of the exact same size as the original sphere. That's paradox.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.24.2012
12:38PM EDT 
vertical line Is this Paradox?

Alan Watts - On Nothingness
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.24.2012
02:05PM EDT 
vertical line I am from the East but I am posting videos from the West.

Ah real Paradox..
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
07:46AM EDT 
vertical line Ah, you don't understand paradox.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Nov.25.2012
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line I refer to the Banach-Tarski Paradox - a child of the axiom of choice.
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
12:19PM EDT 
vertical line Quote:
Zen is paradoxical because Zen is not a philosophy. Zen is not concerned about what life is, Zen is concerned that whatsoever is should be reflected as it is. One should not choose, because the moment you choose it becomes untrue. Choice brings untruth. Don't choose, remain choiceless -- and you remain true.

But that's what you do: you fall in love with a woman and you start choosing. Soon you will be in trouble. You don't see the woman as she is, you only see that which is good and you overlook all which is not good. There are a thousand and one things in her -- a few are good, a few are bad, that's how people are made. God never makes goodie-goodies -- they would be very dull and dead, they wouldn't have any backbone, they would be bloodless. He makes alive people. And each person has something that you like and something that you don't like -- because he has not been tailored especially for you, he has not been made for you, he has not come out of an assembly line in a factory. He is unique. He is himself and she is herself.

When you fall in love with a woman, you start choosing. You overlook many things. Yes, sometimes you feel she gets angry but you overlook it, you don't take any notice of it. You just see the goddess, you don't see the witch. The witch is there. No goddess can exist without a witch otherwise the goddess would not be worth anything. She will be too good to be enjoyed, too good to be loved. And you don't want to worship a woman, you want to love a woman. You want a woman to be human not a goddess.

Unquote

Osho - Zen is paradoxical because Zen is not a philosophy

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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
12:24PM EDT 
vertical line Question - Why is Zen Paradoxical?
Osho
- because life is paradoxical and Zen is a simple mirror-reflection of life. Zen is not a
philosophy. Philosophies are never paradoxical, philosophies are very logical -- because philosophies are mind-constructions. Man makes them. They are manufactured by man. They are manmade, tailored, logically arranged, comfortably arranged so that you can believe in them. All those parts which go against the construction have been dropped, rooted out, thrown away. Philosophies don't reflect life as such; they are chosen from life. They are not raw, they are cultured constructions.
 
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
12:27PM EDT 
vertical line So how do you make cultured constructions... thinking...
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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
01:08PM EDT 
vertical line Quote:

Just a hundred and fifty years ago Immanuel Kant came across this fact in Germany. He said that reason is very limited; it sees only a certain part of reality and starts believing 'that this is the whole. This has been the trouble. Sooner or later we discover further realities and the old whole is in conflict with the new vision. Immanuel Kant attempted to show that there were ineluctable limits to reason, that reason is very limited. But nobody seems to have heard, nobody has cared about Immanuel Kant. Nobody cares much about philosophers.

But science in this century has at last caught up with Kant. Now Heinsenberg, in physics, and Godel, in mathematics, have shown ineluctable limits to human reason. They open up to us a glimpse of a nature which is irrational and paradoxical to the very core. Whatsoever we have been saying about nature has all gone wrong. All principles go wrong because nature is not synonymous with reason, nature is bigger than reason. And Zen is not a philosophy; Zen is a mirror, it is a reflection of that which is. As it is, Zen says the same. It does not bring any man-made philosophy into it, it has no choice, it does not add, it does not delete. That's why Zen is paradoxical -- because life is paradoxical. You just see and you will understand.

Unquote


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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
01:14PM EDT 
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Zen says that if you say that God is good then a problem arises: then from where does the bad come, from where does the evil come? That's what religions have done -- Christianity, Islam, Judaism, have separated God and Devil. The evil comes from Devil and all good comes from God. God means the good. But from where does this Devil come? Then they are in trouble and then finally they have to concede that God created the Devil too -- but what is the point in going in such a roundabout way? If the Devil is also created by God then God remains the sole signature on existence, then God remains the sole author. So whatsoever is happening is happening through him -- and he is paradoxical. That's what Zen says. God is paradoxical, as paradoxical as existence itself. God is nothing but another name for existence, for the totality of existence.

Once you understand this paradoxicality, a great silence arises in you. Then there is no choice -- there is no point in it -- then things are together. You cannot become a saint because if you want to become a saint you will have to deny your devil; you will have to cut yourself into two parts. You will have to force your devil somewhere into your belly and the devil will remain there and will go on sabotaging your sainthood.

Zen brings great health to humanity. It says you are both. Accept both. Don't deny, don't choose; accept both. In that acceptance there is a transcendence, in that very acceptance you are neither a saint nor a devil. That is what a holy man is -- neither good nor bad, or both. And when a person is both, knowingly both, those opposites cancel each other. Just try to understand this; it is one of the most fundamental keys. When you accept both the good and the bad and you don't choose, the bad and good cancel out each other, the negative and the positive cancel out each other. Suddenly there is silence, there is neither good nor bad; there is only existence, with no judgement. Zen is non-judgemental, it is non-condemning, it is non-evaluating. It gives you utter freedom to be.

Unquote


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Reply from leoj99
Nov.25.2012
01:30PM EDT 
vertical line I heard many times that Osho is not a Zen Teacher. But how come he knows Zen very well. In fact he knows all of Zen.
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