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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SIGNS YOU CAN EASILY VERIFY OF ENLIGHTENMENT.
vertical line Posted on Dec.28.2012 @ 02:18AM EDT by leoj99
There are signs if you are enlightened that you can easily verify.

1. If most people makes sense to you it is safe to say you are   unenlightened. But those few enlightened beings in this world does not at all makes sense to you.

2. If about half of people makes sense to you you maybe a little bit enlightened.

3. If almost all people does not makes sense to you and you can recognized the very few enlightened beings you can safely say you are enlightened.

If most of what people write in Zen Forums make sense to you definitely you are not yet enlightened...lol

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Reply from QuantumZen
Dec.28.2012
03:22AM EDT 
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vertical line Everything makes perfect sense to me. I must be perfectly enlightened in the wrong direction xD
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.28.2012
03:46AM EDT 
vertical line You mean all the suffering in this world perfectly make sense to you?

And I think too much talk indicates the deepness of suffering..
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Reply from QuantumZen
Dec.28.2012
03:54AM EDT 
Email QuantumZen
vertical line Yes even the suffering. It comes directly from the lack of wisdom or awareness. Become aware and you will stop suffering. What do you mean by "makes sense"? I know the cause of it, I understand the rules of the game (laws of nature). Would I like it to be different? Yes. But instead of creating an emotional response I take actions. If you see a hungry man, feed him instead of starting to feel hungry yourself.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Dec.28.2012
04:00AM EDT 
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vertical line Moreover that's just the way it is. I mean, our universe is in a stage of bringing life about. Life is a complex system of emotions, consciousnesses and everything else there is to it. As long as there is life in our universe there will be arbitrary distinctions of good and bad, happiness and sadness and hence suffering will exist. There will be a time when the universe will be empty, with no mind to perceive it, no things or life forms to exist in it. Then it will make just as perfect sense as it does now. I like the analogy that everything (The One- Atman or whatever name you like) is a child in his sand box. He plays for no reason, he creates the rules. And then he goes to sleep.
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.28.2012
04:38AM EDT 
vertical line You mean all the long talks in the Zen Forums make sense to you?
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Reply from QuantumZen
Dec.28.2012
05:21AM EDT 
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vertical line How else would you probe the reality and ideas of zen? I read about zen in a book made out of tons of words. I talked and heard about it. You must use social conventions to share your insights. Even when the most important message is that only yourself can achieve it and that there is nothing to achieve in the first place. This is like alcoholism treatment :) First you start by lowering the intake of words and thoughts every day and finally you don't need thoughts. You are healthy (awake). There are some stories about instantaneous enlightenment but it always involves a genius of a zen master.
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Reply from QuantumZen
Dec.28.2012
05:28AM EDT 
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vertical line I agree with you. Some of these talks are... a bit useless. Or not-very-beneficial so to say. I just don't read those (80 post of fighting over who's thought was better :)). But some of them are very good. I have gained insights from some posts. They helped and directed me.
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.28.2012
08:37AM EDT 
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vertical line there is no enlightenment..only hard work...the mind with its eye on a prize that simply doesnt exist...falters and years are spent with a sore bottom from sitting on an old worn out pillow...
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.28.2012
11:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "there is no enlightenment..only hard work...the mind with its eye on a prize that simply doesnt exist...falters and years are spent with a sore bottom from sitting on an old worn out pillow..."
.........

So why do you work hard then .. if not for enlightenment?

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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.28.2012
11:40AM EDT 
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vertical line in these forums there are differing interpretations of each posters ideas...i like it here..so i as well as you will have to get to know each others minds.i will try to be transparent in my topics and posts..i cant answer that question Leo for you. That is your mind questioning ..not mine..i will tell you i work hard but not for some pie in the sky..compassion and kindness are certainly a top reason i strive.....non violence in my daily actions and thoughts...these actions are more than enough for me at this time. talking about something called enlightenment is simply to far fetched in my little world..thanks..
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.28.2012
12:05PM EDT 
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vertical line Enlightenment is present within each experience, it's included in everything, everywhere and everybody. I think I left one out... timeless, formless, ageless, gateless gate.
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.28.2012
01:36PM EDT 
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vertical line woodsmen are you sure?
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.28.2012
01:45PM EDT 
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vertical line Sureness is solid and fixed, and at times we think we are, but being and becoming aren't ends to reach, accept what is now, or rejected. 
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.28.2012
04:00PM EDT 
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vertical line in sureness we can find uncertainty.in darkness there must be lite.the duality of everything. what is contained in every experience is unique. but unreliable...best regards..owm
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.28.2012
10:38PM EDT 
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vertical line nomduality merges opposites without cause or effect creating them differently
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.29.2012
02:48AM EDT 
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vertical line if one says nonduality, then instantly there is duality, if one merges opposites then they fly apart in the very next breath. one can not contain the minds prediliction for adversity.....
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.29.2012
10:20AM EDT 
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vertical line ring ring two ears that sing by themselves two as one sound with no thing to see as source
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.29.2012
12:36PM EDT 
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vertical line woodsman begin again
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.29.2012
01:04PM EDT 
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vertical line just did on a ski out back --- perfect glide and trails to follow... and some blue sky even--- ja hoo ya! i haven't had a shower in over a week, and proud of it, saves on gas!
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
02:09PM EDT 
vertical line When you think you are always in duality. Thinking is nothing but comparative thinking. You always see things from a background.
When you stop thinking then there is nothing but unity, oneness, beyond any duality. When you think again then duality is back.
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
02:11PM EDT 
vertical line You can always check it out yourself. Do the experiment.

Not thinking is enlightenment!
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.29.2012
03:29PM EDT 
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vertical line no talk
           no talker
                          no talking
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.29.2012
03:30PM EDT 
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vertical line leo....begin again
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:11PM EDT 
vertical line Ok try it.. Can you be out of duality if you are always thinking?
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:14PM EDT 
vertical line If you are thinking of oneness, emptiness and always talk about it in your lifetime are you in oneness and in emptiness...

I guess most people are just talking about oneness and emptiness but why are they always talking about it if they really experienced oneness and emptiness..lol
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:16PM EDT 
vertical line If you are always thinking about oneness and emptiness.. guess what happens...
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.29.2012
04:23PM EDT 
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vertical line leo..when we attempt to define the indefinable we just wind deeper in dukkha than ever. giving out instructions that fly in the face of the Buddhas own teachings just results again in extreme dukkha..then we show just how little we know...leo my friend you need to take your own advice and quiet that eager to impress mind down and stop thinking so much...be well..owm
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:44PM EDT 
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Different levels of Oneness and Enlightenment.
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:47PM EDT 
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"You are so smart, you even conned Life!"
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:53PM EDT 
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The Trappings of the Intellect & Mind.
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:53PM EDT 
vertical line The way you emote is the way you think...
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:54PM EDT 
vertical line Emotions and thinking has no significance...lol
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
04:55PM EDT 
vertical line I love Jesus... It is always easy to love someone you have not met..lol.
We always love the dead...
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Reply from football
Dec.29.2012
05:00PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line wrong
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Reply from football
Dec.29.2012
05:04PM EDT 
Email football
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Quote: "Not thinking is enlightenment!"
.........

Not thinking-thought is enlightenment!

guess

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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
05:45PM EDT 
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Awaken Third Eye & Kundalini
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.29.2012
10:26PM EDT 
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MIND - Master Seung Sahn

The Buddha taught about mind. For forty years, he talked about Dharma. His whole teaching was concerned with how you can use Dharma to attain your mind. Attaining your mind actually means losing mind. The Buddha’s teaching is that when you have mind, you get suffering, and you have a problem. If you have no mind, then everything is no problem. So if you want to take away suffering, you must take away mind, which means cutting your attachment to thinking. When you practice hard and keep a great don’t-know, you see that you already have no mind. Already having no mind, why would you possibly need sutras? Why would you need dharma speeches and explanation? If you are not sick, why eat medicine? If you have no mind, then sutras are not necessary, dharma speeches are not necessary, Buddha’s teachings are not necessary, everything is not necessary. But human beings constantly delude themselves, Everybody thinks they have mind, and then they hold their mind, and get suffering, So then sutras are necessary, dharma speeches and explanations are necessary, and everything is necessary. This is already a mistake! Collapse this post
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.30.2012
01:29AM EDT 
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vertical line it is neither mind or no mind neither coming in or going out the four noble truths define a simple life people are frustrated who seek the mountain top..so they develop there own dharma...which of course is simply illusion personified.. they make grand statments like no thinking is enlightenment..which of course it isnt... right thought is the correct path,,,right action the correct path..the middleway..that is the correct route..
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.30.2012
03:27AM EDT 
vertical line So could you please give an example of right thought. What is the middle way...?
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Reply from leoj99
Dec.30.2012
03:43AM EDT 
vertical line And what is right action..?
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Reply from oldwinemak
Dec.30.2012
06:03AM EDT 
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vertical line the eightfold path is what you should study as we all should..this is where you will find the BUDDHAS TEACHING...good luck..owm
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Reply from Woodsman
Dec.30.2012
09:41AM EDT 
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vertical line having     here      not      here        no         here         go           ho ho  ho      hear?
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Dec.31.2012
03:36PM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line There are signs if you are enlightened that you can easily verify.

If almost all people does not makes sense to you and you can recognized the very few enlightened beings you can safely say you are enlightened.

Note: The letters in bold should be left out in order for the sentence to be correct.

All I can say Leo is that you've never made any sense to me and this is the surest sign that I must be enlightened.  But I knew that anyway.  You've just confirmed it. Om shanti :)

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Reply from leoj99
Dec.31.2012
11:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "There are signs if you are enlightened that you can easily verify.

If almost all people does not makes sense to you and you can recognized the very few enlightened beings you can safely say you are enlightened.

Note: The letters in bold should be left out in order for the sentence to be correct.

All I can say Leo is that you've never made any sense to me and this is the surest sign that I must be enlightened.  But I knew that anyway.  You've just confirmed it. Om shanti :)

"
.........

Well I admit I am not good in English as good as you Westerners.. But I think you understand what it means..
Are you an English Teacher?

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Reply from justin
Jan.02.2013
01:37PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line recognise does not have a z :)

this is a sure case of ad hoinum
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Jan.03.2013
08:45AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Quote: "recognise does not have a z :)

this is a sure case of ad hoinum
"
......

Recognise can be spelt with a 'z' or an 's'. Either is acceptable. Check it out on google. 

And I take it you mean 'ad hominem' not  'ad hoinum'.  So I guess people in glass houses.

Besides, I apologized (with a 'z') to Leoj for correcting his English and he said no apology was necessary, not that it's got anything to do with you whether I correct his English or not. 

And if I want to refute any of Leoj's arguments, I'm perfectly capable of using logic and reason without correcting his English as I've done many times in the past.

You're just reading something into what I said that isn't there, apart from your own mind, not that that's anything unusual on this site. 
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Reply from Sam Hardy
Jan.03.2013
09:06AM EDT 
Email Sam Hardy
vertical line Back to topic:

What about weird designs of the soles of your feet?

Do these mean anything?
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Reply from zenisin
Jan.04.2013
11:04AM EDT 
Email zenisin
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People are strange when you're a stranger, faces look ugly, when you're alone.

Does solitude and enlightenment go together?

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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.04.2013
01:50PM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line in solitude questions end
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Reply from football
Jan.04.2013
03:25PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line speculation
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Reply from Woodsman
Jan.05.2013
11:04AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line the value of words drift off to sea 
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