 |
| →→→→ |
 |
TOPIC: MEETING REALITY |
|
|
|
Posted on Mar.11.2013 @ 04:16PM EDT by Riverstone
Reality is not negotiable, there is no compromise with what is. It simply is. Once this has been arrived at, then adaptation can occur. An abundant amount of time and energy can be conserved in meeting the experience, rather than entertaining the tantrum.
|
|
↓Go to Latest Reply
|
→Reply to this Topic
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.11.2013
06:53PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Saying that reality is not negotiable ... does that mean it is absolute??
Absolute in the way that several people observe the same phenomena would see and feel the same thing??
For me, reality has always been dependent upon where my mind stood.
And, since not everyone has my mind, they see things differently..
Entertaining the tantrum??
While observing myself, I have observed such things.
I call it thoughts feeding the emotional rant.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150373
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.11.2013
07:16PM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
To me , reality is not something of my concern , not to think about or imagine what is that , or trying to focus into it ..or even perform any practice for it......is not something we find and attached into it because in my current understanding , Buddhism is the PROCESS that involve all experiences , discovery , understanding , knowing by being awake , without having any faith to learn on all possibilities , without having any confident in ownselves , without having any beliefs ............without resistance to learn ......is Buddhism .
nothing is real or will be real ..because if it is real , we will never in condition to notice it or know it ...
Thks
CSEe |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150374
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.11.2013
07:34PM EDT
|
|
ty And iuf one diccests realiyty anf get top the bottom of garble sreeech error error... dave... I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you. Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150375
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.11.2013
11:13PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
one-empty-infinite |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150376
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
12:43AM EDT
|
|
Most every person has different reality. So it must be negotiable. It depends. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150377
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
12:44AM EDT
|
|
See how no one can agree with one thing...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150378
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
01:21AM EDT
|
|
Look at the Zen Forums they are talking of the same things over and over again. They cannot even agree on Zazen. Weather they sit with breath awareness or no breath. Weather they close their eyes or not... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150379
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
01:23AM EDT
|
|
Weather they need a teacher or not. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150380
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
01:33AM EDT
|
|
I saw in the other forum they cannot recognize a true zen teacher. So how can they recognize reality when they cannot detect if a zen teacher is real or not. Yet they have been discussing those things for years as far as I know. lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150381
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.12.2013
02:47AM EDT
|
|
They propose that you see a true zen teacher according the words of Dogen. But then there is no Dogen now so you could ask what he really meant. How do you know what he meant was like reality that everyone has his own interpretation. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150382
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Riverstone
Mar.12.2013
12:59PM EDT
|
|
The experience of naked reality is where the running commentary of an addictive frame of reference either ceases, or at the very least is recognised and continuously relinquished. Multiple realities are a product of discursive thought. A being caught up in discursion or Samsara sees the enemy everywhere. A being who sees the interconnection between all things only sees the one process, no nose, no eye and so on. While it is true after a fashion that a tree can be uprooted and examined as if it were an independent object. That tree is dependent on the soil, the sun, rain, air, and so on. It is not an independently arising process but a part of a larger integrated process, which is one. When I am engaged with the frame of reference called "me", the world can become dog eat dog. When this reference point is lifted compassion is second nature.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150385
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.12.2013
03:39PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
So you are not talking about reality
Just like when we talk about emptiness ... we don't really mean emptiness as in no existence.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150386
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.13.2013
01:11AM EDT
|
|
It looks to me that your reality is so complicated. It has so many aspects and wear so many faces. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150387
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.13.2013
01:55AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "It looks to me that your reality is so complicated. It has so many aspects and wear so many faces.
"
.........
Are you talking about me or Riverstone?
I am willing to explain. Just ask ... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150388
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.13.2013
04:55AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
I can sometimes understand the words of the teacher
And sometimes it is all very confusing
So even when one listens to the words from the wise, it isn't always wisdom
Why? Cuz the lesson must be made in a way the student can understand
Other wise it is just all non sense ... hahaha
I can see from where one stands in the stream
It shows his Karma and his understanding
The words try to make sense and then the ego bounces back and trumps the scene
Entertaining the tantrum ... feeding the rant ... playing the hostage ... hahaha
What there is ... is ....
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150389
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.14.2013
12:52AM EDT
|
|
I think that is the result of discussing too much about reality, zen and anything. It becomes so complicated. Isn't it very obvious specially in zen forums? Then they never come to agree on one thing..lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150390
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.14.2013
12:57AM EDT
|
|
Like the most discussed words as enlightenment, emptiness, nothingness, oneness, non-duality none of them are fully understood. Only the endless discussions which seems complicates everything. Like reality everyone has his own reality. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150391
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.14.2013
03:20AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "I think that is the result of discussing too much about reality, zen and anything. It becomes so complicated. Isn't it very obvious specially in zen forums? Then they never come to agree on one thing..lol
"
.........
Yes, people do agree ... when they come to experience the same reality
It is only complicated by people like you who keep going on and on about nothing ... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150392
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.14.2013
04:25AM EDT
|
|
Are you sure? How about you are Riverstone...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150393
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.14.2013
04:26AM EDT
|
|
How about you and Riverstone...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150394
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.14.2013
10:16AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "Are you sure? How about you are Riverstone...lol
How about you and Riverstone...lol
"
.........
Well, I'm sure that I am not Riverstone ... hahaha
When Riverstone speaks, I listen cause I know from where he speaks
What he says has that ring of truth to it.
Yes, sometimes, it comes from a place from which I have yet to experience
That is when you hear the same things from the sutras
They try so much to use language to describe their experience and it wraps upon it self like plastic wrap.
Not being able to see the beginning nor the end, the clarity being clouded by how many times it goes round and round.
It becomes hard to understand everything.
And, so I practice and practice ... hahaha
Never argue with a madman ... you can never win ... hahahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150395
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.14.2013
06:53PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Seeing into one's mind and meeting reality I am the Suchness of this moment. In relation to the Universe I am nothing and in relation to Body-Mind the Universe is nothing. To resolve duality is the practice of Zen.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150396
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.15.2013
01:34AM EDT
|
|
I remember when I was new to Zen practice the Theosophical Society which I was a member invited our Sensei as a Guest Speaker one Sunday afternoon to talk about Zen. So I was somehow excited when I talked to my Sensei and asked him that is a good opportunity to tell them about Zen. But he said what I can I tell about Zen? So when the Sunday came we went and attend the lecture. He ended up talking how to sit zazen and talked a little bit about the history of Zen in my country. And thats all for the Sunday afternoon. It seems the theosophical society members were not impressed. In the Theosophy its all study and lectures.
That was my first cue on Zen practice. No talking.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150397
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.15.2013
04:08AM EDT
|
|
Imagine many people are always talking of Emptiness.
Wondering how can you talk about something empty.
Isn't it common sense to see that if you talk about emptiness your words are just more empty..lol
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150398
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.15.2013
04:29AM EDT
|
|
But at least if you stop talking you can feel that there is emptiness. The sense of emptiness in all beings is a fact. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150399
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.15.2013
10:04AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "Seeing into one's mind and meeting reality I am the Suchness of this moment. In relation to the Universe I am nothing and in relation to Body-Mind the Universe is nothing. To resolve duality is the practice of Zen.
"
.........
I am leery of people who use words as "suchness" and "duality".
Mostly cause what they mean to me may not be the same as they may mean to the user of these words.
Who talks like that?? "I am the suchness of this moment"???
"To resolve duality is the practice of Zen"???
I am a simple person with a simple vocabulary. Sorry.
I don't like ... "From emptiness come all things"
I know what it means but it isn't practical when talking to others who aren't standing in the same place in the stream ... hahaha
There it is again .... hahahahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150400
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.15.2013
02:15PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "Seeing into one's mind and meeting reality I am the Suchness of this moment. In relation to the Universe I am nothing and in relation to Body-Mind the Universe is nothing. To resolve duality is the practice of Zen.
"
.........
I am leery of people who use words as "suchness" and "duality".
Mostly cause what they mean to me may not be the same as they may mean to the user of these words.
Who talks like that?? "I am the suchness of this moment"???
"To resolve duality is the practice of Zen"???
I am a simple person with a simple vocabulary. Sorry.
I don't like ... "From emptiness come all things"
I know what it means but it isn't practical when talking to others who aren't standing in the same place in the stream ... hahaha
There it is again .... hahahahaha
"
.........
Sweet. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150401
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
12:10AM EDT
|
|
You see no one will agree in most discussions...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150402
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
12:14AM EDT
|
|
I saw an student asking Teachers in another Zen Forum if the Zen Path is difficult. One teacher says yes and the other says no....lol.. now who is correct...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150403
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
01:44AM EDT
|
|
And the third one says it is neither difficult nor easy..lol
Are they confusing the student or they are confused themselves..lol
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150404
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
01:46AM EDT
|
|
So how could such discussions be resolved when teachers don't even agree...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150405
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.16.2013
11:46AM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Intelligence answers to the Way. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150406
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.16.2013
12:25PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Be well |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150407
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
02:55PM EDT
|
|
That only show that Reality is negotiable. It depends.. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150409
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
03:07PM EDT
|
|
So the student asked the Teachers if the Zen Path is difficult the teachers says whichever you prefer. So back to zero..lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150410
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2013
03:08PM EDT
|
|
So if such is the case why do we have Zen Teachers in the first place..lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150411
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.17.2013
02:44AM EDT
|
|
It seems all the Teachers there never done and resolved the koan Mu. If they did they would never be caught with such intellectual answers... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150412
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.17.2013
05:06AM EDT
|
|
So the lesson is don't ask zen questions from zen teachers...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150414
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.17.2013
08:53AM EDT
|
|
I saw an student asking Teachers in another Zen Forum if the Zen Path is difficult. One teacher says yes and the other says no....lol.. now who is correct...lol
Would it not depend on whom they were talking to?
And the third one says it is neither difficult nor easy..lol
Are they confusing the student or they are confused themselves..lol
What label do you prefer?
So how could such discussions be resolved when teachers don't even agree...lol
What gain could be had by resolving your discussion?
That only show that Reality is negotiable. It depends..
Depends on what? If u are color-blind or have a misconstrued ear canal?
So the student asked the Teachers if the Zen Path is difficult the teachers says whichever you prefer. So back to zero..lol
Why does choice equal zero?
So if such is the case why do we have Zen Teachers in the first place..lol
Whose case?
It seems all the Teachers there never done and resolved the koan Mu. If they did they would never be caught with such intellectual answers...
Whose questions?
So the lesson is don't ask zen questions from zen teachers...lol
Whose lesson? |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150415
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.17.2013
01:11PM EDT
|
|
So where have you been? ..lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150416
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from justin
Mar.18.2013
10:51AM EDT
→Email justin
|
|
I saw an student asking Teachers in another Zen Forum if the Zen Path is
difficult. One teacher says yes and the other says no....lol.. now who
is correct...lol
both, if i say anything else i lie to you
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150438
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.18.2013
07:23PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Know yourself. In reality it's who you know. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150440
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.18.2013
10:12PM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "Know yourself. In reality it's who you know."
.........
Perhaps is not " who" ...but " what I am"......
Thks
CSEe |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150441
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.19.2013
10:05AM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "I saw an student asking Teachers in another Zen Forum if the Zen Path is difficult. One teacher says yes and the other says no....lol.. now who is correct...lol
both, if i say anything else i lie to you
"
.........
To me , Buddhism is all about own NATURAL process towards emptiness .....there is never " difficult or easy" in the process as there is no comparison from one being to another ........so to me both answer is for own learning process ,. never right or wrong .............is all up to ownselves as in buddhism nothing exist except ownselves .
Thks
CSEe |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150442
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.19.2013
06:59PM EDT
|
|
Quote: "So where have you been? ..lol
"
.........
I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150443
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.19.2013
07:01PM EDT
|
|
I feel much better now. I really do. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150444
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.19.2013
11:23PM EDT
|
|
I think you should just help yourself. Forget the others especially me. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150445
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.19.2013
11:33PM EDT
|
|
If the Zen path is difficult it is understandable if no one gets it. But if it is easy how come no one gets it especially in Zen forums..lol
There must something wrong in those answers.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150446
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.20.2013
12:02AM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "If the Zen path is difficult it is understandable if no one gets it. But if it is easy how come no one gets it especially in Zen forums..lol
There must something wrong in those answers.
"
.........
Perhaps Buddhism is all about learning not teaching ...so perhaps we just need to learn from others action , re-action not to judge them base on our knowledge or even have intention to influence others .....for me , all is teaching me , all is teacher to me but I will never have any reason to be a teacher to any being ........thats my current understanding of Buddhism.
Thks
CSEe |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150447
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.20.2013
12:15AM EDT
|
|
But it is a fact that there are Zen Masters. many living Zen Masters... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150448
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.20.2013
12:36AM EDT
|
|
And if it is neither the more no one gets it...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150449
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.20.2013
02:57AM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "But it is a fact that there are Zen Masters. many living Zen Masters... "
.........
To me , that is human culture . Many people claming as " master" of Buddhism and for years I tried to debate with them by sending e-mail to them etc but to me none had convincing reason for me ...in my current understanding , in Buddhism all being is same and equal , no one is greater or lesser than others because all being is in their own Buddhism process that never connected to others ........so all incident , action or re-action is a source for ownselves discovery and therefore all is " teacher" to me but no one could have any reason to claim himself as teacher ....................I really hope to find out what reason Dalai Lama have to claim as Buddhism master .....
Thks
CSEe |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150450
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.20.2013
03:22AM EDT
|
|
But it is a fact that there are beings that have better understanding than many. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150451
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.20.2013
03:44AM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "But it is a fact that there are beings that have better understanding than many. "
Perhaps yes , in human culture where human base on knowledge as a measurement ....but in my current understanding Buddhism is how much I discover myself so how could I know , how much you know yourself compare to how much I know myself and teach you Buddhism ?
To me , how could Dalai Lama know how much Osama accept Osama ownself compare to how much Dalai Lama accept Dalai Lama self .....to me currently is impossible that anyone including Siddharta to teach Buddhism ......
But in human culture , where human still base on knowledge as the basis yes many seems have reason to declear themselves as teacher base on what they know or even what they had experienced .....to me I can find any reason for anyone to have any reason to think they are " teacher".....except being ego / selfish .....or entertaining "himself"...
Thks
CSEe
......... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150452
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from *CSEe*
Mar.20.2013
03:45AM EDT
→Email *CSEe*
|
|
Quote: "
Quote: "But it is a fact that there are beings that have better understanding than many. "
Perhaps yes , in human culture where human base on knowledge as a measurement ....but in my current understanding Buddhism is how much I discover myself so how could I know , how much you know yourself compare to how much I know myself and teach you Buddhism ?
To me , how could Dalai Lama know how much Osama accept Osama ownself compare to how much Dalai Lama accept Dalai Lama self .....to me currently is impossible that anyone including Siddharta to teach Buddhism ......
But in human culture , where human still base on knowledge as the basis yes many seems have reason to declear themselves as teacher base on what they know or even what they had experienced .....to me I cant find any reason for anyone to have any reason to think they are " teacher".....except being ego / selfish .....or entertaining "himself"...
Thks
CSEe
......... "
......... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150453
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.20.2013
07:24PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
One thing is certain; I Am,
The facts are the facts &
What works is what is Truth. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150455
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.20.2013
08:05PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
"Not relying on the words and letters, Teachings are transmitted outside
the Scriptures; Pointing directly into one's mind, then one can see
into his own nature and attains Buddhahood."
This is the principle ... plain and simple
Why do you complicate it???
"All the teachings of the Buddha and Zen masters are for practicing and not only reading."
So, do you practice??
It begins simply and ends ... never .... hahahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150456
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.20.2013
08:42PM EDT
|
|
Quote: "I think you should just help yourself. Forget the others especially me.
"
.........
Why do you think that?:)
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150457
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.21.2013
03:04AM EDT
|
|
Because I think you are not a Zen Master....lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150462
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.21.2013
03:12AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "Because I think you are not a Zen Master....lol
"
.........
You won't find what you're looking for in internet forums or on youtube.
But, you do know where to look ... you just haven't tried to go there ... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150463
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.21.2013
08:11PM EDT
|
|
Quote: "Because I think you are not a Zen Master....lol
"
.........
Well then, I am not:)
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150478
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.21.2013
10:23PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
I'm observing The Great Matter. How about you. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150479
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.22.2013
09:34AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "I'm observing The Great Matter. How about you."
.........
Grey matter ... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150484
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from football
Mar.22.2013
02:49PM EDT
→Email football
|
|
Quote: "
I saw an student asking Teachers in another Zen Forum if the Zen Path is difficult. One teacher says yes and the other says no....lol.. now who is correct...lol
Would it not depend on whom they were talking to?
And the third one says it is neither difficult nor easy..lol
Are they confusing the student or they are confused themselves..lol
What label do you prefer?
So how could such discussions be resolved when teachers don't even agree...lol
What gain could be had by resolving your discussion?
That only show that Reality is negotiable. It depends..
Depends on what? If u are color-blind or have a misconstrued ear canal?
So the student asked the Teachers if the Zen Path is difficult the teachers says whichever you prefer. So back to zero..lol
Why does choice equal zero?
So if such is the case why do we have Zen Teachers in the first place..lol
Whose case?
It seems all the Teachers there never done and resolved the koan Mu. If they did they would never be caught with such intellectual answers...
Whose questions?
So the lesson is don't ask zen questions from zen teachers...lol
Whose lesson? "
.........
There is no Zen Path.There is Zen. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150490
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.22.2013
05:27PM EDT
|
|
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150493
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.23.2013
01:37AM EDT
|
|
It doesn't show... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150494
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from nibble
Mar.23.2013
12:15PM EDT
|
|
Works fine here, U using an outdated version of symbian maybe?:) |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150498
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.23.2013
03:16PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "I'm observing The Great Matter. How about you."
.........
Grey matter ... hahaha
"
.........
Ha, enjoy your Grey matter.
Yet, I'm not only observing the Great Matter, but also observing the World Process. To which makes the meditator happy! |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150502
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.26.2013
01:09AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I'm observing The Great Matter. How about you."
.........
Grey matter ... hahaha
"
.........
Ha, enjoy your Grey matter.
Yet, I'm not only observing the Great Matter, but also observing the World Process. To which makes the meditator happy!"
.........
Meditation is not about making oneself happy
But, if you feel this way then you I am happy for you .... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150563
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
01:12AM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Meditation is what I make it. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150564
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
01:22AM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
I am a Natural. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150565
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
01:26AM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Om |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150566
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.26.2013
09:58AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "Meditation is what I make it."
.........
Yes, you can make an egg any way you want it
But, you can not change the very nature of the egg .... hahaha
Glad to see that you keep your sense of humor .... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150569
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
03:38PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Jump Into Reality!
The facts are the facts,
What works is what is truth &
Remember the expression "liable to." |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150574
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
04:36PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "Meditation is what I make it."
.........
Yes, you can make an egg any way you want it
But, you can not change the very nature of the egg .... hahaha
Glad to see that you keep your sense of humor .... hahaha
"
.........
Nullset {sit} |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150575
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from jordtm
Mar.26.2013
04:49PM EDT
→Email jordtm
|
|
\_/? Tea? |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150576
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Mar.27.2013
06:29PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "\_/? Tea?"
.........
What now?
Do you wish to make tea any way you want it??
Please enjoy ... hahaha
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150587
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Mar.30.2013
12:55PM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "\_/? Tea?"
.........
What now?
Do you wish to make tea any way you want it??
Please enjoy ... hahaha
"
.........
socrates said "I know that I don't know. and that is the beginning of wisdom."
In any case seeing-hearing all sensory data is a brain phenomenon-everything from the senses. So what are we seeing??? Reality? Ha- it is what our brains do. That's all. And that is reality. So science now knows as the old paradigm crumbles that the uncertainty principal was correct after-all. They-Einstein and others said God does not play dice. Reality cannot be like this-a determinant of consciousness. Einstein literally used the word "Spooky". No the determinstic paradigm crumbles because since the late 1990's the work in neurology and physics undermines it. And it has become insurmountable due to the precision and effectiveness of new technology and the result of 100's of experiments.
Zen-it does not matter- the horse and the rider are the same. That is Zen. Pure and simple. Quit complicating it. I know that I don't know-pure and simple. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150621
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.30.2013
01:33PM EDT
|
|
Reality is very simple. You go in the toilet and you cannot think. Thats it...lol..
You don't need Zen Forums to talk forever about reality...lol
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150622
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from football
Mar.30.2013
03:05PM EDT
→Email football
|
|
Quote:
socrates said "I know that I don't know. and that is the beginning of wisdom."
In any case seeing-hearing all sensory data is a brain phenomenon-everything from the senses. So what are we seeing??? Reality? Ha- it is what our brains do. That's all. And that is reality. So science now knows as the old paradigm crumbles that the uncertainty principal was correct after-all. They-Einstein and others said God does not play dice. Reality cannot be like this-a determinant of consciousness. Einstein literally used the word "Spooky". No the determinstic paradigm crumbles because since the late 1990's the work in neurology and physics undermines it. And it has become insurmountable due to the precision and effectiveness of new technology and the result of 100's of experiments.
Zen-it does not matter- the horse and the rider are the same. That is Zen. Pure and simple. Quit complicating it. I know that I don't know-pure and simple."
.........
what is it that driven us to the future? |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150630
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Mar.30.2013
07:01PM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
what is it that driven us to the future? "
.........
what future? Time is an illusion and so is matter-constructs of the mind. Matter-HA it is nothing. You think its substance-hell no its not-not not! When you touch a so called solid substance you feel the repulsion of the energy. Ah but the brain creates reality so it thinks substantial-filling the void. The Buddha knew-VOID-no substance all delusion. The brain is a monkey-literally. Deluded.
I know that I don't know-that is wisdom. And I know that I can do nothing because there is no I-another delusion of the monkey brain and probably the most destructive one of all for the planet. Humans and their delusions-even though a few-very very few tried to wake us up. So I am everything and I am nothing equally true. Buddhism and Hinduism-ah and science now emerges from its folly of 500 years of determinism and finds its way back to the very beginning.
Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas), Shankara says the world is the Self. No difference they are both right. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150634
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.30.2013
07:17PM EDT
|
|
Just go to the toilet..lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150635
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from football
Mar.31.2013
05:35AM EDT
→Email football
|
|
Quote: "
what is it that driven us to the future?
"
.........
what future? Time is an illusion and so is matter-constructs of the mind. Matter-HA it is nothing. You think its substance-hell no its not-not not! When you touch a so called solid substance you feel the repulsion of the energy. Ah but the brain creates reality so it thinks substantial-filling the void. The Buddha knew-VOID-no substance all delusion. The brain is a monkey-literally. Deluded.
I know that I don't know-that is wisdom. And I know that I can do nothing because there is no I-another delusion of the monkey brain and probably the most destructive one of all for the planet. Humans and their delusions-even though a few-very very few tried to wake us up. So I am everything and I am nothing equally true. Buddhism and Hinduism-ah and science now emerges from its folly of 500 years of determinism and finds its way back to the very beginning.
Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas), Shankara says the world is the Self. No difference they are both right. "
......... "
.........
what future? Time is an illusion and so is matter-constructs of the mind. Matter-HA it is nothing. You think its substance-hell no its not-not not! When you touch a so called solid substance you feel the repulsion of the energy. Ah but the brain creates reality so it thinks substantial-filling the void. The Buddha knew-VOID-no substance all delusion. The brain is a monkey-literally. Deluded.
I know that I don't know-that is wisdom. And I know that I can do nothing because there is no I-another delusion of the monkey brain and probably the most destructive one of all for the planet. Humans and their delusions-even though a few-very very few tried to wake us up. So I am everything and I am nothing equally true. Buddhism and Hinduism-ah and science now emerges from its folly of 500 years of determinism and finds its way back to the very beginning.
Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas), Shankara says the world is the Self. No difference they are both right. "
.........
Sorry...I'm living in the Today Tomorrow world....my perspective....eh?
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150647
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Mar.31.2013
08:08AM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
Quote: "Quote: "
what is it that driven us to the future?
"
.........
what future? Time is an illusion and so is matter-constructs of the mind. Matter-HA it is nothing. You think its substance-hell no its not-not not! When you touch a so called solid substance you feel the repulsion of the energy. Ah but the brain creates reality so it thinks substantial-filling the void. The Buddha knew-VOID-no substance all delusion. The brain is a monkey-literally. Deluded.
I know that I don't know-that is wisdom. And I know that I can do nothing because there is no I-another delusion of the monkey brain and probably the most destructive one of all for the planet. Humans and their delusions-even though a few-very very few tried to wake us up. So I am everything and I am nothing equally true. Buddhism and Hinduism-ah and science now emerges from its folly of 500 years of determinism and finds its way back to the very beginning.
Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas), Shankara says the world is the Self. No difference they are both right. "
......... "
.........
what future? Time is an illusion and so is matter-constructs of the mind. Matter-HA it is nothing. You think its substance-hell no its not-not not! When you touch a so called solid substance you feel the repulsion of the energy. Ah but the brain creates reality so it thinks substantial-filling the void. The Buddha knew-VOID-no substance all delusion. The brain is a monkey-literally. Deluded.
I know that I don't know-that is wisdom. And I know that I can do nothing because there is no I-another delusion of the monkey brain and probably the most destructive one of all for the planet. Humans and their delusions-even though a few-very very few tried to wake us up. So I am everything and I am nothing equally true. Buddhism and Hinduism-ah and science now emerges from its folly of 500 years of determinism and finds its way back to the very beginning.
Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas), Shankara says the world is the Self. No difference they are both right. "
.........
Sorry...I'm living in the Today Tomorrow world....my perspective....eh?
Your perspective-yes. My perspective-its all delusion-maya.
"
......... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150650
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Mar.31.2013
08:10AM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
Your perspective-my perspective-everybody's perspective. Its all delusion-Maya. I know that I don't know. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150651
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Mar.31.2013
02:58PM EDT
|
|
Exactly because perspective is all thinking... |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150660
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Apr.01.2013
07:39AM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
Yes indeed, thought, survival-me and mine-I know that I do not know
We experience ourselves as separate bodies when both reason (metaphysics, physics) and mystical intuition show that we are inter-connected with all other matter in the universe as part of infinite eternal space (god). thought is Maya when it becomes personal-monkey brain-not as a functional activity-I carry water, I carry wood, I build a house, I balance the checkbook etc. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150681
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.01.2013
01:36PM EDT
→Email frozenaomi
|
|
Quote: "Saying that reality is not negotiable ... does that mean it is absolute??
Absolute in the way that several people observe the same phenomena would see and feel the same thing??
For me, reality has always been dependent upon where my mind stood.
And, since not everyone has my mind, they see things differently..
Entertaining the tantrum??
While observing myself, I have observed such things.
I call it thoughts feeding the emotional rant.
"
.........
Sorry for the zombie post but I started with this one and have been thinking about it. Is there a contradiction between absolute and relative reality? Cannot reality from within feel infinite? Feel like it has definite course and substance that we can choose to interact with or substitute for a preferred imagined reality which merely reflects with one degree of fidelity or another the observers perceived reality such that actions have equivalently more or less causal effects? Such that reality is really non-negotiable in any practical sense? And yet, from without cannot the same actuality feel like an approximation derived from the constructs of this new individuals experienced reality? Each whole within themselves and yet distinct?
To make a weak analogy: two ants crawling on the outside of a bubble wand are each swept out into their own separate bubbles. Each experiences their bubble as infinite...not matter how far they walk the can never come to the end of it. What ever they perceive will differ from their sister ant's perceptions because they percieve it from a different vantage. Neither ant is wrong but neither can either ant escape to experience the others truth and so they both see two whole, perfectly true, but distinct realities?
How more divergent must our vantages be having moved through time space and experience? What we see is true, if we choose to actually see, and inescapable and yet fundamentally unique to our own existences as well.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150687
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.01.2013
01:48PM EDT
→Email frozenaomi
|
|
**shrug** I don't know. I think if I have learned anything here it is that I am fundamentally unsuited for enlightenment. I am still caught up in the questions. Worse, I think, I am still interested in the questions. I have fairly recently started sitting and practicing zazen. For a few months now. And so far my journey has been to discover how close I am to the beginning. I am still stuck in trying perceiving reality as it is...as it really is. It defines all of my questions and experiences and is the subject of each meditation. And I haven't even figured out to start figuring out how to exist like that.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150688
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from epictetus
Apr.01.2013
08:00PM EDT
→Email epictetus
|
|
Quote: "**shrug** I don't know. I think if I have learned anything here it is that I am fundamentally unsuited for enlightenment. I am still caught up in the questions. Worse, I think, I am still interested in the questions. I have fairly recently started sitting and practicing zazen. For a few months now. And so far my journey has been to discover how close I am to the beginning. I am still stuck in trying perceiving reality as it is...as it really is. It defines all of my questions and experiences and is the subject of each meditation. And I haven't even figured out to start figuring out how to exist like that.
"
.........
You sound very suited for it. Zazen-just let it be-awareness without attachment. If then, even for a moment, there is the evaporation of that separate consciousness then you taste a new explanation of what awareness is. The awareness which was previously understood to be observing the world is now realized to be incorporated within it. A moment is all it takes-just a taste and you will be forever committed to the path of freedom. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150707
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Apr.05.2013
09:40PM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "**shrug** I don't know. I think if I have learned anything here it is that I am fundamentally unsuited for enlightenment. I am still caught up in the questions. Worse, I think, I am still interested in the questions. I have fairly recently started sitting and practicing zazen. For a few months now. And so far my journey has been to discover how close I am to the beginning. I am still stuck in trying perceiving reality as it is...as it really is. It defines all of my questions and experiences and is the subject of each meditation. And I haven't even figured out to start figuring out how to exist like that.
"
.........
Zazen is just sitting
Awareness is the practice
Posted previously by Riverstone
The awareness before and after thinking, this is the practice. If your mind is chaotic with thought,
your awareness of this .. is the practice. A great effort to make your mind stop thinking is unnatural.
The practice facilitates the moments when thinking is practically not there, but it is organic, natural.
When you focus on an object so strongly, that you are no longer thinking this is called concentration practice.
The whole idea of concentration practice is to remain aware, but aware without the rejection of the flowing of the present moment.
Should that moment contain, irritation, chaotic thoughts, or pleasant feelings, it is your awareness which is the practice.
Attachment to discomfort or pleasure will cause you to spiral in many directions,
but acknowledgement and honoring what arises and falls away as you release it, this is the practice.
Awareness does not reject anything, it sees the arising thought, reflects the thought,
And it stops reflecting it when the thought is gone. Awareness is the mirror, undiscriminating in what it reflects.
You know when awareness is gone, that is when you remember to watch your breathing again,
And then, you are aware again. Breathing is incidental but it is a good lifeline when your mirror becomes clouded.
Eventually there is a slip that happens where thinking suddenly ceases. You can feel it, it feels like everything has gone quiet. This can not be made to happen.
When there is no awareness, you are controlled by your notions and will do much to protect the truth of your beliefs.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150874
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from leoj99
Apr.06.2013
02:04AM EDT
|
|
It ia too complicated like your mind...lol |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150879
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from cinchona
Apr.06.2013
07:12AM EDT
|
|
Enlightenment is not the thought
but the thought that happens after a thought,
which leads to better awareness of thought itself.
something i read once, maybe out of the tibeten book of living and dieing. |
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150887
|
|
| |
|
|
Reply from Avisitor
Apr.06.2013
09:22AM EDT
→Email Avisitor
|
|
Quote: "It ia too complicated like your mind...lol
"
.........
It is simple. You are just making it more complicated with your mind.
|
|
|
|
→Quote & Reply
→Post Reply
150896
|
|
| |
| ←Back To Topic List |
|
↑Go to Top of Page |
ZEN GARDEN 1