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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: WORDS
vertical line Posted on Apr.01.2013 @ 07:22AM EDT by cinchona
words are dharma
thoughts are dharma

So should we abandon words and thoughts or sing and dance in dharma joy?
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.01.2013
01:25PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I enjoy singing and dancing.  And I enjoy talking and walking.  And I enjoy being quiet and sitting.  Why pick and choose? 
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:05PM EDT 
vertical line Words are not it...lol
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:07PM EDT 
vertical line But they can point it...lol
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:09PM EDT 
vertical line But if they are your words they cannot point to anything...
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:12PM EDT 
vertical line So don't waste  your time and effort and money..lol
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.01.2013
04:15PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line What does money have to do with it? And what else are we to spend our time and effort on if not each other?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 150699
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:17PM EDT 
vertical line Well you can ask that question to yourself.. your answer is the best answer..lol
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:18PM EDT 
vertical line I mean the best for you. But necessarily best for me.
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.01.2013
04:23PM EDT 
vertical line Ok I will answer. If you are always thinking and talking you need energy. Then you need more food. Then you buy food. Is that not spending money...lol

Then you need a Zen Forum to talk... it cause money too..although not your money... I guess...lol
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.01.2013
06:36PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Well, I have never had a glimpse of kensho or of anything profound.  I do not have any real Answers and so I think there is little value in my own answer for myself or anyone else.

Still, you do raise some very good points and have some very good answers which is why I ask questions.  I merely wish to know more.  I particularly liked that one about money.  I do not know who owns this domain or who pays for the bandwidth.  And that is shameful.  I have, apparently, been here 1,155 times according to firefox's memory on only one computer.  But be it cheap or expensive I certainly aught to have given my thanks before now.  I have not been coming here long, and I do not stay consistently, yet this site means a great deal to me and I would be very sad if it were to go away.  So thank you, up-keepers, sincerely, and my apologies for not acknowledging you before now. 

You had another very good point:  that expending energy in talking and thinking is divorced from Zen.  That is, "If you are always thinking and talking you need energy. Then you need more food.".  Which is very true.  And taken to it's logical conclusion living requires food.  And the only way to escape the need for food is not to live.

There is a Jain (Jainism a sister idea to Buddhism) idea this reminds me of called "Sallekhana" or "Santhara" that I have looked into a few times.  It takes the idea that reality, or enlightenment, is not to be found in anything that possesses any cost.  This includes food which at the very least costs the death of something else.  Consequently, the practitioner commits ritual suicide via self-starvation.  By custom the practitioner does not speak and upon slipping into a coma engages in varying degrees of no-thought before death claims them.  

Also there is your perennial advice not to think, and certainly you know that when the body is deprived of thought (by breaking the spinal cord too close to the medulla sheering off all neural communication for example) the body quickly dies.  You advocate not thinking and you advocate not doing anything which requires needing more food.  Doesn't this imply that both of your answers are euphemistic pathways toward suicide?  Does this not necessarily mean that you assert that death is greater than life?  That only be engaging in practices by which life is impossible enlightenment can be found?

If so you are in very good company.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood you.  I have only your words to go by and you discredit those so.  Still, I know of no other way to communicate with you or to make use of this fine forum for which other people pay.  And wouldn't it be the height of rudeness to let their expense go to waste?
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.02.2013
04:18AM EDT 
vertical line You mean all the years spent here before I came aren't wasted?... lol..

Can tell me what you have accomplished?
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.02.2013
08:01AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I am not sure precisely what your questions refer to.  Forgive me I have small skill with comprehending such brief words so, please, understand I am only guessing that my responses are germane to your questions. 

For the former, I believe you are referring to the expenses of the forum at large.  As such of course I can furnish to answer, the only ones who can decide if the coin required to operate this space was wasted are the ones who actually supply the coin.  Who else can say if they feel their costs are justified now, in the past, or in the future?

As for the latter question I set out only to ask a question.  I cannot say if I have "accomplished" this because I do not know if the question was understood.  Can a question unanswered be accomplished?  Is that even what questions are?  Discreet entitees that can be "accomplished"?  Forgive me, I didn't even know there was anything to be accomplished.  That's why I come to you, you have such great wisdom and so many answers.  I can only imagine how much then you must have accomplished. 
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.02.2013
08:05AM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line *As such of course I can furnish no answer, the only ones who can decide if the coin required to operate this space was wasted are the ones who actually supply the coin.


Sorry.  My grasp on reality is still weak and sometimes I read what I thought I wrote instead of what I actually typed. 
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Reply from cinchona
Apr.02.2013
08:20AM EDT 
vertical line There once was a monk who heard that on another continent their was a man who had mastered the art of levitation, fascinated with the idea he spent 20 years practicing hoping one day to levitate across the river. when buddha heard of this he said "why bother when for the price of a small coin the ferry men will take you".
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Reply from justin
Apr.02.2013
10:14AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Ok I will answer. If you are always thinking and talking you need energy. Then you need more food. Then you buy food. Is that not spending money...lol

Then you need a Zen Forum to talk... it cause money too..although not your money... I guess...lol
"
.........
somehow i think that is your concern you are vocalising
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Reply from leoj99
Apr.02.2013
12:38PM EDT 
vertical line Dudes.. are you serious... I am only kidding.. because the question is funny...lol
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.02.2013
02:32PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line I'm sorry. I did totally miss that you were being funny. I did like what Cinchona said but I fear I totally missed the joke. So if you were kidding I should take your meaning to be that words are the way to understand Buddhism?
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Reply from nibble
Apr.02.2013
05:06PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "There once was a monk who heard that on another continent their was a man who had mastered the art of levitation, fascinated with the idea he spent 20 years practicing hoping one day to levitate across the river. when buddha heard of this he said "why bother when for the price of a small coin the ferry men will take you"."
.........
Yeah, right.. (man, it would be soo frigging awesome to be able to levitate:))
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Reply from frozenaomi
Apr.02.2013
07:49PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Maybe.  I am an aweful big fan of rollercoasters and riding them is a lot less work.  But parks are expensive.  And who am I kidding levitating would be a blast.  
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Reply from cinchona
Apr.03.2013
01:07AM EDT 
vertical line the mind is levitating.
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Reply from boymonk
Apr.03.2013
05:04PM EDT 
vertical line We sing with words...
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Reply from cinchona
Apr.03.2013
09:22PM EDT 
vertical line and dance with thoughts...
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Reply from Avisitor
Apr.04.2013
07:09AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "What does money have to do with it? And what else are we to spend our time and effort on if not each other?

Well, I have never had a glimpse of kensho or of anything profound.  I do not have any real Answers and so I think there is little value in my own answer for myself or anyone else.
"
.........

Our time and efforts on each other ...  yes, that sounds right
Compassion and love command this

Whether you have or have not experienced anything profound,
You should remember that you are profound and deep.
What you think does matter. Your answers are worth the price of admission ... hahaha
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