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  Tetsugen, a devotee of Zen in Japan, decided to publish the sutras, which at that time were available only in Chinese. The books were to be printed with wood blocks in an edition of seven thousand copies, a tremendous undertaking.... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: BODYMIND
vertical line Posted on Apr.15.2013 @ 09:05AM EDT by cinchona
Where does body end and mind begin?

Where does mind begin and body end?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.15.2013
10:14AM EDT 
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Perhaps they are never connected ........................

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from cinchona
Apr.15.2013
10:49AM EDT 
vertical line perhaps they are never not connected.

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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.15.2013
10:51AM EDT 
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Quote: "perhaps they are never not connected.

"
.........

Perhaps you could explain your reason for your understanding as I wish to discover more and perhaps it would be factor that change my current understanding ......

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Reply from Avisitor
Apr.15.2013
10:11PM EDT 
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vertical line This body and mind are aggregates
And as such, they are not permanent.

Dust in the wind .... hahahaha
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Reply from Riverstone
Apr.16.2013
03:20AM EDT 
vertical line The body and mind are neither disconnected nor connected. Yet, in the practice, they synchronize. In sitting meditation the body is erect, the natural curves of the spine are engaged, and then one relaxes into the posture, not slump, just relaxed. It is neither taut, nor loose. The mind follows the posture, being alert but relaxed as well.
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Reply from cinchona
Apr.16.2013
06:59AM EDT 
vertical line Everything has body and everything has mind, it must, even a tree or bacteria, cells and micro organisms all must possess something that enables them to operate in their own environment, something which obtains the cause and effect reactions, similiarly to people. Though, you might say, people have an extra power of being able to obtain awareness of these kinds of processes. But awareness is awareness and is only the tool of evolution to expierience itself on different levels, so it could be fair to say that even a micro organism obbtains the same awareness but the awareness operates according to the susceptibility of the organism. NEVER KNOWING WHATS BEYOND THE BLUE MOUNTAIN. one cannot look beyond their own constitution in the web of life, but can only work with its susceptibility to enhance its life by the elements available to its nature.


the body - mind connection, in which there is no real connection that can be distguished, when all is body and all is mind.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.16.2013
07:30AM EDT 
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Dear Cinchona , you said Quote: "Everything has body and everything has mind, it must, even a tree or bacteria, cells and micro organisms all must possess something that enables them to operate in their own environment, something which obtains the cause and effect reactions, similiarly to people." Un-quote

Yes ,is true if you solely base on your knowledge what is so call body and mind . You know and accepted the " body" and the mind from the knowledge you learned and accepted ...this knowledge had became basis of all your understanding ...yourself had became part of the knowledge .................that is common human culture where knowledge is the basis of all .

Buddhism in my current understanding is beyond knowledge therefore you have to free yourself from your attachment on knowledge to discover new realization ............to me currently , ME is nothingness same as all living or non-living , MYSELF which the energy that causes my existance which is all my emotions / desire / love / compassion .........and nothing is connected to myself even " my body" ...' my body" is never related / connected to ME or MYSELF but is a being that exist due to the nature of its polluted energy .......and this body is not me or myself . The connection that seems to be as human is due to my knowledge / my desire / my emotions and this had caused joy and suffering to myself .....Buddhism is a process that naturally separate ME from myself , free me from existance ............. 

 You said , I quote "Though, you might say, people have an extra power of being able to obtain awareness of these kinds of processes. But awareness is awareness and is only the tool of evolution to expierience itself on different levels, so it could be fair to say that even a micro organism obbtains the same awareness but the awareness operates according to the susceptibility of the organism. NEVER KNOWING WHATS BEYOND THE BLUE MOUNTAIN. one cannot look beyond their own constitution in the web of life, but can only work with its susceptibility to enhance its life by the elements available to its nature. " un-quote

To me , awareness is a reflection of MYSELF and as I progress into greater realization on myself and me.....all awareness / mind will be reduced as myself decreases ....

Thks

CSEe




the body - mind connection, in which there is no real connection that can be distguished, when all is body and all is mind."
.........




the body - mind connection, in which there is no real connection that can be distguished, when all is body and all is mind."
.........

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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.16.2013
09:18AM EDT 
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Dear Cinchona , you said I quote "the body - mind connection, in which there is no real connection that can be distguished, when all is body and all is mind."Un-quote

To me , yes that is Buddhism when I accepted all is SAME and EQUAL ..........when I accepted ' ME" and MYSELF ..........

But thats is perhaps trillions of light years away from my current polluted self .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from cinchona
Apr.16.2013
09:22AM EDT 
vertical line Past and future both speculation, they are made up, they differ from person to person. All we can talk about zen and buddhism is speculation, all talk on the future of existence is speculation,

emptiness is gone before you can think it,
In Buddhism they talk of being in the moment of "now" not endlessly wandering the universe looking for an end, that's the serpent eating its own tail.

Like Buddha said "what you think you become". If you think of nothingness then nothingness becomes your search, If you think of Love then love becomes your search. He was talking about the infinite void, the endless journey that leads us back to the here and now. that leads us to our own potential in this moment.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.16.2013
10:52AM EDT 
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Dear Cinchona , you said I Quote: "Past and future both speculation, they are made up, they differ from person to person. All we can talk about zen and buddhism is speculation, all talk on the future of existence is speculation,emptiness is gone before you can think it, 
" un-quote

To me , in concept of Buddhism there is NO past or FUTURE as you are always nothingness and yourself is the one that cause your existance...and the believe of future or past is all from knowledge ............emptiness is a condition freedom of "self" and if I am in such condition ...there will be no thinking as there is NO self .

You said , I quote " In Buddhism they talk of being in the moment of "now" not endlessly wandering the universe looking for an end, that's the serpent eating its own tail.

Like Buddha said "what you think you become". If you think of nothingness then nothingness becomes your search, If you think of Love then love becomes your search. He was talking about the infinite void, the endless journey that leads us back to the here and now. that leads us to our own potential in this moment." un-quote

The way I look at it might be different . Human if use knowledge as basis of their journey , they will become human of which they wish to be ...and with the attachment of their " self" they will continue to exist in many circle of birth / death until they naturally decreased in all emotions towards emptiness .........so in my current understanding of Buddhism is awake to aware , aware to realize , realize to accept , accept to further aware of all our emotions / desire / compassion / love / greed / will / fear etc and as we progress into greater realization ....our " self" will be naturally decreased and progressing into emptiness ........Buddhism is a PROCESS naturally decreasing all emotions NOT a concept to increase it ........

Thks CSEe
"
.........

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Reply from cinchona
Apr.16.2013
08:41PM EDT 
vertical line what i have learnt is that buddhism is a look at "now" not "future", all ideas of emptiness are only ones speculation, just an idea.

like they say, "now is all the time you have" past is gone future yet to happen, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Apr.16.2013
09:37PM EDT 
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Quote: "what i have learnt is that buddhism is a look at "now" not "future", all ideas of emptiness are only ones speculation, just an idea.

like they say, "now is all the time you have" past is gone future yet to happen, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
"
.........

I just hope to debate with you for my learning lesson . To me , Buddhism is realizing now and all ideas on emptiness is just a knowledge - tiny part of the whole process of Buddhism . Now is a awakening for self realization and is not something we "have" rather something we "in" , time is a condition we in- NOW not a time we have  as death or birth is not related to us ................past is now , future in the making is now ............now is yourself ..............if you created desire / aim / expectation and move in that direction to acheive it , yes in knowledge you will succeed ........still whatever you do is Buddhism .......... but if you put your mind into it you are creating more emotion , more self and this will lead to more joy and suffering ............

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from cinchona
Apr.17.2013
12:22AM EDT 
vertical line There will never be a moment that is not now.
A billion light years ago there was the moment of now, in another billion light years there will still be the moment of now regardless what is living or dead.

now is constantly reinvented.
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