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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: COMPLETE ENLIGHTENMENT
vertical line Posted on May.02.2013 @ 06:23AM EDT by cinchona
Everyone experiences moments of enlightenment, often described as 'bardo or 'kensho', this is the stillness in which we develop understanding. But when this awareness fills our being and is always present within us, we obtain complete enlightenment. Also called 'perfect supreme enlightenment' or 'ultimate realisation', to describe this very important difference.

If you think you are enlightened or think you know enlightenment then you fail to see the point of enlightenment, because once we are stripped of the idea of self we become enlightened by the 'ten thousand things' and they are everchanging.
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Reply from football
May.02.2013
06:29AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Honor is in the flow.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151557
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Reply from cinchona
May.02.2013
06:45AM EDT 
vertical line I have heard that perfect supreme enlightenment can only be obtained by all people at the same time. The buddhas taught these methods and are waitng for us to come upon their realisation so that one day all things can live in peace and be free from suffering.
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Reply from football
May.02.2013
07:05AM EDT 
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vertical line sleepy dream
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151560
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Reply from Avisitor
May.02.2013
09:50AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Enlightenment doesn't destroy the ego.
The ego is what is used to deal with this world.
When you find Nirvana, you don't disappear into another world and forever lose your ego.
That doesn't happen.
But, believe what you want.
All I ask is that you experience this for yourself.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151565
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Reply from Avisitor
May.02.2013
09:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Being in a different state all or most of the time doesn't mean supreme enlightenment.
Supreme enlightenment is like what the Buddha experienced.
Satori is what most others have experienced.
There is no compllete enlightenment ... cause complete has the meaning that there is no more and it is done with.
See for yourself.
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Reply from esoteric
May.02.2013
03:00PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Being in a different state all or most of the time doesn't mean supreme enlightenment.
Supreme enlightenment is like what the Buddha experienced.
Satori is what most others have experienced.
There is no compllete enlightenment ... cause complete has the meaning that there is no more and it is done with.
See for yourself.
"
.........

I have a different understanding of complete than that. No more and infinitely more. Done with in its not-doneness.
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Reply from esoteric
May.02.2013
03:06PM EDT 
vertical line After Siddhartha achieved supreme complete enlightenment, he lived for another 50 years or so, living and talking to people until his death.

Winning the game doesn't end the game. Just, the game and winning it are one and the same.
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Reply from esoteric
May.02.2013
03:10PM EDT 
vertical line You guys are all beautiful, by the way. You must be, or I wouldn't keep coming back to say hi. :-D  LOL
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Reply from football
May.02.2013
06:30PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Complete enlightenment is uncompleted.
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:02AM EDT 
vertical line How can you get enlightened if you still have the ego. The ego is the false self, the illusion which was mistaken as the true self. The ego is that which you think you really are but actually is just an illusion. So how can the ego be part of your true self. The ego is doing all the hanky panky that which cause all suffering...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:03AM EDT 
vertical line The ego is the self that rely on words and go on thinking and thing...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151605
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:04AM EDT 
vertical line There is no such thing as complete enlightenment. You just be satisfied with just a little..lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:06AM EDT 
vertical line If your aim or goal is too high you are just thinking.. and thinking you have complete or ultimate enlightenment.

If you can figure out a koan.. or Mu.. you have kensho...lol.. if not... forget about it..
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:08AM EDT 
vertical line Zen Mastesr will test you by giving a koan... usually Mu...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
12:09AM EDT 
vertical line If you haven't an audience with a living Zen Master don't ever assume you got enlightenment...lol
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Reply from esoteric
May.03.2013
05:25AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "There is no such thing as complete enlightenment. You just be satisfied with just a little..lol "
.........

You think there's no such thing because you're not satisfied.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151616
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Reply from Avisitor
May.03.2013
10:53AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "How can you get enlightened if you still have the ego. The ego is the false self, the illusion which was mistaken as the true self. The ego is that which you think you really are but actually is just an illusion. So how can the ego be part of your true self. The ego is doing all the hanky panky that which cause all suffering...lol "
.........

You can still see the truth even when you are surrounded by illusions.
Suffering is caused by clinging to attachments.
Having a mind set that you should have no feelings of pain is attachment
Clinging to this notion causes suffering when there is pain.
You are constantly fighting your condition with your attachment and clinging.
That is suffering.
Even with enlightenment, one can have a tooth ache. Pain.
But, not fighting the feeling and discomfort, this becomes part of life.
There is pain. But, there is no suffering as before.
The difference is not an easy one to see.
But, it is the start of understanding.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151626
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Reply from Avisitor
May.03.2013
11:01AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "If you haven't an audience with a living Zen Master don't ever assume you got enlightenment...lol "
.........

No, no enlightenment here.
My teacher passed ... a long time ago.

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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
03:51PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "How can you get enlightened if you still have the ego. The ego is the false self, the illusion which was mistaken as the true self. The ego is that which you think you really are but actually is just an illusion. So how can the ego be part of your true self. The ego is doing all the hanky panky that which cause all suffering...lol "
.........

You can still see the truth even when you are surrounded by illusions.
Suffering is caused by clinging to attachments.
Having a mind set that you should have no feelings of pain is attachment
Clinging to this notion causes suffering when there is pain.
You are constantly fighting your condition with your attachment and clinging.
That is suffering.
Even with enlightenment, one can have a tooth ache. Pain.
But, not fighting the feeling and discomfort, this becomes part of life.
There is pain. But, there is no suffering as before.
The difference is not an easy one to see.
But, it is the start of understanding.
"
.........
Enlightenment is recognizing your illusions so they drop and no longer surround or attach to you....
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Reply from leoj99
May.03.2013
03:53PM EDT 
vertical line Enlightenment has nothing to do with toothache or headache..lol
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Reply from cinchona
May.03.2013
09:25PM EDT 
vertical line The great light shines through all,
lost in its vibration are we.


"Thoughts still - Mind wonders"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151646
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Reply from Avisitor
May.03.2013
09:43PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Enlightenment is recognizing your illusions so they drop and no longer surround or attach to you....

Enlightenment has nothing to do with toothache or headache..lol
"
.........

You do so much to keep your notion of what is or should be that you don't want to understand.
My post was about suffering. What is attachment?

Enlightenment is freeing yourself from your attachments.
Attachments are the illusions which you have set up.
The filters that you use to see the world.
It is not an easy thing to do when you have no other vantage point to view such things.
Growing up, using only one way to understand the world.

If you do know what enlightenment is then please tell us what role suffering has to do with it.
What is attachments? What is clinging?
And how to free oneself from such ties.
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:18AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "How can you get enlightened if you still have the ego. The ego is the false self, the illusion which was mistaken as the true self. The ego is that which you think you really are but actually is just an illusion. So how can the ego be part of your true self. The ego is doing all the hanky panky that which cause all suffering...lol "
.........

You are Enlightened! ..

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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:19AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "There is no such thing as complete enlightenment. You just be satisfied with just a little..lol "
.........

You think there's no such thing because you're not satisfied.
"
.........

esoteric: He has enlightenment!
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "... clinging ..."
.........

Don't please accuse. people of clinging.: I'm asaying Buddha was wrong. "It is under delusion." (cling is not some thing we do.)

Under delusion. Not cling.
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "no enlightenment here."
.........

Excellent!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151678
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Enlightenment is recognizing your illusions so they drop and no longer surround or attach to you....
"
.........

Non-delusion. "[.] is [.]" was delusion (there isn't one).
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:26AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The great light [...] all,

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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:29AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "You do so much [.
..] attachment[?]
"
.........

Don't accuse people of attachment.

... there is none.
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Reply from clangor
May.04.2013
01:29AM EDT 
vertical line ... there is nothing but delusion.  .
 .
 
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
02:28AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Enlightenment is recognizing your illusions so they drop and no longer surround or attach to you....

Enlightenment has nothing to do with toothache or headache..lol
"
.........

You do so much to keep your notion of what is or should be that you don't want to understand.
My post was about suffering. What is attachment?

Enlightenment is freeing yourself from your attachments.
Attachments are the illusions which you have set up.
The filters that you use to see the world.
It is not an easy thing to do when you have no other vantage point to view such things.
Growing up, using only one way to understand the world.

If you do know what enlightenment is then please tell us what role suffering has to do with it.
What is attachments? What is clinging?
And how to free oneself from such ties.
"
.........

Suffering without real suffering you suffer because your suffering are just imagined. Unlike toothache or headache you may suffer or endure the pain but that is only normal because the pain is real not imagined...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
03:26AM EDT 
vertical line What is abnormal is suffering without real suffering which is the most serious suffering in this world. That which every Sage vow to eliminate...lol
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Reply from esoteric
May.04.2013
04:08AM EDT 
vertical line I'm eating raisin pecan bread and pepper jack cheese, with cafe au lait. Perhaps it's not the most usual combination, but it's certainly satisfying and delicious.
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
04:12AM EDT 
vertical line Be careful you might have a toothache..lol

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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
04:15AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "How can you get enlightened if you still have the ego. The ego is the false self, the illusion which was mistaken as the true self. The ego is that which you think you really are but actually is just an illusion. So how can the ego be part of your true self. The ego is doing all the hanky panky that which cause all suffering...lol "
.........

You can still see the truth even when you are surrounded by illusions.
Suffering is caused by clinging to attachments.
Having a mind set that you should have no feelings of pain is attachment
Clinging to this notion causes suffering when there is pain.
You are constantly fighting your condition with your attachment and clinging.
That is suffering.
Even with enlightenment, one can have a tooth ache. Pain.
But, not fighting the feeling and discomfort, this becomes part of life.
There is pain. But, there is no suffering as before.
The difference is not an easy one to see.
But, it is the start of understanding.
"
.........

I think you have great capacity of mixing up things like coleslaw....lol
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Reply from cinchona
May.04.2013
08:37AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What is abnormal is suffering without real suffering which is the most serious suffering in this world. That which every Sage vow to eliminate...lol

"
.........

This is interesting,
two kinds of suffering,
one self created through attachment, desires, etc.... the other the suffering of illness and death.
Makes me wander though if we get rid of the first cause (self created) by focusing our life on kindess, caring, giving, sharing, and things like that, wouldn't humanity naturally head down the path to end the 'real suffering' through physical ways of medicine, and meditation etc....?
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Reply from Avisitor
May.04.2013
09:01AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Suffering without real suffering you suffer because your suffering are just imagined. Unlike toothache or headache you may suffer or endure the pain but that is only normal because the pain is real not imagined...lol
"
.........

To endure pain is not suffering.
That is a part of life.
To be attached to the ideas of no pain and only pleasure is to cling
Clinging provides the avenue for suffering.

Suffering, real or imagined, is suffering. ... when there is attachment.
Read the Four Noble truths.
Or do you believe that your ideas and beliefs are better than Buddha's ideas???
Really???
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
03:46PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Suffering without real suffering you suffer because your suffering are just imagined. Unlike toothache or headache you may suffer or endure the pain but that is only normal because the pain is real not imagined...lol
"
.........

To endure pain is not suffering.
That is a part of life.
To be attached to the ideas of no pain and only pleasure is to cling
Clinging provides the avenue for suffering.

Suffering, real or imagined, is suffering. ... when there is attachment.
Read the Four Noble truths.
Or do you believe that your ideas and beliefs are better than Buddha's ideas???
Really???
"
.........

How can you be attached if you recognise them as unreal.
Real things you should deal with them.
If pain is the problem just take a pain killer...
Exactly ideas of anything, even the idea of God is unreal...lol
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Reply from Avisitor
May.04.2013
05:38PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "How can you be attached if you recognise them as unreal.
Real things you should deal with them.
If pain is the problem just take a pain killer...
Exactly ideas of anything, even the idea of God is unreal...lol
"
.........

Do you recognize having no pain??
If you are in pain then do you wish to have no pain??
Being attached to no pain ... to comfort ... that makes it real.
In that is the cause of suffering.

Yes, God does not apply here. It does not relate to Buddhism.
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
05:43PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "How can you be attached if you recognise them as unreal.
Real things you should deal with them.
If pain is the problem just take a pain killer...
Exactly ideas of anything, even the idea of God is unreal...lol
"
.........

Do you recognize having no pain??
If you are in pain then do you wish to have no pain??
Being attached to no pain ... to comfort ... that makes it real.
In that is the cause of suffering.

Yes, God does not apply here. It does not relate to Buddhism.
"
.........

As I said how could you be attached to no pain when you recognize it as unreal...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
05:46PM EDT 
vertical line Maybe I explain it a little bit...lol.

When you are in pain... no pain is unreal... when you have no pain...pain is unreal...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
06:16PM EDT 
vertical line And when you are in pain ... how would you wish to have no pain...by thinking ...just wishing... And when you have no pain.. how could you wish to have pain.. by thinking...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
06:17PM EDT 
vertical line That is why thinking is always unreal...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
06:20PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "How can you be attached if you recognise them as unreal.
Real things you should deal with them.
If pain is the problem just take a pain killer...
Exactly ideas of anything, even the idea of God is unreal...lol
"
.........

Do you recognize having no pain??
If you are in pain then do you wish to have no pain??
Being attached to no pain ... to comfort ... that makes it real.
In that is the cause of suffering.

Yes, God does not apply here. It does not relate to Buddhism.
"
.........

There is... God as an idea .. is not Buddhism... but God that is not an idea is Zen Buddhism...
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Reply from Avisitor
May.04.2013
06:36PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "As I said how could you be attached to no pain when you recognize it as unreal...lol

.........

But, you haven't recognized that ... otherwise you would be enlightened ... hahaha


.........

There is... God as an idea .. is not Buddhism... but God that is not an idea is Zen Buddhism...
"
.........

I didn't say God is not an idea. There are Gods in Buddhism. But, God as in other religions does not apply here. The key word is "apply".
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
06:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "As I said how could you be attached to no pain when you recognize it as unreal...lol

.........

But, you haven't recognized that ... otherwise you would be enlightened ... hahaha


.........

There is... God as an idea .. is not Buddhism... but God that is not an idea is Zen Buddhism...
"
.........

I didn't say God is not an idea. There are Gods in Buddhism. But, God as in other religions does not apply here. The key word is "apply".
"
.........

But of course Zen Buddhism is not a religion .. so God as in other religions does not apply... i know that...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
07:02PM EDT 
vertical line In religions you have to believe in God. Why? Because God is only an idea. If it is not idea ... if it is real God.. you don't have any need to believe it...lol ... like you don't need to believe its a lemon.. because you know it is a real lemon.. you can even taste it if you want...lol
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Reply from leoj99
May.04.2013
07:04PM EDT 
vertical line That is why in Zen Buddhism you don't need to believe in anything... But you have to believe in yourself you can do it... otherwise you don't make it...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151750
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