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  Things have never declared themselves empty, nor have they declared
themselves form; and they have not declared themselves right, wrong,
defiled or pure. Nor is there a mind that binds and fetters people.
It is just because... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: TONIGHTS MOVIE
vertical line Posted on May.05.2013 @ 05:30AM EDT by cinchona
make for an interesting topic.
physics meets buddhism.

http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_movie
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
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Reply from esoteric
May.05.2013
05:59AM EDT 
vertical line Where does ignorance come from?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151853
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Reply from cinchona
May.05.2013
06:01AM EDT 
vertical line same place as everything else i suppose, the void.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151855
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Reply from Avisitor
May.05.2013
09:25AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Where does ignorance come from? "
.........

It comes from seeing everything with a filter.
When one talks about an object, it is this or it is that
And thus, it is created in the mind.
Self is also created in the mind.
When one finds the truth, one experiences the truth and the filters are let go.
True understanding or wisdom arises from this.
The person is no longer ignorant of his true nature
Now the person can go about releasing cravings or desires.

The void??? ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151871
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Reply from leoj99
May.05.2013
06:03PM EDT 
vertical line I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol...
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151879
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Reply from Avisitor
May.05.2013
09:33PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol... "
.........

No, thinking is not the cause
But, it is what sustains the present condition
Ignorance comes from only having the one way of looking at this world.
When one realizes the truth, one can truy see ones true self
This is the lost of ignorance and the beginning of wisdom and understanding.

But, blame whatever you like ... it is what makes the world go around .. hahahaha
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Reply from esoteric
May.05.2013
10:09PM EDT 
vertical line The loss of ignorance is the BEGINNING of wisdom and understanding.

Nicely stated. Thank you. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151882
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Reply from leoj99
May.06.2013
12:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol... "
.........

No, thinking is not the cause
But, it is what sustains the present condition
Ignorance comes from only having the one way of looking at this world.
When one realizes the truth, one can truy see ones true self
This is the lost of ignorance and the beginning of wisdom and understanding.

But, blame whatever you like ... it is what makes the world go around .. hahahaha
"
.........

Yeah the only way most people are looking at the world is thinking...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151890
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Reply from cinchona
May.06.2013
11:12PM EDT 
vertical line Seems we missed the topic.
Did anyone watch the movie.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151946
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
06:42AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Seems we missed the topic.
Did anyone watch the movie.
"
.........

I watched it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151969
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
07:07AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol... "
.........

No, thinking is not the cause
But, it is what sustains the present condition
Ignorance comes from only having the one way of looking at this world.
When one realizes the truth, one can truy see ones true self
This is the lost of ignorance and the beginning of wisdom and understanding.

But, blame whatever you like ... it is what makes the world go around .. hahahaha
"
.........

Yeah the only way most people are looking at the world is thinking...lol
"
.........

What is your way of looking at the world, leoj99?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151974
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Reply from justin
May.07.2013
11:09AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line i would like to know how anyone could possibly know most of the people, that is a lot of people.

either a very very busy man or

sweeping generalisation
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151975
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Reply from cinchona
May.07.2013
11:29AM EDT 
vertical line You may have read this, i found it on the main page.

Posted on Sep.06.2009 @ 09:29AM EDT by chontri

In the teachings it says that:
"All compounded things are like dreams,
illusions, bubbles, and shadows;
they are like dew and like lightning,
and should be seen in this way."

What eye do you see with?
When you have fully attained this eye,you will see
the mountains, rivers, and earth do not ruin or adulterate yourself,
nor do yourself ruin or adulterate the mountauns, rivers, and earth.
There is no more sacred doctrines therein to make for understading or obstruction.
And there is no ordinary convention to make for understanding or obstruction.
But can you believe it?
If you can believe it, then consciouness conditioned by ignorance
turns into endless meditation.
If you can't belive it, endless meditation turns into consciousness
conditioned by ignorance.

Ch'an master Tsu-hsin
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Reply from Avisitor
May.07.2013
11:52AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "i would like to know how anyone could possibly know most of the people, that is a lot of people.

either a very very busy man or

sweeping generalisation
"
.........

"Most People" is a sweeping gneralization
Much like "Most People" have two eyes and two legs.
Or "Most People" have a heart ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151977
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Reply from Avisitor
May.07.2013
11:53AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "... But can you believe it?
If you can believe it, then consciouness conditioned by ignorance
turns into endless meditation.
If you can't belive it, endless meditation turns into consciousness
conditioned by ignorance.

Ch'an master Tsu-hsin
"
.........

Screwed if you do and screwed if you don't .... hahaha
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
06:04PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "... But can you believe it?
If you can believe it, then consciouness conditioned by ignorance
turns into endless meditation.
If you can't belive it, endless meditation turns into consciousness
conditioned by ignorance.

Ch'an master Tsu-hsin
"
.........

Screwed if you do and screwed if you don't .... hahaha
"
.........

You think endless meditation is as bad as consciousness conditioned by ignorance?

Strange.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151980
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Reply from justin
May.07.2013
08:34PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "i would like to know how anyone could possibly know most of the people, that is a lot of people.

either a very very busy man or

sweeping generalisation
"
.........

"Most People" is a sweeping gneralization
Much like "Most People" have two eyes and two legs.
Or "Most People" have a heart ... hahaha
"
.........

i  think these are slightly different generalisations, that i could apply to 'most' species on the planet. or another one 'most species on this planet are carbon based life forms because the live in a carbon based environment' these are very different characteristics then emotional. intelligence states. Because there are species which do not have those things. but all humans by definition of humanness do have a heart and eyes and legs, except blind, legless ones. but all carry the genes for these things. if they do not then we call them something else bacteria, etc.
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Reply from cinchona
May.07.2013
08:43PM EDT 
vertical line i read it like this,

either way you have conciousness
are you going to condition it with ignorance or endless meditation.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151983
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Reply from Avisitor
May.07.2013
08:48PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Screwed if you do and screwed if you don't .... hahaha
"
.........

You think endless meditation is as bad as consciousness conditioned by ignorance?

Strange.
"
.........

Endess meditation or consciousness conditioned by ignorance ...
Both lead to endless cycles of suffering.
The story is to spur on the student to a greater place or effort
To end the ignorance or meditation

It isn't a matter of one being better than the other.
Don't settle ...
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Reply from cinchona
May.07.2013
08:52PM EDT 
vertical line we are constantly living in an Event Horizon.
what does that mean?
it means everything is always at that turning point
in which there is no return
no borders to cross
continuus flow from one thing to the next

so, where could ignorance come from?
Someone may show you ignorance
but they cannot give you ignorance
Ignorance becomes the result of one not observing
it is simply put, what you are ignoring,

everything is two,
everything observed is one
only when everything is understood as one
will everything observed, happily be two
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
09:10PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Screwed if you do and screwed if you don't .... hahaha
"
.........

You think endless meditation is as bad as consciousness conditioned by ignorance?

Strange.
"
.........

Endess meditation or consciousness conditioned by ignorance ...
Both lead to endless cycles of suffering.
The story is to spur on the student to a greater place or effort
To end the ignorance or meditation

It isn't a matter of one being better than the other.
Don't settle ...
"
.........

I see your point. I'm with you on this one. I'll take neither.
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
09:11PM EDT 
vertical line Disbelief is just another belief. I'll eat my bread and drink my milk.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151988
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Reply from justin
May.07.2013
09:24PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


i denotes a frame of mind which is not only restricted to allocated formal sitting time, and then runs wild outside of that, this frame of mind is constantly sitting.
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Reply from esoteric
May.07.2013
09:25PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


i denotes a frame of mind which is not only restricted to allocated formal sitting time, and then runs wild outside of that, this frame of mind is constantly sitting.
"
.........

Is it?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151994
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Reply from leoj99
May.08.2013
12:40AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol... "
.........

No, thinking is not the cause
But, it is what sustains the present condition
Ignorance comes from only having the one way of looking at this world.
When one realizes the truth, one can truy see ones true self
This is the lost of ignorance and the beginning of wisdom and understanding.

But, blame whatever you like ... it is what makes the world go around .. hahahaha
"
.........

Yeah the only way most people are looking at the world is thinking...lol
"
.........

What is your way of looking at the world, leoj99?
"
.........
Well seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling... thats it..  what else...

If you are always thinking you are always either in the past or the future... lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 151997
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Reply from leoj99
May.08.2013
12:45AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Screwed if you do and screwed if you don't .... hahaha
"
.........

You think endless meditation is as bad as consciousness conditioned by ignorance?

Strange.
"
.........

Endess meditation or consciousness conditioned by ignorance ...
Both lead to endless cycles of suffering.
The story is to spur on the student to a greater place or effort
To end the ignorance or meditation

It isn't a matter of one being better than the other.
Don't settle ...
"
.........
Those are all attachment... even meditation is attachment if you always depend on it...lol

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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
03:24AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "I told you.. ignorance comes from thinking...lol... "
.........

No, thinking is not the cause
But, it is what sustains the present condition
Ignorance comes from only having the one way of looking at this world.
When one realizes the truth, one can truy see ones true self
This is the lost of ignorance and the beginning of wisdom and understanding.

But, blame whatever you like ... it is what makes the world go around .. hahahaha
"
.........

Yeah the only way most people are looking at the world is thinking...lol
"
.........

What is your way of looking at the world, leoj99?
"
.........
Well seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling... thats it..  what else...

If you are always thinking you are always either in the past or the future... lol
"
.........

Wrong. Look again.
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
03:40AM EDT 
vertical line The Buddha once taught the Bhikkhus about the All:

"I will teach you the All. Listen closely. What is the All? It is eye and visible object,
ear and sound, nose and scent, tongue and taste, body and feelings, mind and ideas.
This is the All.

If anyone says, "This All is not enough. I will claim another All," can it be done?
The speaker might believe it can, but he will not be able to show another All."

[from "Samyutta Nikaya" edited by Anne Bancroft.]
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152009
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
03:49AM EDT 
vertical line What eye do you see with?
When you have fully attained this eye,you will see......
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152013
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
04:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "The Buddha once taught the Bhikkhus about the All:

"I will teach you the All. Listen closely. What is the All? It is eye and visible object,
ear and sound, nose and scent, tongue and taste, body and feelings, mind and ideas.
This is the All.

If anyone says, "This All is not enough. I will claim another All," can it be done?
The speaker might believe it can, but he will not be able to show another All."

[from "Samyutta Nikaya" edited by Anne Bancroft.]
"
.........

Mind and ideas do have their place.

When the eye is clear, the sky is.
When the ear is uncovered, a voice is.
When the body is accepted, feelings are.
When the mind is open, everything is.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152018
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
04:23AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What eye do you see with?
When you have fully attained this eye,you will see......
"
.........

Everyone does. How can they not?
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
04:48AM EDT 
vertical line when the mind is open, everything is endless meditation.

my thought only may noy be yours.
:))
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152021
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
05:32AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "when the mind is open, everything is endless meditation.

my thought only may noy be yours.
:))
"
.........

"When the mind is open, everything is."

 :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152022
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
05:34AM EDT 
vertical line Where did the meditation go? Where did end and endlessness go?

I have no idea. :-P
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152023
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
06:39AM EDT 
vertical line endless meditation is.

what is "is" anyway?
does it move?
does it flow?
is is is?
or is is not?
maybe it is and is not at the same time it is!
maybe is could be it
but then what is is that could become it?

ommmmmmm




vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152025
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
06:43AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Where did the meditation go? Where did end and endlessness go?

I have no idea. :-P


"
.........


where did it go
you just removed it
see our own mind manipulate these things.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152027
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
06:59AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "endless meditation is.

what is "is" anyway?
does it move?
does it flow?
is is is?
or is is not?
maybe it is and is not at the same time it is!
maybe is could be it
but then what is is that could become it?

ommmmmmm




"
.........

I'm cleaning my kitchen and making coffee. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152028
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
07:01AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Where did the meditation go? Where did end and endlessness go?

I have no idea. :-P


"
.........


where did it go
you just removed it
see our own mind manipulate these things.
"
.........

Cleaning-kitchen-and-making-coffee-and-checking-Zen-Guide-mind. :-)
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
07:06AM EDT 
vertical line Big mind watches everything come and go with a big ass smile.

A WHAT smile?!

That's right....my ass is smiling. :-D
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Big mind watches everything come and go with a big ass smile.

A WHAT smile?!

That's right....my ass is smiling. :-D
"
.........

Forgive me, I'm a little excited because the sun is coming up and the birds are singing. :-)
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
07:30AM EDT 
vertical line For the record, I recycle and re-use whatever I can, I use a local bank instead of big banks, I quit my job with the Turkish rug importer because he exploits the people who make the rugs and his employees, I help people whenever and wherever and however I can, I still teach people about the Federal Reserve and fractional-reserve banking on occasion (among other things), I buy and eat local food when I can afford it, and I'm still trying to figure out how to use my skills and experience to do good work helping to heal this planet through sustainable living practices.

Thank you for the movie, cinchona. A good reminder with some important information to help keep things on the right track.

I do not, however, believe in a magic torus as a source of free energy to solve all the world's problems, because free energy does not change the way people think and live. All energy is already free, and it's everywhere. It's called Life. The important thing is that we change our views and intentions to use it wisely instead of in ignorant destruction and suffering.
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Reply from justin
May.08.2013
07:47AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


i denotes a frame of mind which is not only restricted to allocated formal sitting time, and then runs wild outside of that, this frame of mind is constantly sitting.
"
.........

Is it?
"
.........

yep, but we are always going to have semantic confusion with words

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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
08:31AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


i denotes a frame of mind which is not only restricted to allocated formal sitting time, and then runs wild outside of that, this frame of mind is constantly sitting.
"
.........

Is it?
"
.........

yep, but we are always going to have semantic confusion with words

"
.........

No, you were right. I was just tired at the time I read it. Better now, after some sleep. :-)
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
08:32AM EDT 
vertical line Totally agree with you there eso
do you own a TV? ...... only joking :)

what if everyone had a good healthy local community and fresh food for free, i do believe it's possible, and it could change the way people think. The body and the environment are very closely linked, when one is unbalanced so is the other, when the rivers are poisened so too is the body.
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Reply from cinchona
May.08.2013
08:39AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


An eye in a blue face
Saw an eye in a green face.
'That eye is like to this eye'
Said the first eye,
'But in low place
Not in high place.'
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152040
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Reply from football
May.08.2013
09:03AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Quote: "The Buddha once taught the Bhikkhus about the All:

"I will teach you the All. Listen closely. What is the All? It is eye and visible object,
ear and sound, nose and scent, tongue and taste, body and feelings, mind and ideas.
This is the All.

If anyone says, "This All is not enough. I will claim another All," can it be done?
The speaker might believe it can, but he will not be able to show another All."

[from "Samyutta Nikaya" edited by Anne Bancroft.]
"
.........

agreed.totally

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152042
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Reply from football
May.08.2013
09:06AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Quote: "is is is"
.........

very good.indeed

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Reply from justin
May.08.2013
10:44AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Totally agree with you there eso
do you own a TV? ...... only joking :)

what if everyone had a good healthy local community and fresh food for free, i do believe it's possible, and it could change the way people think. The body and the environment are very closely linked, when one is unbalanced so is the other, when the rivers are poisened so too is the body.
"
.........
yes, but i think free food grown with healthy work, sadly i must agree with the sentiments about poluted environment.

i do not own a tv :) only used it for x-box (i am so ashamed i will hang my head now)

gave it away last year,

went into the loungeroom to have a yarn with the flatmate and saw 10 minutes of prime time two days ago, on his tv,

how can it be possible to instruct or help people so far gone ???(the forum of local 'stars' on that show) and i think many people actually believe the stuff they say. these people pretend to be subject matter experts but their only qualification is reading a script ?????//sad 
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Reply from esoteric
May.08.2013
01:02PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


An eye in a blue face
Saw an eye in a green face.
'That eye is like to this eye'
Said the first eye,
'But in low place
Not in high place.'
"
.........

"Sun on the daisies it means, it does." "Ss, ss, ss," said Gollum. He had been underground a long long time, and was forgetting this sort of thing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152054
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Reply from justin
May.08.2013
01:20PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "endless meditation is just endlessly being aware of your behaviour it is the same as saying endless attention,

watching the rise and fall, with understanding.


An eye in a blue face
Saw an eye in a green face.
'That eye is like to this eye'
Said the first eye,
'But in low place
Not in high place.'
"
.........

"Sun on the daisies it means, it does." "Ss, ss, ss," said Gollum. He had been underground a long long time, and was forgetting this sort of thing.
"
.........


so what has he got in his pocketses, :)


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Reply from leoj99
May.09.2013
12:35AM EDT 
vertical line Wondering if any of you really meditate.. Have you been to a 5 day or 7 day retreats...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152066
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Reply from justin
May.09.2013
01:10AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Wondering if any of you really meditate.. Have you been to a 5 day or 7 day retreats...lol "
.........

is this an honest question ? or just another taunt ?

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Reply from leoj99
May.09.2013
01:18AM EDT 
vertical line Take it as you want it..lol.. This is Zen...
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Reply from justin
May.09.2013
01:27AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line aha, 
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Reply from esoteric
May.09.2013
01:50AM EDT 
vertical line You see how disconnected he is from real human interaction? The only things that he gives any sort of reasonable answer to are Zen koans, and when he does he acts as if only he can understand them.

So isolated in his mind. :-(

Leoj99....WAKE UP!!

Tell us, what did you eat for breakfast this morning? I had oatmeal with milk, and coffee. You?
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Reply from justin
May.09.2013
02:11AM EDT 
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vertical line oatmeal is porridge ?

i like mine with milo,
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