history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Thursday Oct 23 2014 03:53PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Things have never declared themselves empty, nor have they declared
themselves form; and they have not declared themselves right, wrong,
defiled or pure. Nor is there a mind that binds and fetters people.
It is just because... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: SUFFERING
vertical line Posted on May.28.2013 @ 12:29PM EDT by football
Life is pain.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email football
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.28.2013
04:54PM EDT 
vertical line Except for when it's not. Which is most of the time for me, these days. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152793
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.28.2013
05:09PM EDT 
vertical line Life just is. Some of it we get to decide, some of it we don't. Some of it is pain, some of it is joy, wonder, love, hope, beauty, and happiness.

You are a living being, with amazing consciousness that has limitless potential. This is a great gift, though it may not seem like it at times.

Keep going, watching, breathing, LIVING. Let go of limiting beliefs (not easy to do, I know, but you CAN do it with practice).

Follow your heart to all good things in the world, even if it seems there is only one tiny speck of good in a huge mess of bad. One tiny speck of good is better than nothing.

Like a small seed, when you follow that good and take care of it, nurture it, and love it, it will grow until it becomes the entire universe.


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152794
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.28.2013
05:11PM EDT 
vertical line Life is a joyful miracle.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152795
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.28.2013
05:29PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Life is a joyful miracle.
"
.........

Until you've gone through as much suffering as you need to come that realisation.

Until then, more suffering is needed!
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152796
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.28.2013
05:30PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Life is a joyful miracle.
"
.........

Until you've gone through as much suffering as you need to come that realisation.

Until then, more suffering is needed!
"
.........

*After you've gone through
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152797
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
May.29.2013
01:10AM EDT 
vertical line Life is pain because you are always thinking about the pain..lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152799
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
02:34AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Life is pain because you are always thinking about the pain..lol "
.........

Pain is not the same thing as suffering.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152801
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
02:38AM EDT 
vertical line Forcing yourself to not think about pain is ignoring pain. Ignoring pain is ignorance.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152802
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.29.2013
05:01AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Perhaps as we progress into realization on Buddhism concept , our emotions / our desire / our emotion on suffering / joy etc will naturally decreased and naturally towards freedom of it .....towards emptiness .

So in this concept , as we progress life will be less suffering ..........

Thks

CSEe 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152808
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
05:30AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Perhaps as we progress into realization on Buddhism concept , our emotions / our desire / our emotion on suffering / joy etc will naturally decreased and naturally towards freedom of it .....towards emptiness .

So in this concept , as we progress life will be less suffering ..........

Thks

CSEe 

"
.........

There is no Buddhism or any other concept in my cup of coffee. Coffee is too stupid to suffer, or worry about freedom or emptiness.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152810
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.29.2013
09:20AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear esoteric , you said " There is no Buddhism or any other concept in my cup of coffee. Coffee is too stupid to suffer, or worry about freedom or emptiness." un-quote

Dear esoteric , whatever you might think , what ever is your action all is part of your journey into emptiness .........nothing could escape from Buddhism .....Perhaps as you progress , you will never notice the cup or the coffee or have any sense to own the cup or the coffee ........
Thats Buddhism my dear friend .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152815
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
10:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said " There is no Buddhism or any other concept in my cup of coffee. Coffee is too stupid to suffer, or worry about freedom or emptiness." un-quote

Dear esoteric , whatever you might think , what ever is your action all is part of your journey into emptiness .........nothing could escape from Buddhism .....Perhaps as you progress , you will never notice the cup or the coffee or have any sense to own the cup or the coffee ........
Thats Buddhism my dear friend .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Not noticing the cup or the coffee would certainly not be progress. That happens every time I am not sitting here with my cup of coffee.

Like a few minutes ago when i was asleep, I had no idea about cups or coffee. Now I sit here and there's my cup. And now I pick it up and...oh, it's empty! Time to go make the coffee. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152818
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
10:25AM EDT 
vertical line Someday, this body will get sick or old or injured and it will die, and go back to the nothing from which it came.

Until then, there's coffee. That's Buddhism. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152819
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
10:38AM EDT 
vertical line Buddhism has nothing to do with journey to emptiness. Emptiness is already here. Emptiness is already behind you, and in front of you, and all around you. There is no journey to emptiness.

In the meantime, the universe is limitless. So I sit and watch limitless and emptiness while sipping my coffee. Every now and then I stop in here and say hello to my good friends. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152820
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
May.29.2013
11:20AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line What is the nature of suffering?

Craving and ignorance
Craving is having desires ... endless desires
Ignorance is not knowing the truth of our nature
The clinging to this craving and ignorance is what causes suffering.

The end of suffering is following the eightfold path
1. RIGHT UNDERSTANDING
Buddhism is based on knowledge and not on unreasonable belief.

2. RIGHT THOUGHTS

3. RIGHT SPEECH

4. RIGHT ACTION

5. RIGHT LIVELIHOOD
Right Livelihood means earning one's living in a way that is not harmful to others.

6. RIGHT EFFORT
The Buddha teaches that attaining happiness and Enlightenment depends upon one's own efforts.

7. RIGHT MINDFULNESS
Right Mindfulness is the awareness of one's deeds, words and thoughts.

8. RIGHT MEDITATION
Meditation means the gradual process of training the mind to focus on a single object and to remain fixed upon the object without wavering. The constant practice of meditation helps to develop a calm and concentrated mind and helps to prepare for the ultimate attainment of Wisdom and Enlightenment.

This stuff is found right here on this website.
Zen guide .... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152821
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
11:28AM EDT 
vertical line Welcome back, Avisitor. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152822
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from football
May.29.2013
03:32PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line If NOTHING HOLY what are we talking about?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152824
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.29.2013
05:50PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "If NOTHING HOLY what are we talking about?"
.........

Suffering.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152826
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from so_teh
May.29.2013
08:49PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Life is suffering. That means it can only get better from knowing that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152835
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.29.2013
10:28PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear esoteric , you said " Not noticing the cup or the coffee would certainly not be progress. That happens every time I am not sitting here with my cup of coffee.

Like a few minutes ago when i was asleep, I had no idea about cups or coffee. Now I sit here and there's my cup. And now I pick it up and...oh, it's empty! Time to go make the coffee. :-)" un-quote

To me in the concept of Buddhism , as you progress into greater realization , Not noticing to cup  to me meant you do not create desire to know it , you will naturally be free of attachment on the knowledge of the cup ...............so the action to sleep , to sit , to pick up , to make , to realize the existance of the cup , the bed , the comparison regard to condition of the cup being fill or empty is part of your process of realization , part of your journey into freedom of all your desire / emotions / knowledge..............so all the action / the intention / the so call wisdom is all part of your own naturally process into emptiness - Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe  

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152848
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.29.2013
10:39PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "What is the nature of suffering?

Craving and ignorance
Craving is having desires ... endless desires
Ignorance is not knowing the truth of our nature
The clinging to this craving and ignorance is what causes suffering.

The end of suffering is following the eightfold path
1. RIGHT UNDERSTANDING
Buddhism is based on knowledge and not on unreasonable belief.

2. RIGHT THOUGHTS

3. RIGHT SPEECH

4. RIGHT ACTION

5. RIGHT LIVELIHOOD
Right Livelihood means earning one's living in a way that is not harmful to others.

6. RIGHT EFFORT
The Buddha teaches that attaining happiness and Enlightenment depends upon one's own efforts.

7. RIGHT MINDFULNESS
Right Mindfulness is the awareness of one's deeds, words and thoughts.

8. RIGHT MEDITATION
Meditation means the gradual process of training the mind to focus on a single object and to remain fixed upon the object without wavering. The constant practice of meditation helps to develop a calm and concentrated mind and helps to prepare for the ultimate attainment of Wisdom and Enlightenment.

This stuff is found right here on this website.
Zen guide .... hahaha
"
.........

Perhaps the nature of suffering is the same and equal as the nature of love / compassion / fear / desire etc ............and Buddhism is a process leading to freedom of this nature back ito emptiness .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152849
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
May.30.2013
12:29AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line

Perhaps the nature of suffering is the same and equal as the nature of love / compassion / fear / desire etc ............and Buddhism is a process leading to freedom of this nature back ito emptiness .


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

You dismiss the nature of suffering to be the same as everything else.
That you are the same as the dirt beneath my feet.
And, that Buddhism is nothing but a process to emptiness.

If you ever get to that emptiness you seek then you may find that in emptiness .. there is everything.
You will reap what you sow ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152850
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
04:44AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said " Not noticing the cup or the coffee would certainly not be progress. That happens every time I am not sitting here with my cup of coffee.

Like a few minutes ago when i was asleep, I had no idea about cups or coffee. Now I sit here and there's my cup. And now I pick it up and...oh, it's empty! Time to go make the coffee. :-)" un-quote

To me in the concept of Buddhism , as you progress into greater realization , Not noticing to cup  to me meant you do not create desire to know it , you will naturally be free of attachment on the knowledge of the cup ...............so the action to sleep , to sit , to pick up , to make , to realize the existance of the cup , the bed , the comparison regard to condition of the cup being fill or empty is part of your process of realization , part of your journey into freedom of all your desire / emotions / knowledge..............so all the action / the intention / the so call wisdom is all part of your own naturally process into emptiness - Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe  

"
.........

No, thank you. :-)

I have no need for natural process into emptiness. You go ahead and hold onto that for as long as you like, while I sit and enjoy my coffee, and wash my cup afterwards. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152852
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
04:56AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said " Not noticing the cup or the coffee would certainly not be progress. That happens every time I am not sitting here with my cup of coffee.

Like a few minutes ago when i was asleep, I had no idea about cups or coffee. Now I sit here and there's my cup. And now I pick it up and...oh, it's empty! Time to go make the coffee. :-)" un-quote

To me in the concept of Buddhism , as you progress into greater realization , Not noticing to cup  to me meant you do not create desire to know it , you will naturally be free of attachment on the knowledge of the cup ...............so the action to sleep , to sit , to pick up , to make , to realize the existance of the cup , the bed , the comparison regard to condition of the cup being fill or empty is part of your process of realization , part of your journey into freedom of all your desire / emotions / knowledge..............so all the action / the intention / the so call wisdom is all part of your own naturally process into emptiness - Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe  

"
.........

Oh, wow. You're completely correct. I see now that everything in the world is just created by your desire to know it, and Buddhism is the natural process by which you journey to freedom from desire, emotions, and knowledge of all things, until you finally find freedom into emptiness, with no desire, no emotion, and no knowledge. No being, no awareness, no life, no world, nothing. Nothing at all. NOTHING.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152853
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
05:01AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "

Perhaps the nature of suffering is the same and equal as the nature of love / compassion / fear / desire etc ............and Buddhism is a process leading to freedom of this nature back ito emptiness .


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

You dismiss the nature of suffering to be the same as everything else.
That you are the same as the dirt beneath my feet.
And, that Buddhism is nothing but a process to emptiness.

If you ever get to that emptiness you seek then you may find that in emptiness .. there is everything.
You will reap what you sow ... hahaha
"
.........

"
.........

You dismiss the nature of suffering to be the same as everything else.
That you are the same as the dirt beneath my feet.
And, that Buddhism is nothing but a process to emptiness.

If you ever get to that emptiness you seek then you may find that in emptiness .. there is everything.
You will reap what you sow ... hahaha"
.........

Dear Avisitor , first of all I do not seek anything and in my current understanding if ever I in emptiness that means that I already free from myself , free from any knowledge on anything so how could it be possible to ' know" anything in emptiness ?

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152854
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
05:07AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Esoteric , you said I quote " No, thank you. :-)

I have no need for natural process into emptiness. You go ahead and hold onto that for as long as you like, while I sit and enjoy my coffee, and wash my cup afterwards. :-) Un-quote

Sorry to interfere your life but we are here in Zen Guide for discussion on Buddhism so to me is common sense we discuss our views / opinion on Buddhism ..........dont you agree that while you having coffee we could discuss ?

 To me , Buddhism is NEVER a choice for all living or non-living ....it is the only process naturally on anything and everything ...so how could you escape from Buddhism ?

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152855
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
05:13AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear esoteric , you said " Not noticing the cup or the coffee would certainly not be progress. That happens every time I am not sitting here with my cup of coffee.

Like a few minutes ago when i was asleep, I had no idea about cups or coffee. Now I sit here and there's my cup. And now I pick it up and...oh, it's empty! Time to go make the coffee. :-)" un-quote

To me in the concept of Buddhism , as you progress into greater realization , Not noticing to cup  to me meant you do not create desire to know it , you will naturally be free of attachment on the knowledge of the cup ...............so the action to sleep , to sit , to pick up , to make , to realize the existance of the cup , the bed , the comparison regard to condition of the cup being fill or empty is part of your process of realization , part of your journey into freedom of all your desire / emotions / knowledge..............so all the action / the intention / the so call wisdom is all part of your own naturally process into emptiness - Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe  

"
.........

Oh, wow. You're completely correct. I see now that everything in the world is just created by your desire to know it, and Buddhism is the natural process by which you journey to freedom from desire, emotions, and knowledge of all things, until you finally find freedom into emptiness, with no desire, no emotion, and no knowledge. No being, no awareness, no life, no world, nothing. Nothing at all. NOTHING.
"
.........

"
.........

Oh, wow. You're completely correct. I see now that everything in the world is just created by your desire to know it, and Buddhism is the natural process by which you journey to freedom from desire, emotions, and knowledge of all things, until you finally find freedom into emptiness, with no desire, no emotion, and no knowledge. No being, no awareness, no life, no world, nothing. Nothing at all. NOTHING.
"
.........

you are close to my current understanding .....just that freedom is NOT something we found , is ourselves , the condition we in .............so as we progress the condition changes , ourselves changes and emptiness is also a condition perhaps nothingness is free of all even condition .................

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152856
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from football
May.30.2013
05:37AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Quote: "Life is suffering. That means it can only get better from knowing that."
.........

I can't get pleasure from life.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152859
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
06:39AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Life is suffering. That means it can only get better from knowing that."
.........

I can't get pleasure from life.

"
.........

"
.........

Perhaps you are "living" in the life , getting more rubbish in your life , fill your life with knowledge , creates more self , gaining more emotion in your life ......, perhaps you have faith you own your life , perhaps you base on your knowledge to view your life ......................life in Buddhism is just a tools for you to realize yourself ........and as you progress into your life , yourself will naturally decreased and the feeling of less self , less burden of the self can be descriped as ' happy ' , "freedom" ..........life is not a reason for you to creates more self or gain more burden....... ....awake to understand Buddhism , progressingly into that path naturally will present you with a condition of pleasure , happy , ease , less burden , freedom .............

I am still in my process learning this  accepting it will be a great challenge .

Thks

CSEe 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152862
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.30.2013
08:12AM EDT 
vertical line Football is pain.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152868
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
May.30.2013
10:11AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Dear Avisitor , first of all I do not seek anything and in my current understanding if ever I in emptiness that means that I already free from myself , free from any knowledge on anything so how could it be possible to ' know" anything in emptiness ?

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

Hmmm, looking at your past posts, we can see where you said you were looking for Buddhism in the light of your death. Now you wish to amend your statement every time some one uses your own words against you???

So, okay, you don't seek anything. Then give up on Buddhism ... now!!! ... hahaha
Also, you don't know emptiness so why do you pretend to know what is there or not there.

Look again at the eight fold path. That is your guide in Buddhism.
Reject it and you reject Buddhism. Which means that you have made up your own religion .... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152880
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.30.2013
10:31AM EDT 
vertical line Haemorrhoidalism.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152881
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
12:15PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " Hmmm, looking at your past posts, we can see where you said you were looking for Buddhism in the light of your death. Now you wish to amend your statement every time some one uses your own words against you??? Un-quote

Sincerely thanks alot for your concern , I guess you are refering to the reason I found myself in the concept of Buddhism ....and my continue learning process in this path ......maybe I need to explain further . I found my reason to agree with the concept of Buddhism as I learnt from my understanding of Mr Siddharta's finding especially on his two words - awake and emptiness as a result of my extreame fear on death .

So dear Avisitor , I have no interest to lie to you and no reason to defend myself here ...I never "looking for" Buddhism but rather found my reason to realize it .

you said , I quote " So, okay, you don't seek anything. Then give up on Buddhism ... now!!! ... hahaha " Un-quote

In my current understanding , that is imposible ....nothing and no one can give up on Buddhism .......you just cant my friend . I wish to debate with you on this if you interested .

You said , I quote " Also, you don't know emptiness so why do you pretend to know what is there or not there." Un-quote

No , I dont but currently is reasonable for me to believe the concept of Buddhism ......that part of understanding is not realization but solely knowledge... my friend .....you see , in my current understanding ,Buddhism is a process of self realization , acceptance and freedom of self .....so all the knowledge , the experiences , the discovery as in my journey known as life is just a tiny part in the whole process of Buddhism .....so in short , my understanding on emptiness is just a knowledge NOT realization as I am still not yet reach to that level of self acceptance / that condition of emptiness .....................

You said , I quote " Look again at the eight fold path. That is your guide in Buddhism." un-quote

If that is your guide , what is that got to do with me ? You have your reason and I perhaps have mine ....and the beuty of communication is we could share ...so lets share my friend .

 
You said , I quote " Reject it and you reject Buddhism. Which means that you have made up your own religion .... hahaha" Un-quote

In my current understanding , NO one , no living nor human , animal , plant , micro-orgsm or non-living - rock , water , table , computer , condom , phone could ever reject or escape from Buddhism .... Buddhism is the only truth , the one and only process ........and is natural ...........I could debate with you on this for my learning lesson if you interested

Thks

CSEe  

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152882
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.30.2013
12:17PM EDT 
vertical line ^Suffering. Piles of it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152883
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
May.30.2013
12:20PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Haemorrhoidalism."
.........



haha i missed you
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152886
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
May.30.2013
08:26PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor ,
...

Thks


CSEe  

"
.........

You have a way with turning words around to your favor.
Fine. Defend your beliefs. Nothing will change.
And, you will never know the truth.

As for the eightfold path and Buddhism, you seem to believe that you can separate yourself from Buddha (and his teachings) and still call it Buddhism.
Seems to me that you have created your own religion. Defend your beliefs again?? Please don't bother. You are who you wish to be.
You choose not to learn but to debate your beliefs.
That is fine. The journey is longer. Hopefully you will see the truth someday.
I wish you luck on going your own way.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152896
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
08:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Avisitor ,
...

Thks


CSEe  

"
.........

You have a way with turning words around to your favor.
Fine. Defend your beliefs. Nothing will change.
And, you will never know the truth.

As for the eightfold path and Buddhism, you seem to believe that you can separate yourself from Buddha (and his teachings) and still call it Buddhism.
Seems to me that you have created your own religion. Defend your beliefs again?? Please don't bother. You are who you wish to be.
You choose not to learn but to debate your beliefs.
That is fine. The journey is longer. Hopefully you will see the truth someday.
I wish you luck on going your own way.
"
.........

He's not defending his beliefs, he's just expressing them.

He (and you) teach me to just read and comprehend.

He says he wants to debate, which I don't perceive to be entirely true.

Maybe what he really wants is just to be heard and understood. I don't know if that's entirely true either, but it's certainly worth it to practice just reading and understanding. Maybe repeat back what he says until understanding is there. And ask him to explain something that isn't understood.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152898
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
09:05PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " Hmmm, looking at your past posts, we can see where you said you were looking for Buddhism in the light of your death. Now you wish to amend your statement every time some one uses your own words against you??? Un-quote

Sincerely thanks alot for your concern , I guess you are refering to the reason I found myself in the concept of Buddhism ....and my continue learning process in this path ......maybe I need to explain further . I found my reason to agree with the concept of Buddhism as I learnt from my understanding of Mr Siddharta's finding especially on his two words - awake and emptiness as a result of my extreame fear on death .

So dear Avisitor , I have no interest to lie to you and no reason to defend myself here ...I never "looking for" Buddhism but rather found my reason to realize it .

you said , I quote " So, okay, you don't seek anything. Then give up on Buddhism ... now!!! ... hahaha " Un-quote

In my current understanding , that is imposible ....nothing and no one can give up on Buddhism .......you just cant my friend . I wish to debate with you on this if you interested .

You said , I quote " Also, you don't know emptiness so why do you pretend to know what is there or not there." Un-quote

No , I dont but currently is reasonable for me to believe the concept of Buddhism ......that part of understanding is not realization but solely knowledge... my friend .....you see , in my current understanding ,Buddhism is a process of self realization , acceptance and freedom of self .....so all the knowledge , the experiences , the discovery as in my journey known as life is just a tiny part in the whole process of Buddhism .....so in short , my understanding on emptiness is just a knowledge NOT realization as I am still not yet reach to that level of self acceptance / that condition of emptiness .....................

You said , I quote " Look again at the eight fold path. That is your guide in Buddhism." un-quote

If that is your guide , what is that got to do with me ? You have your reason and I perhaps have mine ....and the beuty of communication is we could share ...so lets share my friend .

 
You said , I quote " Reject it and you reject Buddhism. Which means that you have made up your own religion .... hahaha" Un-quote

In my current understanding , NO one , no living nor human , animal , plant , micro-orgsm or non-living - rock , water , table , computer , condom , phone could ever reject or escape from Buddhism .... Buddhism is the only truth , the one and only process ........and is natural ...........I could debate with you on this for my learning lesson if you interested

Thks

CSEe  

"
.........

CSEe,

Honestly, after all these debates, I had forgotten that you had expressed your fear of death a while ago. I remember you telling about that, and how it led to studying Buddhism. I can see now how that is related to your current understanding of Buddhism.

How are you doing with that fear? Are you still having problems with fear of death?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152900
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
09:10PM EDT 
vertical line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.30.2013
12:17PM GMT-5 
?Email Joe Chip
?Mark as Inappropriate
?View Joe Chip's other postings
?Ignore all Joe Chip's postings

Quote:
"^Suffering. Piles of it."
.........

Yes. Piles of it. ^
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152901
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
09:31PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Haemorrhoidalism."
.........

haha i missed you
"
.........

Actually, that itchy butt problem I told you about was probably hemorrhoidal. (I'm not entirely sure, because the doctor I saw about it didn't find anything, but he didn't seem terribly competent either. It was a free clinic.)

I had spent a great deal of time sitting at a computer for my photo editing job (which I have since finished), and I had stopped paying attention to the way I was sitting. And then, when the problem arose, I was mindlessly irritating it further with the itch/scratch cycle.

It's a real bitch, having an ithcy/painful bum. There was a lot of suffering with that. Much better now, thankfully, and getting better every day with less sitting and more attention and care.

It's one of those things we often think will never happen to us. But it happens quite commonly, it turns out. I ended up getting great information and encouragement from the website embarrassingproblems.com. The article on anal itching gets the most hits, interestingly. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152903
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
09:33PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "
Reply from Joe Chip
May.30.2013
12:17PM GMT-5 
?Email Joe Chip
?Mark as Inappropriate
?View Joe Chip's other postings
?Ignore all Joe Chip's postings

Quote:
"^Suffering. Piles of it."
.........

Yes. Piles of it. ^
"
.........

So, how have you been, Mr. Joe Chip? What's been going on with you lately?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152904
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
May.30.2013
09:42PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Haemorrhoidalism."
.........

haha i missed you
"
.........

Actually, that itchy butt problem I told you about was probably hemorrhoidal. (I'm not entirely sure, because the doctor I saw about it didn't find anything, but he didn't seem terribly competent either. It was a free clinic.)

I had spent a great deal of time sitting at a computer for my photo editing job (which I have since finished), and I had stopped paying attention to the way I was sitting. And then, when the problem arose, I was mindlessly irritating it further with the itch/scratch cycle.

It's a real bitch, having an ithcy/painful bum. There was a lot of suffering with that. Much better now, thankfully, and getting better every day with less sitting and more attention and care.

It's one of those things we often think will never happen to us. But it happens quite commonly, it turns out. I ended up getting great information and encouragement from the website embarrassingproblems.com. The article on anal itching gets the most hits, interestingly. :-)
"
.........


;) we have a lot of worms here  (especially if you are near animals) a good dose of worming tablets, is often prescribed. (but i am not a doctor)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152905
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.30.2013
09:50PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Esoteric , you said , I quote "Honestly, after all these debates, I had forgotten that you had expressed your fear of death a while ago. I remember you telling about that, and how it led to studying Buddhism. I can see now how that is related to your current understanding of Buddhism.

How are you doing with that fear? Are you still having problems with fear of death?
" un-quote

When I was 10 years old , my fear of my death is extreame but now that feeling had reduced greatly , I can sleep while thinking of it , can have sex while realizing it , can enjoy my hobby while feeling it ........now after having family , my greatest challenge is on the death of my love one not much on me ........I am learning my friend .........debate with others in internet , direct discussion with people is a great source for me to explore myself ......so I hope more people willing to debate with me on Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152908
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
09:52PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Haemorrhoidalism."
.........

haha i missed you
"
.........

Actually, that itchy butt problem I told you about was probably hemorrhoidal. (I'm not entirely sure, because the doctor I saw about it didn't find anything, but he didn't seem terribly competent either. It was a free clinic.)

I had spent a great deal of time sitting at a computer for my photo editing job (which I have since finished), and I had stopped paying attention to the way I was sitting. And then, when the problem arose, I was mindlessly irritating it further with the itch/scratch cycle.

It's a real bitch, having an ithcy/painful bum. There was a lot of suffering with that. Much better now, thankfully, and getting better every day with less sitting and more attention and care.

It's one of those things we often think will never happen to us. But it happens quite commonly, it turns out. I ended up getting great information and encouragement from the website embarrassingproblems.com. The article on anal itching gets the most hits, interestingly. :-)
"
.........


;) we have a lot of worms here  (especially if you are near animals) a good dose of worming tablets, is often prescribed. (but i am not a doctor)
"
.........

Yeah, I actually had that fear for a little while, when I read that those worms could be the cause. It was a disturbing thought, to say the least, along with the basic disturbance of the sensation itself. I'm pretty sure now that it's not/wasn't worms. The doctor didn't see anything like that, and I have checked myself. Not pleasant, but then, that's the nature of living sometimes. Getting over the emotional responses and just doing what needed to be done wasn't easy, but it's a good lesson and good practice. :-)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152909
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
10:22PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Esoteric , you said , I quote "Honestly, after all these debates, I had forgotten that you had expressed your fear of death a while ago. I remember you telling about that, and how it led to studying Buddhism. I can see now how that is related to your current understanding of Buddhism.

How are you doing with that fear? Are you still having problems with fear of death?
" un-quote

When I was 10 years old , my fear of my death is extreame but now that feeling had reduced greatly , I can sleep while thinking of it , can have sex while realizing it , can enjoy my hobby while feeling it ........now after having family , my greatest challenge is on the death of my love one not much on me ........I am learning my friend .........debate with others in internet , direct discussion with people is a great source for me to explore myself ......so I hope more people willing to debate with me on Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

I'm not sure how helpful it is to debate Buddhism, or any other concepts and beliefs. When talking and discussing things, I find it more helpful to talk plainly about things I actually do and feel. Beliefs and ideas, and talking about them, are a clever way of avoiding what's actually happening. Avoiding is something we like to do (and sometimes have to do) when what we really do and feel isn't so pleasant.

I would be happy to discuss with you ways of understanding death, and managing fear of death. That might actually make you feel significantly better, rather than keep that problem there by ignoring it and talking about other things.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152910
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.30.2013
10:27PM EDT 
vertical line Okay, maybe not "happy". But willing, anyway. 
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152911
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
May.30.2013
11:08PM EDT 
vertical line Suffering will only end when you stop thinking... As long as  you are thinking there is suffering...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152912
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from leoj99
May.30.2013
11:14PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "What is the nature of suffering?

Craving and ignorance
Craving is having desires ... endless desires
Ignorance is not knowing the truth of our nature
The clinging to this craving and ignorance is what causes suffering.

The end of suffering is following the eightfold path
1. RIGHT UNDERSTANDING
Buddhism is based on knowledge and not on unreasonable belief.

2. RIGHT THOUGHTS

3. RIGHT SPEECH

4. RIGHT ACTION

5. RIGHT LIVELIHOOD
Right Livelihood means earning one's living in a way that is not harmful to others.

6. RIGHT EFFORT
The Buddha teaches that attaining happiness and Enlightenment depends upon one's own efforts.

7. RIGHT MINDFULNESS
Right Mindfulness is the awareness of one's deeds, words and thoughts.

8. RIGHT MEDITATION
Meditation means the gradual process of training the mind to focus on a single object and to remain fixed upon the object without wavering. The constant practice of meditation helps to develop a calm and concentrated mind and helps to prepare for the ultimate attainment of Wisdom and Enlightenment.

This stuff is found right here on this website.
Zen guide .... hahaha
"
.........

Too many rights.. didn't you know yet that Zen is beyond right and wrong?...lol
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152915
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line Thus, I extract pure $hinola.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152920
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.31.2013
07:25AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Esoteric , the reason I wish to debate rather than talk / chat is when we debate we will forget about relationship / forget about the worry hurting others feeling , forget about shy to state view etc ......if we talk or chat somehow I will find way not to offend you by agreeing or avoiding our differences .......but if I challenge your view and you challenge my view in a debate , both of us are free to explore each others views without any emotions holding us back .......

In many Buddhism website , I normally started with talk / chat but somehow many are trying to teach me , finding ways for me to agree with them and most of them will get angry with me if they fail in their efford ............in my current understanding , is impossible for anyone to teach buddhism to others but all living or non-living is a great source to discover ownself regardless their nature .

My emotion / fear on death is greatly decreased compared to 35 years ago ....now I almost realize that nothing is belong to me and I own nothing ...........nor family , material even "my" body or "my" life ...is never belong to me ......therefore I hope I will be fearless if one day I infected with cancer .....if I do and I understand my day are numbered it will be a challenge to me to believe that the body that infected is never related to me and when the body rot .....that is the body own Buddhism process that never related to me ........ME in my current view is nothingness and the cause of my existance is MYSELF which is all my emotions / will / desire etc .......so when the body rot , I will still be me with the attachment of myself ..........and my Buddhism process continues in another path / another existance until all my emotions / desire / will etc decreased and into emptiness ........and until the condition where I am free from myself , free from any desire / fear / emotion even will to exist.....thats my current understanding of Buddhism ......

Now is a challenge for me to accept that my atmost loveable daughter is never connected to me ......I still need to explore .

Thks

CSEe  

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152923
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
07:28AM EDT 
vertical line Thus we have on stage two men, each of whom knows nothing of what he believes the other knows, and to deceive each other reciprocally both speak in allusions, each of the two hoping (in vain) that the other holds the key to his puzzle.

? Umberto Eco, The Island of the Day Before

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152924
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.31.2013
09:33AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Esoteric , the reason I wish to debate rather than talk / chat is when we debate we will forget about relationship / forget about the worry hurting others feeling , forget about shy to state view etc ......if we talk or chat somehow I will find way not to offend you by agreeing or avoiding our differences .......but if I challenge your view and you challenge my view in a debate , both of us are free to explore each others views without any emotions holding us back .......

In many Buddhism website , I normally started with talk / chat but somehow many are trying to teach me , finding ways for me to agree with them and most of them will get angry with me if they fail in their efford ............in my current understanding , is impossible for anyone to teach buddhism to others but all living or non-living is a great source to discover ownself regardless their nature .

My emotion / fear on death is greatly decreased compared to 35 years ago ....now I almost realize that nothing is belong to me and I own nothing ...........nor family , material even "my" body or "my" life ...is never belong to me ......therefore I hope I will be fearless if one day I infected with cancer .....if I do and I understand my day are numbered it will be a challenge to me to believe that the body that infected is never related to me and when the body rot .....that is the body own Buddhism process that never related to me ........ME in my current view is nothingness and the cause of my existance is MYSELF which is all my emotions / will / desire etc .......so when the body rot , I will still be me with the attachment of myself ..........and my Buddhism process continues in another path / another existance until all my emotions / desire / will etc decreased and into emptiness ........and until the condition where I am free from myself , free from any desire / fear / emotion even will to exist.....thats my current understanding of Buddhism ......

Now is a challenge for me to accept that my atmost loveable daughter is never connected to me ......I still need to explore .

Thks

CSEe  

"
.........

Love your daughter with all of your heart, and in every precious moment just be her father in the best way you know how. And forget all that other crap.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152929
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.31.2013
09:36AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Thus we have on stage two men, each of whom knows nothing of what he believes the other knows, and to deceive each other reciprocally both speak in allusions, each of the two hoping (in vain) that the other holds the key to his puzzle.

? Umberto Eco, The Island of the Day Before

"
.........

How is your daughter doing? I hope she's well. And yourself, too.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152930
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
09:42AM EDT 
vertical line Awella wella wella: 2 daughters.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152933
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.31.2013
10:10AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Awella wella wella: 2 daughters."
.........

My two daughters are quite well. The younger (5) is in a ballet class. She had a recital recently, in which I got to participate with her in a Daddy-Daughter Dance. The older (9) has practiced enough in the last year to perform a perfect one-handed cartwheel (which she's trying to teach me), and is working on beating her 7-second handstand record.

Last weekend I took them to the local nature center, where we got to meet a cute little one-eyed screech owl, with fluffy ears and a gaze of wonder. The male grey wolf was away to the veterinarian having his hip checked out due to a pronounced limp. The female white wolf lay sleeping near the observation area of the vast enclosure, breathing peacefully, her paw twitching occasionally in some unimaginable dream.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152937
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
May.31.2013
10:21AM EDT 
vertical line My girls love the animals. One of them wants to be a veterinarian when she grows up. The other wants to be a waitress. I just want them to be confident, wise, and compassionate, whatever else they decide to be.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152938
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.31.2013
12:35PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Esoteric , you said , I quote " Love your daughter with all of your heart, and in every precious moment just be her father in the best way you know how. And forget all that other crap." un-quote

That is easy for me , thats human culture but I cant find any reason to agree with this in Buddhism's concept .

In my current understanding of Buddhism , I should explore and awake to aware that nothing is belong to me and "my" daughter is actually never related to me at all ......she is same and equal as any being in her own process .......and the special emotion I had created on her is actually resulted from myself ..........so the desire to own her , the special emotion to care for her is actually the cause of my existance - the pollutant in myself and all this pollutant brings joy and suffering to me as in Buddhism suffering and joy is SAME and EQUAL  . Buddhism is a process that I will naturally decrease all such emotion toward emotiness ..................

So my friend , to love her , to care for her more than anyone or anything is my suffering and my joy ....in Buddhism concept , she is SAME and EQUAL as the pen on my table , or the rubbish outside your door ............and I should have same and EQUAL emotion on her with all living or non-living same and equal as the rubbish outside your house  ..............thats Buddhism in my current understanding .

In my current understanding of Buddhism , one will free of all suffering as he awake to aware , aware to realize , realize to accept that all being is SAME and EQUAL and nothing is related to him .....he is always alone in his own journey of his choice in his own world .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152939
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
12:59PM EDT 
vertical line Teach a man to fish and you save yourself a fish.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152941
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
May.31.2013
04:57PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "He's not defending his beliefs, he's just expressing them.

He (and you) teach me to just read and comprehend.

He says he wants to debate, which I don't perceive to be entirely true.

Maybe what he really wants is just to be heard and understood. I don't know if that's entirely true either, but it's certainly worth it to practice just reading and understanding. Maybe repeat back what he says until understanding is there. And ask him to explain something that isn't understood.
"
.........

If you have read his posts then you will see that there is no room for Buddhism and his teachings.
Buddha put forth his four noble truths ... which he believes does not apply to him.
Buddha gave the eightfold path which he rejects for his process of (which he calls) Buddhism.
Then, he says that all things are in the process of Buddhism.
Read and understand that he has made up his own religion and called it Buddhism.
Each time he wishes for a debate .. it is to put forth his beliefs and find ways to improve his theory of his Buddhism.
He refuses traditional teachers and teachings.
I have known many like him. They would all be more than happy to have golden statues built in their image. Though they would deny it.
I have wasted too much time on this already.
Let him be and hope he finds his way.
You know the path. It isn't one of debate.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152946
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
05:42PM EDT 
vertical line Muffin Man
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152947
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
May.31.2013
08:41PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you had always completely never understand me . Have you realize that you actually had debated with me all this while ? Infact sorry to note that you had even go beyond debate by making many accusation against me ...................

Dear Avisitor , I had explain my reason to debate and willing to explain to you again if you ask .

I never have any intention to teach you but since I have reason to believe that you have lots of ill feeling against me , I hope to share some of my personal emotion .

If you realize that nothing is there for you , nothing is belong to you and you are always alone .......you will accepted that pride , ego , knowledge , statues , position that you in is actually a burden to you ......all the emotion , the desire , the will , the knowledge , the material  that you claim to be yours is actually your suffering not only your joy .......so I had accepted that the knowledge , the understanding that I am holding right now will be a burden / suffering to me if I defended them ..............knowledge or understanding is just like running water in the river , if you try to stop it that will cost you trillion ton of energy .........................

Dear Avisitor , I have always taken your accusation with respect and regard them is a source for my learning .....but dont you realize that is suffering to you ?

To me , by defending our so call " beliefs" , knowledge , pride , faith etc is actually to much suffering ...so why you choose to carry tons of burden in your journey ?

I hope to have a great debate with anyone focusing on the topic not living in my life with me .......

Dear Avisitor , may I know who make such remark on me because I wito explain to him .

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152949
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from justin
May.31.2013
08:52PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line my Daughter is going through a i dont need dad stage, but she is well and she is doing well,

hha 9 second handstand that stuff is golden, eso

cse-i can relate to what you say about trying to understand how your daughter is not yours, i have no answers but i think eso is correct just love em. i shared your concerns.

i think in the forum one of the most amazing things is that we all have differant ways of expressing ourselves, and understanding comprehending the noble truths, our methods of searching, our methods of exploration, and i enjoy this page of many colours.

each perspective allows me to see slightly different (yes i know it is all imagination but that is ok .

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152950
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
08:53PM EDT 
vertical line The Sorcerer's Apprentice
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152951
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Joe Chip
May.31.2013
08:56PM EDT 
vertical line I See The Light
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152953
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Jun.01.2013
12:27AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Justin , thanks for your reply . I agree with you that I learn alot from this forum and realization is not something we could record or something we know it before and after ........as I debate / discuss with all of you here , my emotions changes , my condition changed and this is Buddhism .........just flow with the condition , do not trying to stop the water in the river , we could just watch it from river banks or flow with it but if we try to stop it , that cost more suffering to us .....is all our choices .......

In my current condition , my death is still a big issue but perhaps not as big as before , certainly not as big as my love one .....and in my current understanding of Buddhism , this is a process that I will naturally progress into whether I like it or not ...Buddhism is not a process by choice , is not an option but is the one and only happening to all living or non-living .......Buddhism is all - the existance , the living , the livelihood , the world , the action , the re-action , in sport , in sex ...everything and anything ......so as I move on in my life I awake to understand I always have a choice to choose a long / more suffering journey or short / less suffering journey ...in life , perhaps in afterlife , in current existance perhaps in future existance .......the choice is always mine as all my suffering , my joy , my path , is all from myself ........

I am experiencing / discovering this as I move on living my journey ..........and as I move , the burden for carrying myself will decreased and this makes me more " easy " , " happy" , less suffering ......................

I really hope to debate with anyone here and I even hope to debate with Dalai Lama many times in his facebook on Buddhism as part of my learning process ..............

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 152956
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Jun.03.2013
09:13PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor ,

...


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

I hope you will eventually find your way to the truth.
Best wishes to you.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 153004
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Jun.04.2013
01:22AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Avisitor ,

...


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

I hope you will eventually find your way to the truth.
Best wishes to you."
.........

"
.........

I hope you will eventually find your way to the truth.
Best wishes to you.
"
.........

By my culture - thank you , but sincerely I just wish you could more on debating with me as I am very sure you are a great source for my learning process ......

Thks- hope you stay on.

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 153005
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from esoteric
Jun.04.2013
04:24AM EDT 
vertical line That's ZenGuide-ese for "I love you."
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 153006
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this MEDITATION I (SILVER FOIL STAMPED & EMBOSSED)
by Chris Paschke
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °