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  Subhuti was Buddha's disciple. He was able to understand the potency of emptiness, that nothing exists except in its relationship of subjectivity and objectivity. One day, in a mood of sublime emptiness, Subhuti was resting underneath a tree... continue...

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"
.........


I'm sorry but you didn't even understand my simple post.
How could there possibly be any discussion about Buddhism when you don't understand what I am saying now.

No, this was never about getting you to agree.
It was about getting you to become open minded so that you can actually learn instead of constantly reciting you beliefs.

Talk is useless if we can not communicate even the simplest ideas.
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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: MIND
vertical line Posted on Jul.12.2013 @ 12:37PM EDT by football
Your mind knows the way.trust it.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email football
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.12.2013
01:54PM EDT 
vertical line Follow that bubble.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.12.2013
01:59PM EDT 
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vertical line It's almost 1pm and I'm on my second cup of coffee. I begin my days late and end them in the early morning. Everything doing nothing doing. Whatever mind, however mind.
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Reply from football
Jul.12.2013
02:00PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Bubble humble bamble ?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.12.2013
02:02PM EDT 
vertical line Mind the gap and dive into the beat of the mighty heart and see for yourself.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.12.2013
02:07PM EDT 
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vertical line Don't explain. See for yourself.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.12.2013
02:13PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I've came up with 3000 things to say in 5 years on the Zenguide. Next post.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.12.2013
02:24PM EDT 
vertical line Who is definitely counting.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.12.2013
02:36PM EDT 
vertical line Couscous - it's d inner time. See ya later.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.12.2013
09:09PM EDT 
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vertical line The mind doesn't know the way and is deluded.
Study and practice can help.
A teacher can guide your way.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.12.2013
09:47PM EDT 
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Perhaps by attachment on knowledge , human always believes they " know" and always have answer to fulfil their desire to statisfy their question ......so human always believes ..........and holding on their believes . Perhaps that is why human is human , always exist in circle of life / death ..........because we always be ourselves , creating more self , defending ourselves and shaping ourselves as our wish.

Mind is not a answering mechine , or a tool for statisfying our desire ....mind is a condition of continue exploration , a journey into self realization ......

Mind is not a display of knowledge or a tool to expression .....mind is a journey of freedom , liberation of attachment by being awake to aware , aware to realize , realize to accept , accept to further aware ....until there is no energy of desire , emotion or will ...back into nothingness-the Buddha .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.13.2013
06:17AM EDT 
vertical line Look around - - m i n d is Hell.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.13.2013
11:55AM EDT 
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vertical line Monkey Mind
*Remove adjective*
Mind Only
*Transcend*
Presence of Mind
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.14.2013
06:21PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "


Mind is not a answering mechine , or a tool for statisfying our desire ....mind is a condition of continue exploration , a journey into self realization ......



Thks


CSEe

"
.........

from Bodhidharma Bloodstream Sermon:

"But this mind isn’t somewhere outside the material body of four elements. Without this mind we can’t move. The body has no awareness. Like a plant or stone, the body has no nature. So how does it move? It’s the mind that moves. Language and behavior, perception and conception are all functions of the moving mind. All motion is the mind’s motion. Motion is its function. Apart from motion there’s no mind, and apart from the mind there’s no motion. But motion isn’t the mind. And the mind isn’t motion. Motion is basically mindless. And the mind is basically motionless. But motion doesn’t exist without the mind. And the mind doesn’t exist without motion. There is no mind for motion to exist apart from, and no motion for mind to exist apart from. Motion is the mind’s function, and its function is its motion. Even so, the mind neither moves nor functions, the essence of its functioning is emptiness and emptiness is essentially motionless. Motion is the same as the mind. And the mind is essentially motionless. Hence the Sutras tell us to move without moving, to travel without traveling, to see without seeing, to laugh without laughing, to hear without hearing, to know without knowing, to be happy, without being happy, to walk without walking, to stand without standing. And the sutras say, "Go beyond language. Go beyond thought."
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Reply from football
Jul.14.2013
06:59PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Bodhidharma is really a big guy.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.14.2013
10:31PM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , thanks for your quote and I really happy you still interested in discussion with me . In my current understanding , mind is a reflection / collection of all our current emotion and is causing action / re-action or creates intention . Mind is the condition of " ourselves" , is you on a particular time ...you are what your mind NOW , me is what my mind NOW ......mind is MYSELF in present moment ........in Buddhism as what I currently understand ...mind is NOT to creates more emotions or to statisfy my desire ...mind in Buddhism is a condition of being awake , awake to aware any possibilities , aware that I am SAME and EQUAL to all living-human , animal , plant , micro-orgsm or all non-living such as rock , metal , water , pen , dirt etc .............In Buddhism all existence is in each own process towards own liberation into emptiness back into nothingness . So I am same as any human , animal , plant , rock , pen , bicycle etc in each own natural process becoming empty and back into nothing ......Buddhism is a process that I will expore / learn / experience / discover all my mind , realize it , accept it and naturally free of it ...so my creating more mind , creating more knowledge or emotion and attached it in our mind ...we are travelling in longer / more suffering journey into nothingness .......any path we take will eventually end it in nothingness .

My action is just reflection of my mind , my mind is all my emotion , ME is Buddha-the nothingness ....Buddhism is a natural process separating ME from mind ......separating ME from MYSELF ............

Thks & I hope we could debate on this for my learning process .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from so_teh
Jul.14.2013
10:41PM EDT 
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vertical line A mosquito knows the bloodstream sermon better than bodhidharma or bodhidharma and the mosquito are the same. Both with a belly full of blood.
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Reply from football
Jul.15.2013
06:18AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line pentagram
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2013
06:31AM EDT 
vertical line Word to the wise.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2013
06:34AM EDT 
vertical line Dear Mommy, when I see mummy, their action is a reflection of Hell.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.15.2013
09:13AM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "

My action is just reflection of my mind , my mind is all my emotion , ME is Buddha-the nothingness ....Buddhism is a natural process separating ME from mind ......separating ME from MYSELF ............


Thks & I hope we could debate on this for my learning process .


Thks


CSEe 

"
.........

The three marks of existence
Impermanence, suffering, no-self

There is no "me"
Mind is an illusion. It comes from your thinking.
Thoughts comes from your body mind environment
When these things come together, you exist
When these things pass away, you cease to exist
No separation, no process, only illusion.
Believe it beyond all reason then you are deluded.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.15.2013
11:42AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , you said "The three marks of existence
Impermanence, suffering, no-self" un-quote

To me , if you refer to knowledge as the basis of your judgement , you will find 'mark" or prove to your existence .........in my current understanding of Buddhism , is never to use knowledge to "prove" or " mark" of any existence ....but the realization on NOW , the present moment .....the present condition of you ......realization of yourself and acceptance of your existence , realization on the cause of of your existence and awake in present moment ......thats perhaps the "mark" of my existence in my current understanding .

You said , I quote "There is no "me" " un-quote

In my current understanding , yes agreed there was never ME and will never be ME as ME in Buddhism is nothingness .....all is nothingness , so there is no individual just a common original natural condition of all living or non-living .

 
You said , I quote " Mind is an illusion. It comes from your thinking.
Thoughts comes from your body mind environment
When these things come together, you exist
When these things pass away, you cease to exist
No separation, no process, only illusion.
Believe it beyond all reason then you are deluded" un-quote

In my current understanding , mind is not an illusion but a reflection of own emotions / desire / love / compassion / anger / fear etc ...mind is yourself and yourself is all your emotions ...........I exist because of myself , the polluted energy in ME .....this self is causing my existence and this mind will never just vanish or die ......mind will decreased in a lenghtly process of self realization / acceptance and liberation ...this natural process is known to me as Buddhism ...mind will vanish into nothingness in a process known to me as Buddhism ....so I will always exist as long as I still have emotions regardless there is a body or not .......the body is never part of myself but is accepted being belonging to me due to myself ...............so when this body rot , my mind continue it journey into other existence untill all polluted energy naturally released back into nothingness ....

Thats my current understanding of Buddhism .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.15.2013
11:58AM EDT 
vertical line [Don't mind me] - No-mind.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.15.2013
10:16PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line No your mind will not continue into the next existence.
What you believe to be you is caused by the set of conditions that came together in this life.
When your body dies and your mind goes with it, you cease.
There is no process. There is no mind beyond this body.

What you are looking for is the truth of your very nature.
Beyond death, beyond life, Buddha Nature, Nirvana, Satori, whatever you wish to call it.

Believe what you wish.
Truth will reveal itself and then it will be too late.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.15.2013
10:53PM EDT 
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Quote: "No your mind will not continue into the next existence.
What you believe to be you is caused by the set of conditions that came together in this life.
When your body dies and your mind goes with it, you cease.
There is no process. There is no mind beyond this body.

What you are looking for is the truth of your very nature.
Beyond death, beyond life, Buddha Nature, Nirvana, Satori, whatever you wish to call it.

Believe what you wish.
Truth will reveal itself and then it will be too late.
"
.........

Dear Avisitor , you mean mind is to fit in a "life" and dies together with the body that rot .....and never beyond that body ? Lets debate on this please ......

To me , mind is a reflection from all my emotions , this emotions is actually energy that causes my existence NOT the body but mind is the existence ...the body is separated from the mind and is never connected ......the body same as a car that have its own system to operate and I am just a driver ......mind is the driver of the body but at any time the body is never belng to the mind .......the mind is an energy same as the body - a form of energy . The body , the mind same as the pen on your table , same as the tree outside your window or the rubbish inside my house ...all is in own journey releasing its pollutant back into nothingness .....

For the mind , the energy is the will , the desire , the emotions , the feeling of love , compassion , greed etc ....and for the non-living is the material existence of the body that will under-going a process what we know as rotting , rusting , decay , wear etc ...all existence is in own process into emptiness back into nothingness ...thats Buddhism . So mind is not related to the body same as I never related to "my" daughter , wife, father etc .....we are all alone in our journey of our choice in our world in own process into nothingness .

What is truth my dear master ? Finding own self ? Have faith in Siddharta? To me there s only one natural process and perhaps that is the only truth - BUDDHISM . Buddhism is the only process of all existence regardless their nature .....all existence whether living or non-living is in Buddhism not by choice , not by desire but its natural .......so we can choice a longer / more suffering path or a shorther / less suffering path ........thats the practice ......dear sir , I never believe or have faith of anything including my own , just awake to aware .......please stay and debate .  

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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.15.2013
11:29PM EDT 
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The truth will revealed and thats will be the end............not too late , just natural - Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2013
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line Fruitless trees for sale. Grapefruit has nothing to do with grapes.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2013
07:38AM EDT 
vertical line A famous Persian proverb: Buddhism is a conceptual grid through which you skew the world.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2013
07:39AM EDT 
vertical line As natural as t'aint.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.16.2013
08:21AM EDT 
vertical line . His mind misgave .
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.20.2013
02:02PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line My karma is an issue.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.20.2013
02:34PM EDT 
vertical line What day is it?


Here's an excerpt [...]

of the publishing sensation of the epoch 'Prequel No.1' - to be reprinted sometime next year as a podcast available for the past 2,000 years from iToon. Download yours now and you won't be disappointed.

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Reply from so_teh
Jul.20.2013
02:52PM EDT 
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vertical line Seriously, what day is it?
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.20.2013
02:54PM EDT 
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vertical line It was a question a voice asked me last night when I was assuming karmic shackles.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.20.2013
03:09PM EDT 
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vertical line Some other things, and some other stuff... I don't know...

Better to be going nowhere than going in circles...

Oh well...
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.20.2013
03:36PM EDT 
vertical line The real Pole is North of Nowhere.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.28.2013
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line Pointless.
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.28.2013
03:36PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Provided it is what it is, respectively. Then it is what it is, respectively.

Pointless taken.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.28.2013
06:52PM EDT 
vertical line Sunbeam in on me baby - let's play in the clouds.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2013
11:12AM EDT 
vertical line Lola
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Reply from frozenaomi
Jul.29.2013
12:26PM EDT 
Email frozenaomi
vertical line Quote: "The real Pole is North of Nowhere."
.........

Ninety degrees from everywhere?
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.29.2013
01:24PM EDT 
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vertical line About the mind, is it the brain? the gut? big toe?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.29.2013
02:31PM EDT 
vertical line From The Morning
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.29.2013
02:47PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "About the mind, is it the brain? the gut? big toe? "
.........

The mind comes forth from the aggregate called the body.
When the body ceases, the mind will too.
If you seek what will be after death then look at what exist before birth and dwell there.

When just sitting, the mind calms and awareness continues reflecting what is in front of it.
It happens in the split of the moment.
Grasping it and it slips further away.
Why was it made this way?
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Reply from football
Jul.29.2013
03:22PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line I call it right continuity.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.30.2013
10:47AM EDT 
vertical line Rosie
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.30.2013
07:23PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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In my current understanding on Buddhism concept , mind is a reflection of own collective emotion , mind is our referral to our attachment on our emotion , mind reflects emotion , without emotion there will be no mind .....In my current understanding , our emotions such as all desire , love , fear , greed , ego , will etc is the energy that causes our existence , we exist because we have the will to exist , we have the emotion for exist ......body is just the car that never owned by us . Ourselves is emotions , we in nature are NOTHINGNESS- the Buddha .

So Buddhism in my current understanding is the only process , separating ourselves and us towards emptiness back into nothingness , back into our original condition .

Everything / everyone regardless living or non-living is all in this process leading into nothingness that cant be stopped ...is natural..this process is introduced to mankind by Siddharta known as Buddhism .

Death is the body progressing into another stage in its process that never connected to us .....we will still exist as long as we still have the will to exist , and we will naturally progressing decreasing in all emotions , until we have no emotion ....the emptiness , back into nothingness , the Buddha , the original condition of all living or non-living .

So mind will still exist and continue after brain stop..............we are the mind .

Lets debate ....

Thks CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Jul.30.2013
08:55PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line 4 Noble Truths
Suffering, It's Cause, It's End & The Path

5 Essential Themes
Love, Mercy, Reality, Being & Void

3 Everyday Secrets
Drink Tea/Coffee, Take Care & Rest
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.30.2013
09:59PM EDT 
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Quote: "4 Noble Truths
Suffering, It's Cause, It's End & The Path

5 Essential Themes
Love, Mercy, Reality, Being & Void

3 Everyday Secrets
Drink Tea/Coffee, Take Care & Rest
"
.........

Perhaps you could share with me base on your own understanding of it ......?

Thks CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Jul.31.2013
12:07AM EDT 
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vertical line Natural, Unfocused, Relaxed
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.31.2013
01:59AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

So mind will still exist and continue after brain stop..............we are the mind .


Thks CSEe

"
.........

From the three marks of existence which comes from Buddha himself:
Impermanence, suffering, no-self

Impermanence ... all things made from aggregates or compound will not last.
Meaning is that your body and mind, which is made up of aggregates, will cease to exist ...
The body dies and turns to dust ... along with it, the mind ceases to exist.

Suffering ... is caused by ignorance and clinging.
Ignorance of the true nature of man, of all things.
Clinging to your notions, ideas and emotions..

No-self ... this person who you believe yourself to be??
Well, it doesn't really exist beyond this mortal boundary.
It is made up from the coming together of conditions.
When the conditions are gone, the self is gone.

There is no arguing nor any debate.
These things were given to us by the Buddha.
If you believe yourself better than the Buddha then argue with him ... hahaha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.31.2013
02:41AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , I have reasons to believe that you have lots of knowledge on Buddhism studies , perhaps you could use it and with your own understanding of the so call " teaching" from Siddharta , we could debate ..................

I do not have any hope to ask Siddharta but I really hope to debate with you ........Dear Sir , what is your own version of mind ? and what is the reason you agree with the so call " Buddha's teaching"..?

I have given my version of mind and explain it quite clear ...so perhaps you could do the same . Lets debate my friend ............

Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.31.2013
02:49AM EDT 
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There is one quote which I choose to believe from Siddharta and I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you heard , or read even if I have said it unless it agrees with your own common sense".......un-quote

Dear Avisitor , we are free to choose what to believe ......if you stick to what you know and create faith on it , believe it with all your heart ...well I would agree with you there is nothing to debate because you are not yourself ...you are the knowledge that you gain , perhaps the same knowledge I could find in internat / books or any monastry ....

Dear Avisitor , I really hope to debate with you base on your own understanding not your knowledge .......because knowledge is something we cant debate ......but the realization of the knowledge / own understanding is something of great learning lesson for me .

I am not here to show off , never I had such intention or to teach others ...I am here just to learn .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2013
06:07AM EDT 
vertical line I don't believe you.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.31.2013
07:56AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I don't believe you."
.........

You do not need to believe me and is never my intention to makes you believe me . Is always my intention to learn not to seek agreement here .

In Buddhism concept , faith / beliefs is taking longer journey into self realization .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2013
08:28AM EDT 
vertical line A belief in ....... is a denial of .......

[fill in the theological concept of your choice]
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.31.2013
12:06PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

There is one quote which I choose to believe from Siddharta and I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you heard , or read even if I have said it unless it agrees with your own common sense".......un-quote


.........

Buddha asked that one believes nothing that is told or read but to use your own common sense.
Its meaning is to verify for yourself all that is given.
Not to disregard everything.

There is no debate cause you must verify it for yourself.
So what sense does it make to debate points of view??

One must go about trying to verify everything that was taught or given by the Buddha.
How??
By doing the practices that was given as a method of verifying for oneself the truth of ones own nature.
No debate is necessary.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Jul.31.2013
12:35PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

There is one quote which I choose to believe from Siddharta and I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you heard , or read even if I have said it unless it agrees with your own common sense".......un-quote


.........

Buddha asked that one believes nothing that is told or read but to use your own common sense.
Its meaning is to verify for yourself all that is given.
Not to disregard everything.

There is no debate cause you must verify it for yourself.
So what sense does it make to debate points of view??

One must go about trying to verify everything that was taught or given by the Buddha.
How??
By doing the practices that was given as a method of verifying for oneself the truth of ones own nature.
No debate is necessary."
.........

"
.........

Perhaps you are trying to verify Siddharta words ........perhaps that is part  your learning process to discover yourself . To me Siddharta words is same as your words , same as the sound of birds on the tree , same as your pen on your table ..all is just a source for own learning process .

If we spend times only focusing on anything , trying to prove others existence , we will continue our suffering of trying to fulfill our desire ........we will always blooming with emotions , creating more emotion by gaining more knowledge .....thats more suffering my friend . Why cant you learn from Siddharta's words regardless whether is truely from him or not and go on with your common sense ..........why we need to be like him , live in his life ?

Now I have reason to understand why you avoiding debate with me .....sorry in advance perhaps Avisitor never exist........you never present here , the one discussing with me is " Siddharta's shadow".........Dear Avisitor , sorry if my words offended you . I sincerely hope to debate with YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF BUDDHISM , NOT YOUR KNOWLEDGE ON BUDDHISM .

Knowledge is easy to find in internat / books etc , is you whom I am interested not the ghost of Siddharta ...

Thks / again sorry

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2013
12:46PM EDT 
vertical line Here we go. Waheyheyheyahahahahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Jul.31.2013
12:51PM EDT 
vertical line Sorrow
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.01.2013
11:54AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line If a man goes begging for food and is given meat to eat then eats it ..
He will continue creating further karmic reactions
If a Buddha goes begging for food and is given meat to eat then eats it ..
he will not create any further karmic reactions

Why? Two people do exactly the same actions with different outcomes?

If you want to know your present then look at your past for that is what your present is based upon.
If you want to know your future then look at your present for that is what your future is based upon.

When tired, sleep: When hungry, eat ... not far from Buddha ... hahahaha
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.01.2013
12:03PM EDT 
vertical line I'm tired.
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Aug.01.2013
12:08PM EDT 
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vertical line It's late somewhere.
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Aug.01.2013
12:12PM EDT 
vertical line No trace.
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Aug.01.2013
01:40PM EDT 
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vertical line Invitation Imagination Invisibility
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Aug.01.2013
01:44PM EDT 
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vertical line No sense to it.
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Aug.01.2013
02:05PM EDT 
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vertical line It's the course of a shooting star. One moment invited, one moment invisible, one moment imagining.
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Aug.01.2013
02:23PM EDT 
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.01.2013
07:15PM EDT 
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Quote: "If a man goes begging for food and is given meat to eat then eats it ..
He will continue creating further karmic reactions
If a Buddha goes begging for food and is given meat to eat then eats it ..
he will not create any further karmic reactions

Why? Two people do exactly the same actions with different outcomes?

If you want to know your present then look at your past for that is what your present is based upon.
If you want to know your future then look at your present for that is what your future is based upon.

When tired, sleep: When hungry, eat ... not far from Buddha ... hahahaha
"
.........

Sorry in advance .

Perhaps is not the food , perhaps is the desire of having the food , the emotion of having eating the food , the emotion of feeling hungry , the will to eat , the fear of no having food .......thats is the cause of existence , suffering or joy . Buddhism is a process to discover own emotion , accepting it towards freedom from it naturally .....

Buddhism is a natural separation from original nature being in nothingness from pollutant being having emotion ...is only present moment never past as time is never exist in concept of Buddhism .

Lets debate for my own learning process .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.02.2013
08:53AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Sorry in advance .



Thks CSEe

"
.........

Sorry in advance

You have learned your lessons well.
However, you missed something.
Those who spoke those words before were speaking from the side of experience of Buddha Nature.
Your words are the same words but they are spoken from this delusion.
And thus, the words are deluded.

It is too bad that you are so full of yourself that you can not see this for yourself.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.03.2013
03:34AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " Sorry in advance
You have learned your lessons well.
However, you missed something.
Those who spoke those words before were speaking from the side of experience of Buddha Nature.
Your words are the same words but they are spoken from this delusion.
And thus, the words are deluded.It is too bad that you are so full of yourself that you can not see this for yourself" Un-quote

When I speak , I speak from my mind , my mind is a reflection from my emotion , my emotion is myself , myself is the cause of my existence , my existence is pollutant from my original nature , my original nature/condition is nothingness , nothingness is Buddha ........so at any moment , I with myself , for myself , by myself , going to be me ..........perhaps you seems in different path , my friend . Sorry in advance , when you speak , you speak for myself , be myself ........perhaps never in yourself but entertaining your emotion  . You are living in my life with me .....so dear sir , again sorry in advance is always your choice , your suffering .......you always have ideas of me , always created myself in you , always had an image of me as you wish .....you indeed always keep me as yours .......perhaps as your pet , perhaps as your belonging that give you the condition expressing your emotion .............

Dear Avisitor , I have a great respect for you same as any other existence , you are always my great source for learning ........when I ask you to focus on a topic and debate , you refused but we always debate but never focus on any particular issue , I really hope you could debate with me .................. you do not need to love me as I do not need know you , but Buddhism is all about learning . Learning from all source including ownselves to discover ownselves.......Buddhism is never about teaching so if our intention here is to learn why you so worry to be freind with me and share for mutual learning ........I already admitted to you so many times that you are my teacher so why are you still avoiding me ?

Dear Avisitor , Sir or Mdm or Miss or Mr .......lets debate on issue okey......

Thks CSEe 

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.03.2013
05:37AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Look around-you are!
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
06:53AM EDT 
vertical line He made the issues thus.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.03.2013
07:53AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Look around-you are!"
.........

I am not quite understand you , please explain .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from football
Aug.03.2013
09:37AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line Are you hungry?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
09:45AM EDT 
vertical line The world is his issue.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
09:47AM EDT 
vertical line [Your] M I N D is a mixed flavour lollipop.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
09:49AM EDT 
vertical line The trouble with your M I N D is its supposed abstraction from the Wurld Wade Wibs.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
09:51AM EDT 
vertical line The Chinese for apple is 'ping' - sounds a bit like 'bing' which is Chinese for illness.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.03.2013
02:11PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Are you hungry?"
.........

As human ofcause i will experience emotion like others , hungry , joy , sorrow , shock etc ........in the Buddhism concept one is in a constant process of discovering own emotions ...realizing it and further into freedom from it . So is theemotions itself that causing own existence .....

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.03.2013
02:22PM EDT 
vertical line You're famished.
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.03.2013
06:17PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Are you hungry?"
.........


As human ofcause i will experience emotion like others , hungry , joy , sorrow , shock etc ........in the Buddhism concept one is in a constant process of discovering own emotions ...realizing it and further into freedom from it . So is theemotions itself that causing own existence .....


Thks CSEe

"
.........

Hungry is not an emotion.
That is only one thing I mention that is wrong with your statement ... haha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.03.2013
10:17PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Are you hungry?"
.........


As human ofcause i will experience emotion like others , hungry , joy , sorrow , shock etc ........in the Buddhism concept one is in a constant process of discovering own emotions ...realizing it and further into freedom from it . So is theemotions itself that causing own existence .....


Thks CSEe

"
.........

Hungry is not an emotion.
That is only one thing I mention that is wrong with your statement ... haha"
.........

"
.........

Hungry is not an emotion.
That is only one thing I mention that is wrong with your statement ... haha
"
.........

To me , eventhough in common human knowledge hungry is caused by our body system still is to me is an emotion , a desire for food or a desire to fulfill others emotional needs .......perhaps you have others perception of hungry that is new to me ......

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.04.2013
07:46AM EDT 
vertical line Homo Correctus eats supernova for breakfast - Deb8.
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.04.2013
06:56PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

To me , eventhough in common human knowledge hungry is caused by our body system still is to me is an emotion , a desire for food or a desire to fulfill others emotional needs .......perhaps you have others perception of hungry that is new to me ......


Thks CSEe

"
.........

Now you are changing definitions of words to suit your own needs.
Then how would it be to debate such a master of words???
.... hahahaha
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.05.2013
01:28AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Look around-you are!"
.........


I am not quite understand you , please explain .


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

Look around, Pay attention, Be aware etc.

I am you, you are me, cooperate with one another.

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.05.2013
03:22AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Quote: "Look around-you are!"
.........


I am not quite understand you , please explain .


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

Look around, Pay attention, Be aware etc.

I am you, you are me, cooperate with one another.

"
.........

"
.........

Look around, Pay attention, Be aware etc.

I am you, you are me, cooperate with one another.

"
.........

If you had realize this .......there is no "one another".....

.........realization of all existence is same and equal , as ONE with no distinction to two ...is not by knowledge , is by progressing into a lengthly process known to me as Budhism . Dear Sir , is easy to be "some one" associated to "buddhism concept" ...but Buddhism is to discover the emotion to be some one not to acheive being someone .........yourself is yourself , myself is myself .we are never related but are always same and equal..........you are Buddha , Me is Buddha , we are ONE , SAME and EQUAL ................Buddhism is a process you separated from yourself naturally , Me separated from myself naturally .....so I agree with your views to look around , pay attention , beware .......and LEARN TO DISCOVER OWNSELF .

I hope you stay and debate more with me .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.05.2013
03:28AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

To me , eventhough in common human knowledge hungry is caused by our body system still is to me is an emotion , a desire for food or a desire to fulfill others emotional needs .......perhaps you have others perception of hungry that is new to me ......


Thks CSEe

"
.........

Now you are changing definitions of words to suit your own needs.
Then how would it be to debate such a master of words???
.... hahahaha
"
.........

"
.........

Now you are changing definitions of words to suit your own needs.
Then how would it be to debate such a master of words???
.... hahahaha"
.........

Dear sir , what my words you seek more explanation ? Sometime I have reason to believe you trying to find reasons to against me , never interested to challenge my views ....sorry in advance , Dear Avisitor , Buddhism to me is all about learning from ownselve or others .....is my only purpose to learn here not to against you in any way ...so why cant you see this ?

Thks CSEe 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.05.2013
08:21AM EDT 
vertical line Forgive me O People of the ZenGuide, I have failed you.
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.05.2013
10:50AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear sir , what my words you seek more explanation ? Sometime I have reason to believe you trying to find reasons to against me , never interested to challenge my views ....sorry in advance , Dear Avisitor , Buddhism to me is all about learning from ownselve or others .....is my only purpose to learn here not to against you in any way ...so why cant you see this ?


Thks CSEe 

"
.........

What don't you understand?
You have belief of your Buddhism beyond any others.
You wish to debate others and yet, you use words in ways that you decide the way they mean.
What chance do I have to discuss any Buddhism with you when you hold all the cards??

I never debate with you cause I have known many like you.
Deep in your own belief and everything set up so you can never be wrong.
What debate can there be if you can't see another's view point??
No, I only point toward the truth that was passed on from Buddha.
The lessons are clear to me ... as they are clear to any who wish to learn.
Please have a good life. And, give your belief of Buddhism a rest to learn what others think first before you judge.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.05.2013
12:02PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , thanks for reply . You said I quote "What don't you understand?
You have belief of your Buddhism beyond any others.
You wish to debate others and yet, you use words in ways that you decide the way they mean.
What chance do I have to discuss any Buddhism with you when you hold all the cards?? Un-quote

Dear sir , so far there is only two non-English words I use in any Buddhism website and that are " Buddha & Buddhism" .....I never use any others terminology or words that is commonly used in Buddhism forum . So if you wish my explaination on these two words again , I am ready to explain to you ...but please let me know what words that I use is of different meaning from yours .........

Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " I never debate with you cause I have known many like you.
Deep in your own belief and everything set up so you can never be wrong.
What debate can there be if you can't see another's view point??' Un-quote

Is there any people like me out there ? If there is please help me let them know my email address , I wish to debate with someone that want to debate just like me ........

So far in any conversation or debate or discussion I had reply all , all question even by many well known "teacher" or monk .......this never indicate that I am right or others is wrong ...this to me means that I am learning from them ......

Dear Avisitor , do you undersand what debate means ? Debate to me is explaination of own understanding , challenging own understanding by discussion with others ........not a competition to determine who win or who lost ............in debate both side is always winning / learning from each others ....Dear Sir , sorry in advance perhaps many people had a different intention while debating , perhaps they intended to influence others in agreeing with them ...but sir NOT ME . I never have any intention to find agreement in debating infact I prefer dis-agreement as I could learn more ....


Dear sir , you said I quote " No, I only point toward the truth that was passed on from Buddha." un-quote

No sir , in knowledge I cant find any reason to agree with you ...in realization I am learning from your emotion .

Dear sir , in my current understanding Buddhism is all about ownselves ...is you . Is you to live your life , is you to choose your journey , is you to free yourself .......seems to me you choose to live in other person life ...you seems more focusing on a dead man than yourselves .....Dear Sir , in my current understanding , there is NO REFERRAL of Buddhism nor any teaching , books , text EVEN direct words from Siddharta himselves OR EVEN HIS ACTUAL PRACTICES .......as each of existence is on own journey NEVER related .

I hoping to debate with you on this topic if you interested ........


You said , I quote " The lessons are clear to me ... as they are clear to any who wish to learn.
Please have a good life. And, give your belief of Buddhism a rest to learn what others think first before you judge." un-quote

Perhaps you seems have desire to influence me to agree with you and perhaps you feel you had fail , perhaps because of that you ignoring me ..perhaps is your intention to defend your views , and had a beliefs that cant change ........Dear Avisitor , I am sincerely hope to debate with you on any Buddhism topic as you wish ........in simple English languange without any use of terminology ... please consider !!!!!

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.05.2013
12:28PM EDT 
vertical line There's nobody out there. I've been defeated.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.05.2013
12:32PM EDT 
vertical line O People of the ZenGuide, I come to bury Hir, not praise Hir.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.05.2013
12:37PM EDT 
vertical line Jevus.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.05.2013
12:44PM EDT 
vertical line Mortal: What is a million years like to you?

God: Like one second.

Mortal: What is a million dollars like to you?

God: Like one penny.

Mortal: Can I have a penny?

God: Just a second.
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.05.2013
06:17PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Dear Avisitor , I am sincerely hope to debate with you on any Buddhism topic as you wish ........in simple English languange without any use of terminology ... please consider !!!!!


Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.05.2013
10:04PM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , by common sense you can debate with me by using only simple English words without any involvement of terminology , you can just base on your understanding to discuss it or debate with me .

The reason I decline to involve any terminology such as " karma , samsara " is because firstly I do not understand it , secondly many people have different meaning of it so if you use such words in our debate , we will have a endless discussion without exploring own understanding ...we are just discussing of something which is a third party ........

Dear Avisitor , Buddhism to me is a concept intruduced to mankind by Siddharta and is a simple yet complete explaination of all existence ......the concept is very simple and very easy to understand but is human ultimate challenge to realize it and to accept it ........Buddhism is a path back to the original nature of all existence not just human ......so being human , have desire to continue being human is human ultimate desire ....and Buddhism is a natural process that human realize this and progressing towards freedom from it naturally .......is very-very difficult for any human or living ............so Dear Avisitor , is human culture to be ego , to be proud , to defend himself and I had realized it many-many years ago ...now I am free of it . I am now realized I am in a natural process discovering / accepting myself .....and by being ego I am just travelling in longer journey into my self realization so please dont waste anymore times argueing on something which is boring ...lets learn from each other ...............I always respect you and from your knowledge you seems a great source of learning for me .

So please let go ......

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
12:53AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Metanoia - The mind with itself and so free from itself. Free from clutching at themselves the hands can handle; free from looking after themselves the eyes can see; free from trying to understand itself thought can think. In such feeling, seeing, and thinking life requires no future to complete itself nor explanation to justify itself. In this moment it is finished.

Is "metanoia" the equivalent to satori or kensho?
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Aug.06.2013
12:57AM EDT 
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vertical line Syrs question...
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Aug.06.2013
01:05AM EDT 
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vertical line I'm thinking kensho...
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
01:15AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I believe it is kensho.
From there satori can be founded.
When satori is founded the Way opens up.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
02:08AM EDT 
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Perhaps believing "knowledge" , attachment on "knowledge" is further created emotions ...perhaps Buddhism concept , learning is a NATURAL PROCESS as reflection of being awaken , NOT resulted from desire .

As human any desire / emotion ' TO DO" or "WISHING TO " is a cause of suffering in a longer journey in self realization / liberation from self .

Buddhism is a NATURAL PROCESS not a creation of one emotion ........

Thks CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
03:55AM EDT 
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vertical line Perhaps if I had a social life, a romantic life, a livelihood, an education, and a purpose in life...better health, greater abundance, more energy, and less worry...maybe if I renounced my life and relinquished my head, gave up fear and returned to love, realized god and practiced service...Who knows?
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
04:20AM EDT 
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vertical line I'm out of business.

Peace
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
04:50AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Perhaps if I had a social life, a romantic life, a livelihood, an education, and a purpose in life...better health, greater abundance, more energy, and less worry...maybe if I renounced my life and relinquished my head, gave up fear and returned to love, realized god and practiced service...Who knows?"
.........

OR....

Perhaps as I live on , awake to aware I live a life , understand / realize what is social life , emotion being romantic , living in a life , without imagine what should a life be or have a purpose in life , without acceptance on what is heath compare to sickness but realizing heath & sick ,........is Buddhism .

Perhaps if not have a desire to " renounced" life but just living awaken in life and progressing it ...let it go ...let it flow into greater realization without create any distinction or knowledge or attachement on what is love or hate ...evil or good...I will realize myself .

Just perhaps ...who's knows ?

Is a great challenge to accept Buddhism but is suffering to live with it and is suffering to against own will .............

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
05:18AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Thanks
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
06:02AM EDT 
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Quote: "Thanks"
.........

Nothing I had offer you except to my ownself ....hope you could share your views and debate with me for my learning lesson .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2013
06:37AM EDT 
vertical line Let this difficulty be a lesson to you - you are not going to win.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
07:02AM EDT 
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Quote: "Let this difficulty be a lesson to you - you are not going to win. "
.........

Dear sir , in my current understanding of Buddhism ,everything or anything is lesson to me and I am always winning ....what can you lose if you always provided with  lesson to learn ? Buddhism is not gaining knowledge to keep but to realize ownselves and free from it ............

In Buddhism every action or re-action by ownselves or others regardless their nature or background or lifelihood , regardless whether living or non-living , regardless Dalai Lama or Osama is always same and equally teaching us ....showing us factor for realization and is always ourselves to realize it .

In Buddhism as what I currently realize it , nothing is hurting me except myself , nothing is causing suffering to me except ownselves .............nothing is joyful except ownselves .............so dear sir I am always winning because I am here to learn never to teach so regardless what you say I will learn from you...... so thats "winning" my friend .........................

Show me otherwise and debate okey ?

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2013
07:18AM EDT 
vertical line I'm not your friend.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
09:46AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "I'm not your friend. "
......... sorry very sorry thks CSEe
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
09:52AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line What is it?
Find it.

Who am I?
I am.

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.06.2013
10:04AM EDT 
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vertical line My body is the care giver, my spirit is the decision maker.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2013
10:19AM EDT 
vertical line I show me otherwise. Thanks.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2013
11:11AM EDT 
vertical line For you, a thousand times over.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
12:16PM EDT 
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Quote: "What is it?
Find it.

Who am I?
I am.

"
.........

What is it ?

In human culture which knowledge is use as basis , is common sense to find what we wish to find out ......but Buddhism is a NATURAL process not to find the answer to fulfill our desire to know but is a natural process to realize our desire to know ...is to explore our emotion on knowledge , is to realize our greed to hold on what we know , is to accept our emotion , our wish , our hopes , our ego etc ..........

Who am I ?

In human culture , human had created knowledge and hold on to the knowledge that they gain ...from the knowledge , from their practices , from their culture they created faith / beliefs and with their will they force themselves into creating themselves .......and this is create a sense of imaginative truth of the nature on themselves and they will created faith of themselves .......leading to believing " WHO" they are ....

In my current understanding , Buddhism is a natural process leading to discovering ' WHAT we are" not " WHO are we "......in Buddhism , we will discover ourselves , and nothingness .........both is not known as "who" but is closer to be known as "what" .....

Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
12:22PM EDT 
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Quote: "My body is the care giver, my spirit is the decision maker. "
.........

I am not trying to against whatever you said but merely challenging my own understanding ........

In my current understanding , as we progress into greater realization on ownselves , we will realize nothing owned by us nor body or even life ...........spirit perhaps is mind is the reflection of the pollutant energy that attached to notrhingness and caused our existence ...........in Buddhism the body ,is just another existence in its own Buddhism that never connected to us ..........

I hope you could debate with me for my better understanding .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.06.2013
01:13PM EDT 
vertical line Your current understanding is the same as it ever was, apparently.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
08:18PM EDT 
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Quote: "Your current understanding is the same as it ever was, apparently."
.........

Frankly I never realized it or keep record of it , to me Buddhism is NOW , present , living in NOW , awaken in present moment . Thinking of the past or imagining the future is resulted from mind which is the reflection of emotion - a polluted energy in action .

is great challenge for me to accept these Buddhism concept but realizing it sometimes do help . So Dear Sir , in Buddhism each of us are living in our journey into emptiness , this journey is include life / death / survival ......you have your own journey , I have mine and both of us just like traveler going to same destination but different mode of transport , you perhaps driving a car as I perhaps crawling ......we meet in coffee shop on our way and talk about our journey . So please dont waste your efford going back the road I has passed ..........as I already pass it .

Please focus on NOW not living in my past ...thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.06.2013
09:02PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line This little passage is here in the stories section.
Check it out!!

If you want to know the past,
to know what has caused you,
look at yourself in the present,
for that is the past's effect.

If you want to know your future,
look at yourself in the present,
for that is the cause of the future.

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.06.2013
09:20PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "This little passage is here in the stories section.
Check it out!!

If you want to know the past,
to know what has caused you,
look at yourself in the present,
for that is the past's effect.

If you want to know your future,
look at yourself in the present,
for that is the cause of the future.

"
.........

Past is always NOW , Future is always NOW in making ...so in Buddhism is only NOW as living in realization of NOW is awakening .......living in the past based on own knowledge / experiences is human culture ...living in imagination of future is human desire , human pollutants .......thats my current understanding .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
05:54AM EDT 
vertical line Dear Sir,

Please drop the projection.

And thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding Buddhism and your current understanding.

However, it would appear that your current understanding of "debate" is to continually restate your opinions without being clear on the point to be debated and in the absence of the necessary proofs/evidence, [required in any bona fide debate]. Rather, you continually assert and reassert those opinions in a fight, which is essentially a fight against yourself ['debate' - from Latin via Old French: "dis" to express reversal) + battere "to fight".] So, dear Sir, although I am not living in Buddhism, you have manifest your intention to wilfully misunderstand living in NOW, and whatever your words say, you are clearly incapable of being shown otherwise.

Yours truly,

Joe Chip
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
07:28AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Dear Sir,

Please drop the projection.

And thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding Buddhism and your current understanding.

However, it would appear that your current understanding of "debate" is to continually restate your opinions without being clear on the point to be debated and in the absence of the necessary proofs/evidence, [required in any bona fide debate]. Rather, you continually assert and reassert those opinions in a fight, which is essentially a fight against yourself ['debate' - from Latin via Old French: "dis" to express reversal) + battere "to fight".] So, dear Sir, although I am not living in Buddhism, you have manifest your intention to wilfully misunderstand living in NOW, and whatever your words say, you are clearly incapable of being shown otherwise.

Yours truly,

Joe Chip
"
.........

Dear Sir , I am not here to educate people nor myself , I am here to debate -to challenge my current understanding and hoping to debate any topic with anyone here .........If you read my posting I always interested to debate many topic here but so far none of you guys interested .

Dear sir , you want proof ? of what ? Buddhism ? ......Dear sir , to me Buddhism is not to gain knowledge , or to gain something but is a natural process of all living or non-living towards emptiness .......what proof you need ? You are the proof , I am the proof , the dog in the street are the proof , the rusty metal are the proof , the rotting meat are the proof ......the rubbish outside your house is the proof...the crying baby is the proof.....all are in Buddhism , is you to realize it ....and if you interested lets debate ....

You said you are not living in Buddhism  , to me you are in Buddhism whether you choose to be or not ...no one and nothing can avoid buddhism..lets debate this topic if you interested ......Dear sir , I am here to learn and debating to me is the best option so you are welcome to debate any topic with me as any topic regardless sport / sex / politics is part of buddhism process and all is a great lesson to be learn...so lets debate shall we ...

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
07:44AM EDT 
vertical line Make it a good one, because I think this is for ever.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
07:45AM EDT 
vertical line Read my lips: No Buddhism. Whether you like it or not.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
07:47AM EDT 
vertical line Let's debate: I'm not interested in this conversation.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line ^
^
^
Look up here: there's a part-post out of Mind.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
07:51AM EDT 
vertical line Or join a debating society.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
08:09AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Joe Chip , I have reason to believe you seems angry of me ....if that is the case , I am sorry . I truly do not have any intention to make you angry ........

You said no Buddhism , I say all is Buddhism so if you interested , you give your reason , I give mine ...that is debating ...lets explore each other reason .....

many in Buddhism website seems angry of me and I have reason to believe because I always challenging their views ......perhaps many are trying to find someone to agree with them .....to me , I never wish to find agreement here and always prefer dis-agreement . I like other with different views so that I could explore their views and learn .....if other agree with me well normally it will be a stop .....

lets share each other reason , lets challenge each other view ..this is a very healthy way and perhaps the best way to learn in internet .....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:24AM EDT 
vertical line You flatter yourself.

How to keep cool in hot weather: drop the projection.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:26AM EDT 
vertical line I agree. You're on a debatable journey.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
08:37AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "You flatter yourself.

How to keep cool in hot weather: drop the projection.
"
.........

Lets forget about me or you ...just focus on issue if you interested .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
08:38AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I agree. You're on a debatable journey. "
.........

All journey is debatable .........thats learning .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:41AM EDT 
vertical line So. Farewell
Then
CSEe

Yes, Current Understanding

That was
Your most famous
Programme

Ironically

You want
to debate
journey
with
journey



Contrary to your earlier misrepresentation [again], I don't want proof. A proof or evidence is a requirement of bona fide debate. No proof. No debate. Only unsubstantiated opinion.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
08:51AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "So. Farewell
Then
CSEe

Yes, Current Understanding

That was
Your most famous
Programme

Ironically

You want
to debate
journey
with
journey



Contrary to your earlier misrepresentation [again], I don't want proof. A proof or evidence is a requirement of bona fide debate. No proof. No debate. Only unsubstantiated opinion.
"
.........

perhaps you could let me know what kind of " bona fide" proof you need for debate .......to me , your existence , your emotion , my emotion , the feeling that you have is great enough to  engage on a debate in view of Buddhism concept , perhaps you still need my further explaination which I am ready to further explain if requested .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:53AM EDT 
vertical line I don't need bona fide proof for debate.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:54AM EDT 
vertical line It's bona fide debate that needs the proof.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
08:56AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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perhaps is easier if you say you are not interested to debate with me .....I respect your decision .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
08:57AM EDT 
vertical line Perhaps it would be easier for you if you read the posts.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
09:00AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Perhaps it would be easier for you if you read the posts."
.........

What post you need me to read ? I had invite you to focus on a few topic to debate but apparently you are not interested ........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
09:03AM EDT 
vertical line For example: "a proof or evidence is a requirement of bona fide debate" is misrepresented by you as "perhaps you could let me know what kind of " bona fide" proof you need for debate. That kind of thing.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
09:04AM EDT 
vertical line Anyway, I'm thinking of writing: "Head on Crashes for Dummies." But it would probably be cheaper to get a whole new head. Ciao!
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
12:30PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "For example: "a proof or evidence is a requirement of bona fide debate" is misrepresented by you as "perhaps you could let me know what kind of " bona fide" proof you need for debate. That kind of thing. "
.........

Sorry I am kind of lost here , perhaps if you referring to knowledge ...YES we need proof for a debate ...but here we are debating Buddhism , we are debating YOU and ME , YOURSELF and MYSELF ......therefore your existence , my existence is the proof ...

Sorry if  my writing confuse you .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:13PM EDT 
vertical line Yes, you're kind of lost on your debatable journey. No, I'm not referring to knowledge. I'm referring to your misrepresentation[s]. So it would appear that your writing confuses yourself.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:22PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Yes, you're kind of lost on your debatable journey. No, I'm not referring to knowledge. I'm referring to your misrepresentation[s]. So it would appear that your writing confuses yourself. "
.........

I cant say I understand you completely , I am not but perhaps that is not important as i am interested to debate Buddhism topic with you but seems to me you prefer others subject which I think is pity to argue ............

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:22PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Yes, you're kind of lost on your debatable journey. No, I'm not referring to knowledge. I'm referring to your misrepresentation[s]. So it would appear that your writing confuses yourself. "
.........
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:23PM EDT 
vertical line I don't know whether you noticed, but I'm not debating Buddhism.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:24PM EDT 
vertical line What are you not debating?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:29PM EDT 
vertical line I only came in for a coffee-break. What's to debate?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:29PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I don't know whether you noticed, but I'm not debating Buddhism. "
.........

Dear Joe Chip , Buddhism is everything is included whatever we said but I wish to debate on a particular topic not just clearing our mis-comunication here .......

I hope you understand me as I am quite difficult understand you .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:30PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "What are you not debating?"
.........

Lets debate on what is Buddhism ................what is Buddhism to you ?

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:31PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I only came in for a coffee-break. What's to debate?"
.........

you are not here to discover / learn ? Sharing views ?......

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:32PM EDT 
vertical line Budhism is a conceptual grid. What's that to you?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:37PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Budhism is a conceptual grid. What's that to you?"
.........

Perhaps you could explain more ?........

as for me Buddhism is a natural process of all existence -living or non-living releasing its polluted energy that causing their existence , towards freedom of it , be emptiness back into nothingness ..............is ME separating from MYself .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:38PM EDT 
vertical line Ok. You don't want to know.

The topic is Mind.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:40PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Ok. You don't want to know.

The topic is Mind.
"


.........

I want to know what is your reason ...mind to me is reflection / collection of self , self is all emotions ...mind reflect the self and is respresent condition that we in , mind is ourselves .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.07.2013
01:42PM EDT 
vertical line Look, I'm sorry about your polluted energy, I really am but you'll just have to cyber-dump it somewhere else. I have to go - I've got work to do.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
01:44PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Look, I'm sorry about your polluted energy, I really am but you'll just have to cyber-dump it somewhere else. I have to go - I've got work to do. "
.........

Okey , is already 1 am in Malaysia ........hope you could debate with me some other time on this topic .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.07.2013
03:29PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line The path is one,
The moment is now,
Reality as it is,
Things as they are &
That which is always.

Om Aum
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.07.2013
07:17PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "The path is one,
The moment is now,
Reality as it is,
Things as they are &
That which is always.

Om Aum
"
.........

Perhaps you could write more , explain further and using your own words describing your own understanding of these words ........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.07.2013
09:03PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Quote: "Budhism is a conceptual grid. What's that to you?"
.........


Perhaps you could explain more ?........


as for me Buddhism is a natural process of all existence -living or non-living releasing its polluted energy that causing their existence , towards freedom of it , be emptiness back into nothingness ..............is ME separating from MYself .


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

Buddhism isn't a natural process. It is a choice.
It must be made and effort put in to it.
Otherwise, things left alone will fall apart.

Buddhism is a choice that you made a long time ago.
With all that you've read and accumulated, you have formed your own opinion and developed your own ideas about Buddhism.
But, that isn't Buddhism at all.
You've killed the Buddha and his teachings.

There is no separating you from yourself.
Do you know how ludicrous that sounds??
Buddhism uses expedient means ... you are deluded and uses that delusion to aide you out of your delusion.
However, you have just created your own version of Buddhism.
A natural process?? Then if it is a natural process then you wouldn't have to do anything to understand, to realize, to awaken.

.... hahahaha.
Sorry, you don't understand my posts. If you did then you might at least open your mind to the possibilities.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
03:26AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , thanks for your reply , you said ,I quote " Buddhism isn't a natural process. It is a choice.It must be made and effort put in to it.
Otherwise, things left alone will fall apart." Un-quote

I cant find any reason to agree with you now as the way I realize it ,  is never my choice to be born , is never my choice to have desire of love , ego , greed , is never my choice to experience my own emotion on survival , sickness or death . Is never a choice for any animal / plant / viruses to experience birth , sickness , death , is never a choice for a metal to rust , a wood to rot .......is all natural process and Buddhism is that process whether we choose or not , it happens .........in human , Buddhism is a natural process  that we will realize our emotions , accepting it and as we progress into greater understanding , will will free from it NOT by our choice or wish or intention or desire or emotion BUT is the condition we in .............I could explain further but for now I think I will stop it here and if you interested ......lets debate this further my friend .......

You said , I quote " Buddhism is a choice that you made a long time ago.
With all that you've read and accumulated, you have formed your own opinion and developed your own ideas about Buddhism.
But, that isn't Buddhism at all.
You've killed the Buddha and his teachings." Un-quote

I found realization on Siddharta two words " Awake & Emptiness" and from these two words .....I realized all answer and question ....I never read much Buddhism text as I found it too boring ,too hard to understand with all the terminology........I have no ideas on Buddhism just realization based on my experience and understanding .........to me , my realization on Siddharta's two words " awake & Emptiness" fit in very well of my realization on myself and for that I CURRENTLY have all the reason to believe
that is Buddhism ...I hope we could debate more on your understanding of Buddhism ......

Dear Sir , how could I kill " The Buddha" or " his teaching" if Buddha is nothingness ?...in my current understanding of Buddhism , Buddha is the original nature / condition of all existence ...is you , is me , is your computer , is my table , is your shoes , is my shirts .......and what is the " teaching" ? ......To me , Siddharta's words is just a source of learning same as Osama action , same as your writing here , same as the bird on the tree ............in Buddhism , all is a great source of learning and all is same and equal .....


You said , I quote " There is no separating you from yourself.
Do you know how ludicrous that sounds??
Buddhism uses expedient means ... you are deluded and uses that delusion to aide you out of your delusion.
However, you have just created your own version of Buddhism.
A natural process?? Then if it is a natural process then you wouldn't have to do anything to understand, to realize, to awaken." Un-quote

In my current understanding of Buddhism , YOU are nothingness - the original condition . YOURSELF is all your emotions such as desire / fear / love / ego / greed etc ..this is the energy causing yourself to exist and the mind is the reflection of all these emotion and causing joy & suffering is part of emotion that you experience ...
so Buddhism is a natural process for all existence back into original condition of nothingness ............so as you live your life regardless what is your action or re-action , all will become a lesson for you to discover yourself and as you progress into many circle of birth / survival / death ...you will experience more and more of your own emotion and as you travel into many life/death circle , your emotion will be reduced and to a point you will be free of all emotion - this condition of almost freedom from "self" to me is enlighternment and is closer to emptiness ........as you progress from enlighternment , you will be emptiness and back into nothingness without yourself .....you will be free from yourself ......this process to my realization is Buddhism .

Seem to me human due to their ego and attachment on knowledge had fail to awaken to this realization and take longer / more suffering journey into self realization ......Dear Avisitor , to me in Buddhism nothing is right or wrong , no true or false , no good or bad in Buddhism ...is just like if you from New York and want to go to Houston , is your choice to take a direct flight or you could always take a flight from New York , to India , to Australia , to Malaysia , to Indonesia , to Hong Kong , to Rusia and back to Houston ...that is never wrong , that just your choice ...as you need to learn and that is your learning process.....

You said , I quote " .... hahahaha.
Sorry, you don't understand my posts. If you did then you might at least open your mind to the possibilities." Un-quote

Perhaps you could learn more by reading your own writing ........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
06:34AM EDT 
vertical line Ordure! Ordure!
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
06:42AM EDT 
vertical line I'm gonna sit right down and write myself a letter
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
10:28AM EDT 
vertical line When The Ship Come In
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
11:23AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

I cant find any reason to agree with you now as the way I realize it ,  is never my choice to be born , is never my choice to have desire of love , ego , greed , is never my choice to experience my own emotion on survival , sickness or death . Is never a choice for any animal / plant / viruses to experience birth , sickness , death , is never a choice for a metal to rust , a wood to rot .......is all natural process and Buddhism is that process whether we choose or not , it happens .........in human , Buddhism is a natural process  that we will realize our emotions , accepting it and as we progress into greater understanding , will will free from it NOT by our choice or wish or intention or desire or emotion BUT is the condition we in .............I could explain further but for now I think I will stop it here and if you interested ......lets debate this further my friend .......




Buddhism is a choice. The other things like bodily functions are things under your control and therefore, your choice too.
Buddhism is not a natural process.
If it were then you would not have to do anything and you would become enlightened and awaken from your delusion.
You haven't awakened. You are so deluded that you believe that you learn two words and you know all about Buddhism that you can make your own definitions.
How could there ever be a debate when you can't even open your mind to understand that you are deluded and cling to your delusions which keep you suffering and end up in the cycle of rebirth and death.




I found realization on Siddharta two words " Awake & Emptiness" and from these two words .....I realized all answer and question ....I never read much Buddhism text as I found it too boring ,too hard to understand with all the terminology........I have no ideas on Buddhism just realization based on my experience and understanding .........to me , my realization on Siddharta's two words " awake & Emptiness" fit in very well of my realization on myself and for that I CURRENTLY have all the reason to believe
that is Buddhism ...I hope we could debate more on your understanding of Buddhism ......



You learned two words spoken by the Buddha and think that you have grasped his teachings??
Really??
You even admit that you haven't read much about Buddhism.
How do you expect to debate when you know next to nothing about his teachings??
You keep putting yourself on top and believe your own words beyond reason. That is your delusion.
You will suffer the rest of this life and into the next.
All you ever do is restate your beliefs and ignore anyone's plea for you to educate yourself in Buddhism by actually going to temple and learn from a teacher.
No, you are better than Buddha himself cause everyone is dirt beneath your feet. Delusion!!!



Dear Sir , how could I kill " The Buddha" or " his teaching" if Buddha is nothingness ?...in my current understanding of Buddhism , Buddha is the original nature / condition of all existence ...is you , is me , is your computer , is my table , is your shoes , is my shirts .......and what is the " teaching" ? ......To me , Siddharta's words is just a source of learning same as Osama action , same as your writing here , same as the bird on the tree ............in Buddhism , all is a great source of learning and all is same and equal .....



You said , I quote " There is no separating you from yourself.
Do you know how ludicrous that sounds??
Buddhism uses expedient means ... you are deluded and uses that delusion to aide you out of your delusion.
However, you have just created your own version of Buddhism.
A natural process?? Then if it is a natural process then you wouldn't have to do anything to understand, to realize, to awaken." Un-quote



You kill the Buddha by not learning from his teaching but by believing only in your own words which came out of two words ... Awaken and emptiness.
Neither have you truly realize through experience. Conceptualization, thoughts, ... these things will keep you wrapped in delusion and never let you go!!
Buddha is original nature?? What does that actually mean?? You think your original nature is emptiness?? Prove it!!!
Can you begin to see your own delusion??
No, of course not!! You continue to defend your beliefs beyond all reason. That is part of the delusion you have created for yourself.



In my current understanding of Buddhism , YOU are nothingness - the original condition . YOURSELF is all your emotions such as desire / fear / love / ego / greed etc ..this is the energy causing yourself to exist and the mind is the reflection of all these emotion and causing joy & suffering is part of emotion that you experience ...
so Buddhism is a natural process for all existence back into original condition of nothingness ............so as you live your life regardless what is your action or re-action , all will become a lesson for you to discover yourself and as you progress into many circle of birth / survival / death ...you will experience more and more of your own emotion and as you travel into many life/death circle , your emotion will be reduced and to a point you will be free of all emotion - this condition of almost freedom from "self" to me is enlighternment and is closer to emptiness ........as you progress from enlighternment , you will be emptiness and back into nothingness without yourself .....you will be free from yourself ......this process to my realization is Buddhism .


Seem to me human due to their ego and attachment on knowledge had fail to awaken to this realization and take longer / more suffering journey into self realization ......Dear Avisitor , to me in Buddhism nothing is right or wrong , no true or false , no good or bad in Buddhism ...is just like if you from New York and want to go to Houston , is your choice to take a direct flight or you could always take a flight from New York , to India , to Australia , to Malaysia , to Indonesia , to Hong Kong , to Rusia and back to Houston ...that is never wrong , that just your choice ...as you need to learn and that is your learning process.....



You said , I quote " .... hahahaha.
Sorry, you don't understand my posts. If you did then you might at least open your mind to the possibilities." Un-quote


Perhaps you could learn more by reading your own writing ........


Thks


CSEe

"
.........

Doubtful you will ever learn from anyone. Debate or not. Cause you only use debate to build up your belief and defend it so that nothing can ever break the walls of your delusion.
It will take you many life times before you come closer to the truth of original nature.
Have a good life!!! .... hahahahaha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
11:37AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " Doubtful you will ever learn from anyone. Debate or not. Cause you only use debate to build up your belief and defend it so that nothing can ever break the walls of your delusion.
It will take you many life times before you come closer to the truth of original nature.
Have a good life!!! .... hahahahaha" Un-quote

Sorry in advance , is surprising to me that you keep on acuse me of many thing , you acuse me as what you think of me , you imagine me as you wish ...and for that I hope you realize that perhaps is you whom you see ........I am here to learn and by debating I had learn alot and you keep on avoiding debating with me base on topic ......I had answered all your question , reply every single of your comment , giving my view but sadly you not only avoiding debating with me base on the topic but you acuse me as you wish ....................

Dear Avisitor , you are welcome to debate with me in private via my email adress at fomains@gmail.com ........................

Dear Avisitor , I have reason to believe you want me to follow you , agree in whatever you say , perhaps this will makes you feel proud / ego or nice ...well not me , I am not here to seek agreement and prefer dis-agreement , I never wish to influence anyone to agree with me but just trying to learn from others......... 

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
11:39AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , what is Buddhism to you ?......lets focus on this topic and debate ..

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
11:45AM EDT 
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Dear Avisitor , I do not wish to argue with you on any pity matters . Sincerely I respect you as teacher to me so lets start sharing views / debate ...what is Buddhism to you ?

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
12:13PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor , I have reason to believe you want me to follow you , agree in whatever you say , perhaps this will makes you feel proud / ego or nice ...well not me , I am not here to seek agreement and prefer dis-agreement , I never wish to influence anyone to agree with me but just trying to learn from others......... 

"
.........

No, keep your faith in yourself.
Believe what you can see and understand for yourself.
But, keep the open mind that you have not learned the true Buddhism.
Keep learning. Maybe in the next life you will begin the path.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
12:24PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

Dear Avisitor , I have reason to believe you want me to follow you , agree in whatever you say , perhaps this will makes you feel proud / ego or nice ...well not me , I am not here to seek agreement and prefer dis-agreement , I never wish to influence anyone to agree with me but just trying to learn from others......... 

"
.........

No, keep your faith in yourself.
Believe what you can see and understand for yourself.
But, keep the open mind that you have not learned the true Buddhism.
Keep learning. Maybe in the next life you will begin the path.
"
.........

"
.........

No, keep your faith in yourself.
Believe what you can see and understand for yourself.
But, keep the open mind that you have not learned the true Buddhism.
Keep learning. Maybe in the next life you will begin the path."
.........

Dear Avisitor , why is that you keep mis-leading my words ? I had told you many times I do not have any faith including myself , yet you keep on wanting to believe I had ............lets debate what is buddhism to you ? .........lets debte now I repeat the topic .....what is Buddhism to you ?........

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
12:35PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor , why is that you keep mis-leading my words ? I had told you many times I do not have any faith including myself , yet you keep on wanting to believe I had ............lets debate what is buddhism to you ? .........lets debte now I repeat the topic .....what is Buddhism to you ?........


Thks CSEe

"
.........

What you present is what I go by.
What you say hold no meaning cause it changes from moment to moment.
You change hungry from being a natural human function into an emotion.
Changing definition of words. And then using excuses to support your mistakes and errors.
No, no need to debate. You have already made up your mind.
The truth is there if you are willing to see.
Can you see the truth?? ... hahahaha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
12:42PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said 'What you present is what I go by.
What you say hold no meaning cause it changes from moment to moment.
You change hungry from being a natural human function into an emotion.
Changing definition of words. And then using excuses to support your mistakes and errors.
No, no need to debate. You have already made up your mind.
The truth is there if you are willing to see.
Can you see the truth?? ... hahahaha" Un-quote

Well , I have reason to believe you are finding acuses not to debate with me ..........so what is truth to you ? ......

To me currently , there is only ONE TRUTH and that is Buddhism .....Buddhism is the only process of all existence......truth is not what you see or feel or experience .....but the truth is you and yourself ................the truth is realizing you and your self ........ so if you have other reason lets debate .............

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
01:06PM EDT 
vertical line The Taliban say something similar. But it's not debate.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
01:47PM EDT 
vertical line It's ... it's ... it's accuses.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
01:56PM EDT 
vertical line I invoke the capacity to see all truths as true:

The garden of Truth breathing sweet fragrance to all parts of the alphabet.

Holy Mary Mother of God, I am the way, the truth and the life.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
02:38PM EDT 
vertical line My Lagan Love
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
06:20PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Avisitor , you said 'What you present is what I go by.
What you say hold no meaning cause it changes from moment to moment.
You change hungry from being a natural human function into an emotion.
Changing definition of words. And then using excuses to support your mistakes and errors.
No, no need to debate. You have already made up your mind.
The truth is there if you are willing to see.
Can you see the truth?? ... hahahaha" Un-quote


Well , I have reason to believe you are finding acuses not to debate with me ..........so what is truth to you ? ......


To me currently , there is only ONE TRUTH and that is Buddhism .....Buddhism is the only process of all existence......truth is not what you see or feel or experience .....but the truth is you and yourself ................the truth is realizing you and your self ........ so if you have other reason lets debate .............

"
.........

Your continued conceptualizations will wrap you up in a knot and never let you go.
You will never experience original nature through thoughts.
The realization you seek is beyond ideas and conceptions.
Debate will only continue your conceptualizations.
Round and round ... like the dog chasing its tail.
You will get no where fast.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
08:41PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said " Your continued conceptualizations will wrap you up in a knot and never let you go.You will never experience original nature through thoughts.
The realization you seek is beyond ideas and conceptions.
Debate will only continue your conceptualizations.
Round and round ... like the dog chasing its tail.
You will get no where fast." Un-quote

In my current understanding , Buddhism is all about OWNSELVE ......never others , living own life not others thats my realization of Buddhism . My realization of Buddhism is not from sitting cross leg "meditate"........every moment of my life now I realizing death / realizing life and that is me with my self never connected to you .

I never think of you , never judge your realization , whether you imagine or not , I just seek to understand more of myself by debating with you but sadly from day one you just acuse me ....all my realization to you is delution , yours is real ...all my experiences is false ..........I kind of give up trying to explain to you not to interfere my life just focusing your own and lets share by debating but until now you just keep on acuse me ......

Dear Avisitor , in my current understanding there is NO right or wrong , NO true or false , NO good or bad in Buddhism as all is a great source to learn ...let me give you an example .

If I saw a monk carrying siddharta statues on his head and walk ...I try to find reason to agree with him , if in that particular moment I cant find any reason , well I just move on ...perhaps one day if I move into greater realization I will agree with him , perhaps not ...thats my realization . I never judge him being right or wrong because I just learning from him never live in his life .

For me , any one , any thing in Buddhism concept is SAME and EQUAL . You is same and equal with me , same and equal with any animal / plant / viruses / table / dirt / rubbish etc so all is a great source of learning to discover ownselves ......Osama action killing thousand of people is same and equal as Dalai Lama words , both is a great source for me tro learn ...in Buddhism both is never right or wrong , never good or bad ...just a source for me to learn not for me to create more knowledge and suffer of the burden of the knowledge ........

Infact I have so much topic to debate with you and hope you could be more relax and share your understanding instead of judging me ...if your intention is to learn nothing that I say will be wrong as you always have option to choose and learn .....

please stop living in my life .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
09:48PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line No one said to live other's life.
No one wants you to agree, or go along.
There is absolute truth beyond you imaginings.

There is right and wrong in Buddhism.
That is why there are precepts to be held.
The eight fold path is an example of how to conduct ones life.
That is Buddhism. Not to go out and steal and rape and kill.
You have made up you own Buddhism with this nothing is right and wrong.
Please stop repeating yourself. We have heard it all before.

Buddhism ask you to go and verify the truth by using your own senses.
Not to make up your own ideas about what Buddhism is.
Face it, if someone were to beat you and rape your wife then you would know that is wrong.
Buddhism is not a natural process. It is a choice to live right and do right.
It is a way of living that provides for a good life and a life that will approach awakening, Nirvana.

I fear that you have entrenched yourself in your own beliefs that you could not be open minded to the truth and learn the true way of Buddhism.
You doubt if meditation is the way to learn about Buddhism.
So tell me why Buddha spent his time in meditation?

And there you go again in reciting your own beliefs instead of thinking about the truth.
Stop, don't bother to type it out again. We have all heard it before.
Go learn the truth. Spend your time as a beginner again and learn the right way about Buddhism.
Otherwise you will have to wait until your next lifetime to begin again ... hahaha
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
09:50PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , I just read again all your reply to me.

So far I never comment on others practices , never interested in judging others path or judge other for right or wrong ...but since you had constantly blame me , constantly acuse all my view is delution , all my understanding is false but avoiding debate with me by giving all baseless reason ....I had to give you some un-pleasent comment base on my emotion of my human culture .....dear Avisitor . is clear to me and sorry in advance as I never intended to hurt your feeling but seem to me from your own writing you are really ego , proud of your achievement and had created a faith of yourself that imposible to change and must be right ........you had a solid beliefs that cant change , you refuse to change and defended your faith ............you never interested to share with me your views or listen to mine view , you seems just want to show off with your faith ......... sincerely I hope you could forget about me as I never intended to challenge your views or to change you ...I am here just challenging my views to advance into greater understanding , you never in my life , you just a teacher passing by and I learn from you ...you never in my car travelling with me ........I really hope you could see that and stop focusing on me .

I had invited you to debate on many topic but you never interested , perhaps you just want to change me to agree with you , yes you said that is not the case but if you read again all your posting perhaps you will found yourself ........

Dear Avisitor , to me in Buddhism NOTHING is right or wrong , nothing is true or false , nothing is good or bad .....if you interested lets debate ......

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
09:56PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said "No one said to live other's life.
No one wants you to agree, or go along.
There is absolute truth beyond you imaginings.

There is right and wrong in Buddhism.
That is why there are precepts to be held.
The eight fold path is an example of how to conduct ones life.
That is Buddhism. Not to go out and steal and rape and kill.
You have made up you own Buddhism with this nothing is right and wrong.
Please stop repeating yourself. We have heard it all before." Un-quote

Well that is your knowledge , that is what you learn from books / teacher ......what about Avisitor reason to believe it , what about your own understanding ?...Yes in knowledge as what published there is 'right " and " wrong" but perhaps that carry different meaning ..I NEVER SAY SIDDHARTA is WRONG ....if you debate with me perhaps you will understand it better ........Buddhism is beyond these words and you seems attached only to these words .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
10:06PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you say I quote "Buddhism ask you to go and verify the truth by using your own senses.Not to make up your own ideas about what Buddhism is.
Face it, if someone were to beat you and rape your wife then you would know that is wrong.Buddhism is not a natural process. It is a choice to live right and do right.
It is a way of living that provides for a good life and a life that will approach awakening, Nirvana."

Good , I like this lets start debate .

If someone rape my wife or my daughter in my current self that full of pollutant / emotion , I will pull out his head and kill him with my hand ...thats is my current self ....

But......

In Buddhism concept as I currently understand ,

First : Nothing is belong to me therefore "my" wife is never owned by me .....

Second : The rapist is NOT WRONG or RIGHT , he is just learning to discover his emotion and he is teaching me to discover my emotion . He is providing me a chance to discover my love , my ego , my pride , my attachment on my wife , my ownership towards my wife and my anger / hate towards him . He is just like Dalai Lama providing me a great source to discover myself .

If you always have your knowledge as your basis of life , you will carry on living as you wish . You will travelling in longer / more suffering path ..that is never wrong as that is your learning lesson .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
10:09PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Avisitor , you said "I fear that you have entrenched yourself in your own beliefs that you could not be open minded to the truth and learn the true way of Buddhism.
You doubt if meditation is the way to learn about Buddhism.
So tell me why Buddha spent his time in meditation?

And there you go again in reciting your own beliefs instead of thinking about the truth.
Stop, don't bother to type it out again. We have all heard it before.
Go learn the truth. Spend your time as a beginner again and learn the right way about Buddhism.
Otherwise you will have to wait until your next lifetime to begin again ... hahaha" Un-quote

I not interested living in Siddharta life so I do not wish to imagine why he meditate ...or what he saw .......it just a source of learning to me .

I will stop as you perhaps get bored with me .....lets debate if you interested , I will always ready .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
06:32AM EDT 
vertical line Great. The Taliban promised something similar.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:22AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Great. The Taliban promised something similar. "
.........

Human culture clearly defined good verses bad , true verses false and right verses wrong .................but Buddhism in my current understanding is beyond human culture , beyond all knowledge ...so if you stick to knowledge , have faith in yourself , accepted what is right and accepted you  will never be wrong ...that is your learning...................

If a monk carry Siddharta statues on his head and carry it all his life ...that is NEVER right or wrong because he need to discover his emotion and that is his learning process .... if you see it , that is a great learning source for you ....

Osama kills people , that is his learning process to discover his emotions and his action in human culture is wrong and bad BUT in Buddhism concept as what I currently understand , he was NEVER right or wrong , his action never good or bad ........as he need to discover himself , his action have provide lesson for others discover theirs .......his action same as Dalai Lama giving a speech to others .....thats Buddhism , if you interested to give your comment , lets debate as I am forever learning ....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:26AM EDT 
vertical line Osama?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:30AM EDT 
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Quote: "Osama? "
.........

The one who boom tween tower killing more than 6000 lifes .....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:31AM EDT 
vertical line Oh. To discover himself?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:37AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Oh. To discover himself?"
.........

In my current understanding of Buddhism , each living are in a natural process to release its polluted energy back into the original condition of nothingness ...as human "our self " is the pollutants , Ourself is all our emotions / fear / desire / ego / love etc ..........Buddhism is a natural process that human will aware their emotions , realizing suffering , realizing the original condition of nothingness and as we progress into this path , ourselves will be decreased until we are free of all emotions ..including the will to exist ...we will be emptiness back into nothingness ...thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:38AM EDT 
vertical line Ok.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:43AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Ok."
.........

I hope you free to challenge my views as I could learn more from dis-agreement....agreement is boring .

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:48AM EDT 
vertical line I am a challenge to fundamentalism.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
08:00AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I am a challenge to fundamentalism. "
.........

In my current understanding of Buddhism ........you are always with yourself in your journey of your choice , your will in your world .........you are always alone same as me .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
08:09AM EDT 
vertical line Motorcycle Emptiness
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