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  A student asked:
-For all the different people who have come to listen to your words, please
tell us about the way you have found and know.
The Buddha answered:
-When you take things it is because of a thirst, a clinging... continue...

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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CONCEPTUALIZATION
vertical line Posted on Aug.08.2013 @ 12:08PM EDT by Avisitor
Buddha used methods of removing hindrances to awakening.
One is said to be deluded cause one doesn't see and understand one's original nature.
So, Buddha used delusion to help others become liberated from delusion.
This is called expedient means.
Given are ideas and concepts for the mind to grasp.
Like suffering and clinging and ignorance.
These thing when spoken from the sight of the stream are true.
When one conceptualizes these things and speaks them out again, they hold no water.

Our mind and our self are conceptualizations.
When one practices meditation, one is training the mind to be still and awareness to be attentive.
And, in those moments of concentration, letting go of thoughts and concepts, clarity.
The self ... the conceptualized self is let go .. it can not be made or forced to happen.
Awareness reflects all things ... the original nature is revealed like the moon in the bucket of water.
Then gone again. Grasping and clinging drive it further away. the conceptual self is back.
One sits again ... thus is the nature of mind ... hahaha

In practice, one is not trying to stop thoughts ... no.
It is the practice of letting thoughts come and go that give us the moments of clarity.
Of letting go of our conceptual self.
Awareness gives us the vantage point from which to experience original nature.

It was like ... ahhh, so this is the truth ... hahaha
Conceptualized ... in a nut shell ... a thought ... let go ... hahaha

Disclaimer: It is ever changing and so my thoughts here are not in stone but on the wind. Take what you like and toss what you don't like. It is just all stuff and stuff changes over time.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email Avisitor
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.08.2013
12:32PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Perhaps Buddhism is all about ownselves as others is just a lesson to be learn .......what is your own understanding ..........

Thks

CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154077
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
01:28PM EDT 
vertical line Perhaps you need to change the record.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154081
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.08.2013
01:32PM EDT 
vertical line That Buddhism question in full.

Do you want Buddhism blocked on your computer?
Would you like to keep watching Buddhism on your computer?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154082
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.08.2013
03:37PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Ah well, honest, straightforward reality transcends every concept under the Sun and beyond Nirvana.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154086
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Reply from Avisitor
Aug.08.2013
06:16PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Ah well, honest, straightforward reality transcends every concept under the Sun and beyond Nirvana."
.........

Reality is just what you perceive at the moment you are actually looking.
Beyond that, reality is what you make it.
Just like CSEe makes his own Buddhism up and believes it.
His faith in his own words and what he conjured up .. these things are just more "grist for the mill".
Just more stuff to be ground down into more stuff.
It isn't until one experiences the stream that one actually begins the path to escape the cycle of rebirth and death.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154087
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.08.2013
10:04PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I have my own unique stresses and strengths, thoughts and feelings, situation and circumstances, body and mind. Meditation is a way of accepting things just the way they are. Meditation doesn't need to be exaggerated. It is what it is.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
03:52AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Quote: "Ah well, honest, straightforward reality transcends every concept under the Sun and beyond Nirvana."
.........

Reality is just what you perceive at the moment you are actually looking.
Beyond that, reality is what you make it.
Just like CSEe makes his own Buddhism up and believes it.
His faith in his own words and what he conjured up .. these things are just more "grist for the mill".
Just more stuff to be ground down into more stuff.
It isn't until one experiences the stream that one actually begins the path to escape the cycle of rebirth and death.
"
.........

Dear Avisitor , how many times do I need to explain to you , I DO NOT HAVE ANY BELIEFS OR FAITH >>>>I am just challenging it for better understanding .......I hope please do not put words into my mouth or create image of me ..is really un-fair to me .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
04:04AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "That Buddhism question in full.

Do you want Buddhism blocked on your computer?
Would you like to keep watching Buddhism on your computer?
"
.........

whether my computer out of order or I being ban or anything happens is all still part of a natural process into my self liberation .....all that happens , happening now , all that will happens regardless how is your involvement it all still in natural process known as Buddhism ..................

So in human culture / lifelihood or in any existence .....nothing that happens is out of Buddhism ...all cant ascape from Buddhism . Lets debate ...

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
06:31AM EDT 
vertical line Take me to your leader.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
06:34AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Take me to your leader."
.........

Everything is my leader , you , your shoes , dust on your table , rubbish outside your window , your stool , your shirts ..............but I will never have any reason to be anyone leader ...Thats my current understanding of Buddhism.

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
06:36AM EDT 
vertical line What's your current understanding of ignorance?
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
06:38AM EDT 
vertical line What's your current understanding of "it appears that no one wants to debate with you because you don't know what debate is?"
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154102
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
06:44AM EDT 
vertical line What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?

Only askingx3.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
06:46AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "What's your current understanding of ignorance?"
.........

As human in human culture where knowledge is used as the basis of lifelihood "ignorance" as refer to lack knowledge ......but in Buddhism , is just part of one learning process ............

In human culture , if one fail to learn or ignor to accept knowledge , well that is accepted as being sturburn or can be refer as being stupid .....in Buddhism concept as what I currently understand ..........every living is in own learning process and cannot be compare to other ...

Osama Bin Laden have his learning process to discover his emotion , Dalai Lama also in his own learning process to discover his own ...both are in each Buddhism that never connected to each other .

But we could always learn from each other path to discover ours ..........Buddhism is all about learning from others or ownselves , no one will never have any reason to teach ....

Thks

CSEe 

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
06:49AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "What's your current understanding of "it appears that no one wants to debate with you because you don't know what debate is?""
.........

Sorry in advance , I had nanmed the topic , invite all of you to focus on a particular topic and yet you say I dont know what topic to debate ......I am puzzled .

Dear Sir , infact any topic can be reflected to Buddhism ...topic about politics , sports , sex , more sex , social ,you , etc ...is all in Buddhism

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
06:56AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?
What's your current understanding of neurosis?

Only askingx3.
"
.........

You mean mental sickness ? If that is the case well in human knowledge ...that is un-common human behaivour .......but in Buddhism that is just like Dalai Lama or Osama ...a learning lesson for you to discover your own , not for you to judge or to live in their condition ...you are in yours , they are in theirs .......so whatever they do is never right or wrong , true or false , good or bad ...that is just their learning lesson and their action is teaching you to discover yours ....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:00AM EDT 
vertical line What's your current understanding of a joke, you know, humour? And, er, which topic did you name? The one that says Buddhism is all about what you say it is, or the One Truth Buddhism that no one can escape from - sounds like a repressive regime - but of all the "isms" fascism is the most repressive.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:05AM EDT 
vertical line Is that another lecture you feel coming on?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:07AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "What's your current understanding of a joke, you know, humour? And, er, which topic did you name? The one that says Buddhism is all about what you say it is, or the One Truth Buddhism that no one can escape from - sounds like a repressive regime - but of all the "isms" fascism is the most repressive."
.........

No . The one topic that I hope to debate is your reasons to understand Buddhism , your reason to agree with Buddhism ...against my reason of the Buddhism ...and by sharing that realization via debate we could learn from each other ......

Thks CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:10AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Is that another lecture you feel coming on?"
.........

Dear Sir , I just hope to learn by debating our views .....never have any reason to teach others ...........sincerely .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line So, what you're saying then, is that you're ignorant of what you perceive.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:13AM EDT 
vertical line Hey, under my cloak, a fig for the king.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:28AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "So, what you're saying then, is that you're ignorant of what you perceive."
.........

In my current understanding , Buddhism is a natural process that never stop .....we are always in motion , our condition are always changed , we are in different condition every moment ...is always current , NOW without attachment of it .....so if you create a faith in your particular condition that will increase more emotions , increased suffering .

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:29AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Hey, under my cloak, a fig for the king."
.........

Sorry , please make it simple for me to understand ...I really cant understand your meaning .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:29AM EDT 
vertical line Is that why you can't drop the "ism"?
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:31AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Is that why you can't drop the "ism"?"
.........

Please explain further .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:32AM EDT 
vertical line This is where I came in.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:38AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "This is where I came in. "
.........

Sorry not understand you at all .

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:40AM EDT 
vertical line Feign an "ism", that might do it.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:46AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Feign an "ism", that might do it. "
.........

Dear sir , if you use simple English languange and direct question I have no problem understanding it ............but your writing as above need wildest imagination .

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
07:51AM EDT 
vertical line Todo concepto filosófico, tomado en su sentido más genérico, explica cualquier cosa.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
07:57AM EDT 
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Quote: "Todo concepto filosófico, tomado en su sentido más genérico, explica cualquier cosa."
.........

That confirm I am lost ....................I cant understand any words sorry .

Thks CSEe

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
08:02AM EDT 
vertical line Good. IT is beyond words. Beyond conceptual thinking. Beyond your current [intellectual] understanding.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
08:03AM EDT 
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Quote: "Good. IT is beyond words. Beyond conceptual thinking. Beyond your current [intellectual] understanding. "
.........

What is your meaning of IT ?

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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
08:27AM EDT 
vertical line IT is what you can't understand.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
08:35AM EDT 
vertical line IT's simple.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
08:50AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "IT is what you can't understand. "
.........

Do you understand SA ?

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
08:53AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Joe Chip , please chat with me in simple English language that all could understand ....I never avoid any topic for discussion but your short messages is very hard to understand ........

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from the alan
Aug.09.2013
09:12AM EDT 
Email the alan
vertical line Quote: "

Dear Joe Chip , please chat with me in simple English language that all could understand ....I never avoid any topic for discussion but your short messages is very hard to understand ........

Thks

CSEe

"
.........

See what I mean, Joe. Not helpful. You have plenty of "zen masters" on the forum to play zen games with. CSEe is looking for an honest and simple discussion. You're not face to face with him, quit making "it" unnecessarily complicated and cryptic.
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Reply from Joe Chip
Aug.09.2013
09:47AM EDT 
vertical line I don't see it that way. Sorry.
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Reply from the alan
Aug.09.2013
09:48AM EDT 
Email the alan
vertical line Quote: "I don't see it that way. Sorry. "
.........

I do, so find another forum.
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Reply from so_teh
Aug.09.2013
03:48PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Quietus.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
09:38PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Dear Joe Chip & Sit_Teh ,please communicate in  simple English languange that I could understand ......I am a Chinese Malaysia .....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.09.2013
11:09PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Find it in yourself.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.09.2013
11:32PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "Find it in yourself."
.........

Sorry , if you still playing with this kind of fancy words .....perhaps is difficult for me to imagine .......to me , is better with direct words with detail for better understanding .....

Thks

CSEe

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Reply from so_teh
Aug.10.2013
12:42AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line I wonder, is CSEe having various experiences?

Personally, I do not have various experiences, only one experience; present experience.
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Reply from *CSEe*
Aug.10.2013
01:54AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
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Quote: "I wonder, is CSEe having various experiences?

Personally, I do not have various experiences, only one experience; present experience.
"
.........

To me , Buddhism is all about learning from others never teaching so my reason to discuss / debate is to learn from you never interested to interfere your life ..............

In my current understanding of Buddhism , we are the condition we in NOW , not the past or future .............yourself is the condition you in and myself is the condition I in .......so every living / every non-living is only in one particular condition in a particular moment ..........therefore all of us is only in present condition never more that that .

In human culture , human attached to knowledge , human used knowledge as basis / guide of his life ...in this culture , human confused in his own knowledge ..........therefore human being human as what they created from their knowledge ......from knowledge human accepted past / present and future .........in Buddhism concept , human will under going a natural process discovering his own emotion by being awaken from knowledge ...........I hope to debate with you more , if interested .

Thks

CSEe 

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