history principles practice stories, books, media discussion forum organizations resources
zenguide.com logo
 
Thursday Apr 24 2014 01:15PM ET
º login º register º email º guestbook º printer friendly
grey dot
  Twenty monks and one nun, who was named Eshun, were practicing meditation with a certain Zen master. Eshun was very pretty even though her head was shaved and her dress plain. Several monks secretly fell in love with her. One of them wrote... continue...

z
.
e
.
n
menu left history menu spacer principles menu spacer practice menu spacer zen media menu spacer discussion forum menu spacer organization directory menu spacer resources  
login
  DISCUSSION FORUM
» topic list   » start a new topic   » my tracked topics   » view topic
grey dot

horizontal line
→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: MATTERS
vertical line Posted on Oct.03.2013 @ 08:09AM EDT by IZIZIZ
not a thing matters.
Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Oct.03.2013
11:14AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line I believe you matter
And I believe I matter
And I believe our choices matter
Maybe not to the eons of time
But, it matters to us ... now, here.

If you wish to see things from the other side then step across.
Find the answers and show the rest of us the truth.
Otherwise, we live in this world as real and true as it has ever been.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154647
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Oct.03.2013
01:55PM EDT 
vertical line I'm working on another 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle and need the light of day to see which piece fits in to make finish closer than if not found.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154651
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.03.2013
01:59PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

I currently of the opinion is a challenge to realize that nothing is matter , nor our existence or emotions ....in my current understanding of Buddhism nothing is matter because nothing is belong to us even "our life" or " our body" is never owned by us .......nothing matters because our existence is cause by our emotions and Buddhism is a natural process that we will free from all these emotions back into nothingness ...so nothing is important / nothing is matters .......because we are heading into emptiness / nothingness not by our choice , not by our wish .........so what matters ? Our existence ? I do not think so .................

Human had developed a culture of keeping knowledge , using knowlegde as basis of their life ..........and this had created a culture and human confused over own knowledge .

Buddhism is a process of self realization and this will free us from all the confusion naturally ......so by having faith , by attachment to knowledge this process will be pro-long but surely still will end up in nothingness

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154654
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Oct.03.2013
05:40PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Please try listening to others ... rather than always spouting what you believe in.
That is the way to learn. Not through debate but with open mind and ears that listen.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154659
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.03.2013
09:36PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "Please try listening to others ... rather than always spouting what you believe in.
That is the way to learn. Not through debate but with open mind and ears that listen.
"
.........

Yes agreed . But perhaps this goes to you .......please try to understand that I am here NOT to defend this view but rather to challenge it for my better understanding . Try to understand I am always ready to change if there is reason that change me ......I am always changing with or without my knowledge as I continue discussion as my views , condition will be change ...

Dear Avisitor , as I had told you before the reason I wish to debate with any Buddhism master is by debating I learn.......by debating I will explore deep into areas that I never been , reason that I never realize .....by debating I learn not only from others reply or reason but also learning from my own reason .......

Dear Avisitor , what is learning ? By accepting all that teach by Master ? By having faith to text / words that said to be from Siddharta ?.........or by blindly accepting th majority ?.....

Dear Avisitor ...please try to understand perhaps by reading your own words , you will understand me more .

Thks CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154669
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Oct.04.2013
08:49AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line You're not listening.
Protest all you want.
Nothing has changed.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154672
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2013
09:16AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "You're not listening.
Protest all you want.
Nothing has changed.
"
.........

Dear Avisitor , I notice from day one , you are trying to change me into your agreement and even asking me to do this or that ....in my culture it may even seem rude . Perhaps you should be open to all posibilities and debate with me instead of condaming my view ..............As I said to you perhaps hundreds of time , I learn as I discuss with others with or without notice by me .....but that is perhaps not for you to live in but you could see yourself in me as I could learn myself from you ...thats Buddhism , is to learn from all to discover ownselve ...........

many Buddhism teacher in all website just eager to change me , teach me and most of them even feel anger if they feel their "faith" being challenge ....there was even a "Buddhism teacher" told me I had confused him and all his 40 years learn is being upside down ...he claim that he start to have question over his own path after discussion with me but HAD to move away from me because he already too long in his path ...........many just like him do not challenge own faith but defending it ...

I am not like them , I sincerely wish to challenge my understanding and move on as I realize I never owned any knowledge ............knowledge is not something to gain but is just a factor for realization ........

Dear Avisitor , you are a active member in so many Buddhism wedsite .....and I sincerely wish to debate with you to further my understanding .......as for now there is no more teacher out there that interested to debate with me ...I hope you stay

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154673
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Oct.04.2013
04:50PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line No one cares if you agree or not.
But, you are the one crying out for a debate so that you can learn.
Always saying that it is for learning and that you don't defend your beliefs.
But, your actions betray you.
You debate to build up your beliefs and build up your ego.

I just ask you to learn through the method of listening to others.
You have failed and only proven that you don't care what others believe.
So, please ... have a good life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154674
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.04.2013
06:14PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line so it goes.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154675
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.04.2013
10:51PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "No one cares if you agree or not.
But, you are the one crying out for a debate so that you can learn.
Always saying that it is for learning and that you don't defend your beliefs.
But, your actions betray you.
You debate to build up your beliefs and build up your ego.

I just ask you to learn through the method of listening to others.
You have failed and only proven that you don't care what others believe.
So, please ... have a good life.
"
.........

Well if that is how you see me ...that will be part of your learning process to discover your emotions towards me and you .....you seems will never move away from ill perception on me regardless how much I had sincerely explained to you .....you keep on acuse me as you wish .....Dear Avisitor do you know why I in my current understanding that NO ONE can have any reason to teach Buddhism to others even by Mr Siddharta homself ?

Because I CURRENTLY of the opinion that Buddhism is a natural process that one realize ownselve / own nature .......so in simple words is how much you understand your emotion . So how can you know how much I understand my emotion ? and how can it be possible to measure that you know yourself more than I know myself and give you reason to teach me know myself ?

So Buddhism is impossible to be taught because no one could compare or knows others process .........so my dear Avisitor how can you know what is my emotions and give you a reason to believe my intention for debate or reason for my action ?........in short how can you know me better than I know myself ...........even I cant possibily clarify to you about myself.....

Dear Avisitor , so far I never enter your life or comment about you and very sorry in advance if what I am about to say hurt you ...........to me you are suffering from your knowledge , from your intention / actions , you are suffering from the burden of what you have experience or learnt , you are suffering on carrying and keep on gainning more and more on your emotions .........seems to me the more you learn , the more burden on your back , the more suffering you will be .........your path lead you into faith , beliefs and ego / proud will be a culture in this path .........eventhough all of us will always in Buddhism process but you choose to travel in longer / more suffering journey ...........why ? because you increasing your emotions with what you learn but Buddhism is a natural process that we will decrease in our emotions leading to emptiness back into nothingness ...you choose to swim against the river which is taking you into sea , the same river that all of us in ...so if you just follow the current , it will be faster / pleasent / relexing journey but if you choose to swim against the river , you will never reach to the dry land because there is no dry land ..........that "dry land" is your delution ...you will still always in the river but suffering with lots of hardship / confusion / panic ......

Your faith is that dry land , your expectation is that dry land , your emotions on me is that dry land .....your attachment on your meditation is that dry land ...your faith on this body known as " Avisitor" is that dry land ....................

and that is your delution / confusion and suffering ..................I am sorry if I enter your life but as I am learning here so please lets debate .

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154677
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Avisitor
Oct.05.2013
01:16PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Well if that is how you see me ...that will be part of your learning process to discover your emotions towards me and you .....you seems will never move away from ill perception on me regardless how much I had sincerely explained to you .....you keep on acuse me as you wish .....Dear Avisitor do you know why I in my current understanding that NO ONE can have any reason to teach Buddhism to others even by Mr Siddharta homself ?

Because I CURRENTLY of the opinion that Buddhism is a natural process that one realize ownselve / own nature .......so in simple words is how much you understand your emotion . So how can you know how much I understand my emotion ? and how can it be possible to measure that you know yourself more than I know myself and give you reason to teach me know myself ?


.........

If your cup is full of water then can I pour tea into it??
If your mind is full and wants to debate then can it learn anything??

You continue to explain your beliefs.
You do not listen. You do not learn.
You accuse others of your actions of trying to convince others of your beliefs.
You say you want to learn ... yet, you never listen.
You never ask questions to clarify the issues or topic.

You have been to other websites and to other people.
They all have done the same ... ban you.
And still you don't yet understand why??
You think it is because they don't allow freedom of speech.

I can not help you.
Only you can do that.
And the first step is to quiet your mind so you can listen .. to understand ... to grow from there.
Otherwise, you will continue to be the same ... only thinking your Buddhism is better than others ... looking for debate to bolster your beliefs.


Have a good life.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154679
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.05.2013
07:29PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Neither a Suchness
Neither a Singularity
Neither a Duality
Neither a Negation

So what?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154685
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.05.2013
08:04PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Tea?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154686
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.05.2013
10:22PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Or put it this way...

Neither suchness, nor singularity, nor duality, nor negation.Only seeing.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154687
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2013
10:41PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you said I quote "If your cup is full of water then can I pour tea into it?? Un-quote

Is human culture want to teach others if they have confident or faith that they are right and is also human culture that we accept teachers in education , in sports , in society even in sex .......but that is human culture where we learn knowledge from others that know more than us ...........knowledge is something we could learn or even measure . Just like in school , we can even testify a pupil knowledge by giving them a test .......if a person study hard in school , get good result in their test , go to university and study medicion , he will accepted as doctor.....a doctor is accepted by human culture as a person knows about medicion / health and we even trusted him to open our heart for surgery.......thats human culture where knowledge is use as basis .....

But in my current understanding Buddhism is beyond culture , beyond knowledge .....Buddhism in my current understanding , is a natural process that you will discover your own nature , your own existence , the cause of your existence , the purpose of your existence and the end of yourself .........is a process you realize yourself / your emotions ........is always you in your process in your world .....and is always me in my process ...I will never know how much you in your process as is possible for you to know how much I know myself ........thats is why to me BUddhism is something that impossible to be taught even by Siddharta himself ....

So , my dear friend WHY YOU WANT TO POUR WATER INTO MY CUP ?
In my current understanding , Buddhism is a process that you should awake to aware your reason , your desire on wanting to pour water into my cup , you should awake to aware your reason , your emotion , your beliefs on  me and learn from that emotion , discover that emotions , realize your emotions .......................

You seems mix up human culture in realization of Buddhism and even perhaps take in Buddhism as human culture ............

Perhaps is your cup which is NOT only full already but overflow.......that makes you wanting to pour into others cup ................ In my realization of Buddhism , there never is  a cup becaue there is nothing to gain , knowledge is just an information for me to discover myself , myself is something that I will naturally decreasing .........so why I need a cup if I do not have anything to put it ? ......Buddhism is a natural process into emptiness and why are you still  keeping sometthing ? .........If you awake to aware , as you travel if you gain more knowledge , you will carry it on on your back and the more you travel , the more burden on your back ...you will always suffering ......if you realize Buddhism , knowledge will be a factor of your liberation , a factor you realize your burden .....and as you travel into this path , knowledge is just a tiny part of your realization and as you travel ...you not only never put more weight on your back but you letting dowm more things ...less burden on your back .......so as you travel your burden decreases ...........thats Buddhism in my current understanding .

I will reply more .........

Thks

CSEe 

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154689
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2013
11:01PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , yopu said , I quote " If your mind is full and wants to debate then can it learn anything?? Un-quote

Why makes you think my mind is full ? Is that because you feel you fail to put something in ?.........

Dear Avisitor ,in my current understanding of Buddhism is that each moment in my journey known as life , I will always be in a new / different condition ......each moment I am different as I will never be in a same condition ........so as I travel , by being awake to aware , I will absorb / learn / discover from all external / internal factors ...from others action / re-action , from my action or reaction and I changes from one condition into another condition with or without realizing it .........so at any time , I will never be full because I am travelling in my journey / my life ..........so at any time I am ready to learn , ready to discover new awareness , ready to change ............so do you in this awareness of yourself ? If you do perhaps you will never ask this question to me  

Dear Avisitor , you said "You continue to explain your beliefs.
You do not listen. You do not learn.
You accuse others of your actions of trying to convince others of your beliefs.
You say you want to learn ... yet, you never listen.
You never ask questions to clarify the issues or topic." Un-quote

All I hope is a debate ......if you joint in a debate with a sincere emotion to learn , you will never have any intention to ask these question to me .........Perhaps I never ask  question because is never my intention to teach  .......perhaps I never ask question as I already learn from it ...........but if we are in debate , we will greatly learn from others reply or even from own answer .......so lets debate shall we .

More to follow ............

Thks CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154691
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2013
11:07PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you said , I quote " You have been to other websites and to other people.They all have done the same ... ban you.
And still you don't yet understand why??
You think it is because they don't allow freedom of speech." un-quote

Perhaps I was not understand , perhaps now still not ...but now I in different condition ...I never really interested to know the reason because I am in my process to learn and regardless how others treat me , I am learning therefore I am always "winning" as Buddhism is not to gain something but to loose everything ..........so Zen guide is free to ban me ..........and if that happens I wish to thank them for all that I had learn via this website .......

Thks CSEe

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154692
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.05.2013
11:17PM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Dear Avisitor , you said " I can not help you.
Only you can do that.
And the first step is to quiet your mind so you can listen .. to understand ... to grow from there.
Otherwise, you will continue to be the same ... only thinking your Buddhism is better than others ... looking for debate to bolster your beliefs." un-quote

First of all , I never ask you for help , as I had explained in Buddhism is all about own will , own desire so I will learn as long as I had the will / the desire / the emotion to learn and for that I can learn from anything / anything one regardless their nature ...so you do not need to create a emotion to teach me as I can learn from you any way .......in Buddhism a dirt on your table can teach you if you realize it and awake to learn .................

Dear Avisitor , in Buddhism perhaps the best teacher is ownselves .......so that mean that the best teacher is all our action , re-action , intention , emotions ......

So if we could learn from our regrets , our joy , our greed , our past action , our future intention , our sorrow , our desire ...even our writing ........

So dear Avisitor , sorry in advance , very sorry in advance perhaps you should read again and again your writing as learn your emotion .........perhaps you will discover more on yourself and even myself by reading your own writing , your own words ........as your own words is the best teacher to you .....better than Siddharta's words that for sure ......so why dont you try read your reply to me again and again and learn ..........

Thks CSEe


vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154693
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.06.2013
02:28AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "Neither a Suchness
Neither a Singularity
Neither a Duality
Neither a Negation

So what?
"
.........

Perhaps Buddhism is not to find answer to fulfill desire to know , perhaps knowing is not the solution to desire ........perhaps in realization of Buddhism , one will realize without having desire to know ,but acceptance beyond knowledge ........if you are trying to know , you will know because of your will to know , and if you live in what you know , you will became the knowledge of what you have known ...........you will create another life , another suffering and confuse over multiple existence ...you will creates more and more lifes , more and more emotions , more and more delutions ...and with that tons of burden , you will suffer ....suffering on what you know , suffering on what you wish to know ..............buddhism perhaps is exploration on your emotions , not on knowledge , discovering your existence not creating another existence ........lets debate on this for my learning process

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154694
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from *CSEe*
Oct.06.2013
02:35AM EDT 
Email *CSEe*
vertical line

Quote: "Or put it this way...

Neither suchness, nor singularity, nor duality, nor negation.Only seeing.
"
.........

Perhaps if seeing with intention of what to see , when to see , how to see it , we will see things as what we expected to see , see things as what we wish to see .......and with that we will always confused in our own knowledge .........perhaps buddhism is realization and is beyond all action or re-actiob as all is just an information , a factor never the cause .........is perhaps seeing without intention to see , but awake to aware what being seen ........................

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154695
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.06.2013
04:35AM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Just
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154696
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from football
Oct.06.2013
04:57AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Some while ago Avisitor wrote this:

"Don't chase or push out or try to control. Just let the mind calm on its own."

Where is desire here?Where is knowledge here?Where is intention here?...

In Zen there are none.

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154697
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from Woodsman
Oct.06.2013
10:13AM EDT 
vertical line chirp chirp
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154698
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from football
Oct.06.2013
10:56AM EDT 
Email football
vertical line analysis synthesis
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154700
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.08.2013
05:38PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Take it for what it is but make it meaningful.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154720
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from football
Oct.13.2013
05:43PM EDT 
Email football
vertical line

Quote: "Take it for what it is but make it meaningful."
.........

Group 110

vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154767
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.15.2013
10:29PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line anything goes
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154808
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from sit_teh
Oct.15.2013
10:53PM EDT 
Email sit_teh
vertical line Plant.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154809
horizontal line
 
horizontal line
Reply from jaigon
Oct.19.2013
02:54AM EDT 
Email jaigon
vertical line You can only learn so much until it becomes useless.  Knowledge is the primer, but is never the experience
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 154859
horizontal line
 
Back To Topic List   Go to Top of Page

 



SUPPORT ZENGUIDE.COM
If you are planning on purchasing any product from amazon.com, you can help us out by using the search box to the right or by clicking on this link to begin shopping.


Purchase posters, art prints, media (music CD & DVD)

buy this BUDDHA
by Hugh Sitton
Puchase this Item
More Art Prints & Media
Zen & Buddhism books
 
 
d
.
i
.
s
.
c
.
u
.
s
.
s
.
i
.
o
.
n
.

.
f
.
o
.
r
.
u
.
m
.
Copyright © 1999 - 2014 zenguide.com - All rights reserved. °