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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: CRISIS
vertical line Posted on Feb.23.2014 @ 10:59AM EDT by QuantumZen
Hello internet dwellers. It must have been a year since my last post and many of you won't remember me or don't know me in the first place.
I have a favour/question to ask.

How does zen help to fight laziness? I was onto something. I achieved kenso, I felt liberated then I returned to my kind of suffering, indescribable and omnipotent laziness. I haven't been meditating for months, I don't do what I need to. I destroy myself (notice the I in this sentence). How does one become enlightened if he is to lazy to do that?
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.23.2014
12:00PM EDT 
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vertical line By believing  you can, even with laziness. There are far more distractions of denial in facing being with suffering.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155881
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Reply from so_teh
Feb.23.2014
03:29PM EDT 
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vertical line Just change.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155882
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Reply from so_teh
Feb.23.2014
03:47PM EDT 
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vertical line People want discipline, people want a job, people want love, anything to feel less lazy. Zen gives you change, the actual living experience of change felt in body, mind and being. Be sensitive to change, all around. Be one with change. Beyond consciousness, me and thought, there is only change and by experiencing change you'll have changeless enlightenment, always.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155883
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Reply from leoj99
Feb.23.2014
07:16PM EDT 
vertical line How come you said you achieved kensho and you are liberated... and now you are lazy... you are really a kind of a dude...LOL
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155884
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Reply from QuantumZen
Feb.23.2014
07:45PM EDT 
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vertical line I recently turned vegetarian. But before the turning, I lived years wanting to turn. I thought that it is logical, moral, better etc. And it was instant and unplanned when I finally decided not to eat meat at all.

Same thing is happening now. My biggest problem (cause of stress) is my pile of work due to laziness. Whilst having so much work I don't have the time to "sit around" in zazen, but at the same time I do nothing. I understand what needs to be done and hot to do it. Yet "I" wont listen. And "I" hate myself for that.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155885
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Reply from urgent
Feb.24.2014
05:31AM EDT 
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vertical line You may want to change your life style.(just a thought)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155886
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Reply from QuantumZen
Feb.24.2014
09:48AM EDT 
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vertical line That is the root of the problem. How do you change your lifestyle? Are you suggesting new year resolution?
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155887
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Reply from urgent
Feb.24.2014
11:56AM EDT 
Email urgent
vertical line Live, Love, Dance...what else
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155888
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Reply from robert54
Feb.24.2014
05:58PM EDT 
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vertical line I think you feel what many feel. I try to live "In the moment" and just do. I try to detach but in the modern world it is difficult. There many distractions and we can't take off and sit under a tree for a year. Every day I fail at zen. In some way I get it wrong or get too angry or feel the world owes me something. But then something always reminds me of the eightfold path and in particular "mindfulness". As long as you are aware of your mistakes then something will always drag you back to the right path. I am a long way from perfect but I know I have more centre now than I once did.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155889
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Reply from robert54
Feb.25.2014
09:51AM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "That is the root of the problem. How do you change your lifestyle? Are you suggesting new year resolution? "
.........
Perhaps just a resolution (or maybe revolution). A new way of thinking (or NOT thinking).
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155892
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Reply from Woodsman
Feb.25.2014
05:07PM EDT 
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vertical line exactly, we open to all ways that reach perception...
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
______
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155893
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Reply from Riverstone
Feb.25.2014
07:52PM EDT 
vertical line I do not know if you achieved Kensho. What I do know is that I had an experience of awakening and when it was over I suffered the darkest depression I have ever or since endured. From what I know now, it would have been beneficial had I been practicing in a Soto Zen Sangha at the time. The advice given is simple, keep practicing and let the experience that occurs pass, all of them. Kensho is a lot of distracting fireworks, very interesting, very profound, with great insight. It will pass, it is natural that it passes. Life is not a constant orgasm, other things occur. If you carry this experience around it begins to rot and smell badly. I still have a lingering smell of arrogance, and a distrust that anyone else knows what this is. But there are those that do, they often describe it from a diverse frame of reference. And those who have integrated it into their lives, smooth out. I am smooth and rough. I spent too long conceptualizing about it.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155894
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Reply from Avisitor
Feb.25.2014
10:31PM EDT 
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vertical line Practice is not to be thought of as something to do or want to do.
It has to be something that one desires ... like, as in sexual desire.
It comes from taking delight from just sitting around.

If it is something one feels one needs to do then one will never do it.
Practice comes when one feels it ... delights in it ... craves it ... desires it

If one thinks of it as something that must be done to have something else then it won't be done.
If it is a pleasure in and of itself then one practices cause it is the cause and the reason for practicing.

Crisis?? No, you are just looking for an excuse to practice. Looking for a teacher. Looking for a sangha. To practice.
Good luck .... hahahaha
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Reply from QuantumZen
Feb.26.2014
03:31PM EDT 
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vertical line I thought one should extinguish desires ;)
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155896
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Reply from Avisitor
Feb.26.2014
06:44PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I thought one should extinguish desires ;)
"
.........

No, no, one does not extinguish desires
Rather it is more of release or relinquish

When practicing, the task is to let go of thoughts
Not to extinguish thoughts, not to chase thoughts, not to suppress thoughts
Same goes for desires.

As we continue to live here, now
We still use thoughts. We don't extinguish thoughts
As we continue to live here, now
We still have desires or needs. Food, warmth, sleep ...

Life doesn't stop when one has a sudden experience
Practice continues
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155897
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Reply from urgent
Feb.27.2014
03:40PM EDT 
Email urgent
vertical line Once sit_teh, a friend here said that it is tricky logic can not grasp it, I believe him.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155900
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Reply from so_teh
Feb.28.2014
01:09AM EDT 
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vertical line the natural mantra is out, tonight
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155901
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Reply from leoj99
Feb.28.2014
04:33AM EDT 
vertical line Then you all say no picking and choosing...LOL... and that is what you are doing...letting go of thoughts.. .. not to extinguish thoughts.. not to chase thoughts, not to suppress thoughts.. but let them go...LOL...

picking and choosing..

so how could you let go of thoughts when you are always entertaining them....LOL
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155902
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Reply from Avisitor
Feb.28.2014
04:35PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "

picking and choosing..

so how could you let go of thoughts when you are always entertaining them....LOL
"
.........

That is what practice is for ... hahaha
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155903
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Reply from so_teh
Feb.28.2014
10:18PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line Ahem. Stop where you are. Leave everything as it is. As you were.
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155904
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Reply from leoj99
Feb.28.2014
10:51PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "

picking and choosing..

so how could you let go of thoughts when you are always entertaining them....LOL
"
.........

That is what practice is for ... hahaha
"
.........

How many lifetimes will you practice? a thousand?...LOL
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155905
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Reply from Avisitor
Mar.01.2014
12:32PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

picking and choosing..

so how could you let go of thoughts when you are always entertaining them....LOL
"
.........

That is what practice is for ... hahaha
"
.........

How many lifetimes will you practice? a thousand?...LOL
"
.........

As many as it takes
and not one more
and not one less
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155908
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Reply from urgent
Mar.01.2014
01:02PM EDT 
Email urgent
vertical line Peace Gassho Love     one more
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155909
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.01.2014
03:59PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "

picking and choosing..

so how could you let go of thoughts when you are always entertaining them....LOL
"
.........

That is what practice is for ... hahaha
"
.........

How many lifetimes will you practice? a thousand?...LOL
"
.........

As many as it takes
and not one more
and not one less
"
.........

I think you really one kind of a dude too...LOL...LOL
vertical line Quote & Reply   Post Reply 155910
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