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→→→→ vertical line TOPIC: THINKING EXPLAINED
vertical line Posted on Mar.16.2014 @ 12:01AM EDT by justin

To obtain liberation is to attain samadhi of prajna, which is thoughtlessness. What is thoughtlessness? Thoughtlessness is to see and to know all dharmas with a mind free from attachment. When in use it pervades everywhere, and yet it sticks nowhere … But to refrain from thinking of anything, so that all thoughts are suppressed, is to be dharma-ridden, and this is an erroneous view.

The Diamond Sutra and The Sutra of Hui-Neng.


Go to Latest Reply   Reply to this Topic   Email justin
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
02:31AM EDT 
vertical line So who told you I am not thinking...LOL.. I told you I can stop thinking... that is what I am telling too.,.. stop thinking...LOL
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
02:35AM EDT 
vertical line I always tell... Stop Thinking...I did not tell ... Don't think at all...LOL
How could I tell things in this forum if I don't think at all...LOL
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
02:36AM EDT 
vertical line Isn't it very obvious.. simple..LOL
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Reply from justin
Mar.16.2014
02:57AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Quote: "Isn't it very obvious.. simple..LOL "
.........

What makes you think this was for you ? :)

I just put some words from the Buddha on here,
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Reply from justin
Mar.16.2014
03:00AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Debate with the Buddha, 
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
03:20AM EDT 
vertical line For most people are always on automatic thinking mode and almost impossible to stop thinking. That is why they react violently when told to stop thinking...LOL.. you are telling them to do something that they think impossible because their mind is controlling them.. they are not the ones controlling their mind...LOL..

When your mind is controlling  you.. that is very dangerous...LOL
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
03:22AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "Quote: "Isn't it very obvious.. simple..LOL "
.........

What makes you think this was for you ? :)

I just put some words from the Buddha on here,
"
.........

Because I am the only one who is telling people to stop thinking...LOL..
Stop  thinking... not don't think at all..LOL
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
03:25AM EDT 
vertical line Oh.. how they hate in Zen forums when told .. to.. stop thinking...LOL.. as if they will become crazy or they will die.. t hey think it is impossible to do..LOL.. they even say.. you must as well cut your head... LOL... if you are hard headed then you must as well cut your head..LOL
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.16.2014
09:39AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line Going back to the one stillness before thoughts and words directed us out of the union of being free opens all the doors including us in all being, freed from becoming lost in thoughts of separateness.    
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
06:09PM EDT 
vertical line You see... if only you can stop thinking... you would be alright...LOL
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.16.2014
06:13PM EDT 
vertical line So if your mind is controlling you... you are at the mercy of your mind...

What I am telling in stop thinking is.. gain control of your mind... which is your original nature.. your true nature...LOL
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Reply from justin
Mar.16.2014
08:22PM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line ahhh now that is something totally different,

to look for the original nature,
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Reply from justin
Mar.16.2014
08:46PM EDT 
Email justin
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I think it is a language thing, I understand that to see reality one needs to rid their mind from the illusions of endless thought. Also I understand that thoughts about things impair and restrict the ability to see things as is. (original nature). Like the picture the thought is a semblance of the thing and allways tainted and bias towards our own perspective. And thus inaccurate, erroneous.

But I come to these conclusions by thought,

I also understand the concepts of eptyness, of self, and ego , and the connection between thoughts and ideas of self. I also understand the internal dialogue and the value of stopping the monkey Chatter.

I also understand the consequence of cherished opinions, and the need to just drop them, the need to have no beliefs in that we are not disturbed. I also understand the consideration of allowing the world to teach me Dharma, and that in order to do this the internal dialogue need to be quiet.

But there is no road to this understanding by simply not thinking.

In the last nine years (I can not talk beyond that) these things have been discussed a million times.

I don’t know about any other Zen forums, single digit syllable sayings are ok where they are applicable. However so are in depth explanations of what some one might mean to explain.

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Reply from leoj99
Mar.17.2014
01:20AM EDT 
vertical line That is the problem of understanding through words, thinking and analyzing the meanings of the words.. your thinking or thoughts analyze the products of thoughts. The more knowledge of these kind sooner or later it becomes very messy. It is like philosophy...

What I am talking about is experiencial understanding.. Once you experience it you will know beyond all words...LOL

Once you experience not thinking then you got it...

Don't search for words and ideas to tell you how to do it..

That is the purpose of zazen.. to stop your monkey mind or chattering  mind...
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Reply from justin
Mar.17.2014
11:53AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line yes we are in agreement Leo, 
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Reply from robert54
Mar.20.2014
10:31AM EDT 
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vertical line We can discuss not thinking all day long on a forum, and maybe even come to some conclusion(s), but in order to discuss it we have to think. Without thought we would mindlessly tap at a keyboard and make no sense (monkeys and Shakespeare come to mind). Without thought we would be unable to have any discussion because we have, at some point, to use logical thought to get across our points, however valid or otherwise. If we say we understand the concept of not thinking we are in the process of thinking in order to understand the concept. I find it a puzzlement, even though I DO understand the idea.
Do we understand it fully or are we getting the idea slightly wrong?
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Reply from robert54
Mar.20.2014
11:02AM EDT 
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vertical line It occurred to me after my last post that I suppose I have just answered my own question. For centuries great teachers have said (in varying terms) that if you think you understand Zen then you don't understand it at all.
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Reply from justin
Mar.21.2014
04:55AM EDT 
Email justin
vertical line Robert what are you talking about :) 
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Reply from urgent
Mar.21.2014
08:55AM EDT 
Email urgent
vertical line BOM BOM BOM
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.22.2014
03:15AM EDT 
vertical line He is talking about.. not thinking ... by thinking...LOL

"
if you think you understand Zen then you don't understand it at all."

That is why right from the start I tell you people to... Stop Thinking...LOL..

And I always repeat and repeat because it is the only method that solve  you original nature...LOL.. no matter how people get mad or irritated.. I will repeat and repeat..LOL

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Reply from robert54
Mar.24.2014
03:58AM EDT 
Email robert54
vertical line I am talking about the idea of thoughtlessness as a concept. but a concept is is am idea,which is wrong in the context of this discussion.
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Reply from leoj99
Mar.25.2014
02:57AM EDT 
vertical line It seems to me that those who has names with numbers...like robert54 and leoj99 got it..LOL.. those who don't have numbers in Zen Forums don't get it...LOL..

Ah one without numbers is Woodman..S"
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Reply from Woodsman
Mar.25.2014
09:17AM EDT 
Email Woodsman
vertical line B 4 I 8 I was a seed free of nothing. Fasting brings us back to all beings beginnings.
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Reply from floating_a
Mar.26.2014
11:52AM EDT 
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.
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Reply from Avisitor
Mar.27.2014
04:49PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line To obtain liberation is to attain samadhi of prajna, which is thoughtlessness. What is thoughtlessness? Thoughtlessness is to see and to know all dharmas with a mind free from attachment. When in use it pervades everywhere, and yet it sticks nowhere … But to refrain from thinking of anything, so that all thoughts are suppressed, is to be dharma-ridden, and this is an erroneous view.

The Diamond Sutra and The Sutra of Hui-Neng.


Thoughtlessness and to stop thinking is not the same.
The first brings about clarity of mind and liberation.
The second is a wrong idea of samadhi and is delusion.

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.03.2014
08:06PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "It occurred to me after my last post that I suppose I have just answered my own question. For centuries great teachers have said (in varying terms) that if you think you understand Zen then you don't understand it at all.
"
.........

Zen is not a concept
So understanding Zen is not Zen
When one experiences one true nature
That is Zen.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.04.2014
06:50AM EDT 
vertical line Everything's a concept.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.04.2014
11:08AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Everything's a concept."
.........

Only cause you force it to use your consciousness.
Let it go and experience your true nature.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.04.2014
12:10PM EDT 
vertical line You hold with all the letting go - see? - symbols everywhere.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.04.2014
12:14PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "You hold with all the letting go - see? - symbols everywhere."
.........

And you keep looking at the finger pointing to the truth rather than looking at the truth yourself.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.04.2014
12:16PM EDT 
vertical line Don't be so ridiculous.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.04.2014
06:22PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Don't be so ridiculous. "
.........

That is your mind fighting to hold onto this consciousness of deluded thoughts and images.
Let go of the greed, hatred, delusions.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.04.2014
07:10PM EDT 
vertical line The finger of god is an offence to the olfactory system.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.04.2014
08:30PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "The finger of god is an offence to the olfactory system."
.........

Why are you here??
Are you trying to learn or to help others in their journey??

It seems that you are just here to put out witty remarks and admire your own words. Neither learning nor helping others.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.04.2014
08:50PM EDT 
vertical line Inzense.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.05.2014
06:12AM EDT 
vertical line Who are you really?
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.05.2014
06:14AM EDT 
vertical line I am the Truth!  I am here at liberty, answerable to no one.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.05.2014
03:28PM EDT 
vertical line Most of the time I am in agreement wtih Leoj....but I get bored because like a broken record and he keeps going, always arguing his point when in reality I am not even in contention with it. So I am bored lately as I have just been reading these post and not responding....let me see maybe if I poke LEOJ and tell him to stop SPEaking because his speaking is not Dharma....lets see how hostile he will get now....maybe as hostile as when no one was speaking to him about not thinking....yet he attacks everything and everyone for his perception of being attacked....oh and he will try to say I am attacking him now and that I am hostile....when really I don't care....except to alleviate a little boredom.......he always looks like daffy duck hopping around in his madness.....and dare I say....I am not teasing here but a little because in reality....on the every day life...when I get hooked by one attachment or other...I look like daffy duck too...hopping around....and in a sense right now I am being daffy duck....arguing with the rabbit that it is rabbit season and not duck season....
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.05.2014
03:30PM EDT 
vertical line DUCK SEASON!
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.05.2014
05:10PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Leoj keeps barking "stop thinking".
And else where, I hear "one thought"..
If not then use the mantras.

I am tired of it. Wish there was a pill to take to ease this ...
Maybe some aspirin??
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.05.2014
05:47PM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line you want me to give up heavy metal?
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.05.2014
06:03PM EDT 
vertical line Boredom doesn't exist in the present.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.05.2014
06:06PM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, they're all so bored.  And tired of it.  Which means they're already walking through the valley of the shadow of death. They've had "Thinking Explained" to them and they're bored with it.  They've had the universe explained to them and they're bored with it.  They've had the living body explained to them and they're bored with it.  They've had dark matter explained to them and they're bored with it.  So now they're looking for some cheap [poke-poke-nudge-nudge] thrills and plenty of 'em.  And it doesn't matter how vacuous the thrills are, as long as they're new and preferably flash and beep in forty different colours.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.06.2014
03:15AM EDT 
vertical line Phil..Space... you are right they get bored...LOL... good they admit it.. the two friends... they get bored... I already stopped talking and they are still bored..LOL...
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.06.2014
03:17AM EDT 
vertical line How come it took them so long to express their boredom.. thats what I am ticking on them.. their ego gets bored...LOL
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.06.2014
05:39AM EDT 
Email ---T e
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Quote: "you want me to give up heavy metal?"
.........

ok
waiting for the right moment to speak...

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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.06.2014
07:16AM EDT 
vertical line Has the moment passed?
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.06.2014
08:09AM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line I can't catch the moment.even don't know where it is hiding.Do you?
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.06.2014
08:15AM EDT 
Email ---T e
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Remind me the ten bulls.After all these years passed I'm still at the beginning.But my bull's footprints are white.

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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.06.2014
08:22AM EDT 
vertical line No, I don't know - it's the dogs of sense that hunt the moment.
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.06.2014
08:36AM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line yes we're in agreement.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.06.2014
01:11PM EDT 
vertical line Okay.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
04:10PM EDT 
vertical line Leoj if you know the experience of no thought then explain your true nature, describe it.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
04:13PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "How come it took them so long to express their boredom.. thats what I am ticking on them.. their ego gets bored...LOL

"
.........

You are so full of hatred, always attacking when no one has attacked you.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.06.2014
07:57PM EDT 
vertical line Honi soit qui mal y pense.
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.06.2014
09:03PM EDT 
vertical line I am full of hatred?... am I attacking when I was just confirming your boredom ... how could I have hatred when I am just laughing at you...LOL...You ask Phil.. Space if I have hatred...LOL>>>
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.06.2014
09:04PM EDT 
vertical line How could I describe my buddha nature.. that which undiscribable....lol
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
09:26PM EDT 
vertical line *because you do not know.....and you have yet to know...because all you can do is be mean spirited and domineering....because you speak too much and say too little......an ego as huge as the world ...and fear and viciousness to match...
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
09:45PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "How could I describe my buddha nature.. that which undiscribable....lol

"
.........

You have attacked not only me but others on here I call you out as a self serving ego who knows nothing of kindness and compassion. I call you out as a bragart, an egotist, who sits on the throne of the monkey mind and attempts to dissuade those with genuine desire to share and to learn.

You have never advised anyone here in the spirit of humility but from your own need to be right.

Show yourself for who you are, because if you knew who you were you would bow to EVERYONE
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
09:57PM EDT 
vertical line By the way if you can't tell.....I am pushing boundaries and buttons on purpose. I have witnessed this forum confuse novice practitioners out of their own misunderstanding. I no longer see this as a safe haven for the neophyte practitioner, but as a limbo for those caught by their self serving constructs and ideas. Zen is free, spacious, clear luminescent abiding that resist nothing, runs from nothing, and fears nothing. And I do not fear to state the truth here....that those who participate in this forum may as well master ate in lieu of practice, because that is exactly what goes on here....intellectual masturbation.

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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
10:18PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "I am the Truth!  I am here at liberty, answerable to no one.

"
.........

You are a troll and have nothing to offer in terms of kindness....someone should spank you with a hickory stick and send you crying to your mother.......now watch as he shoves his cyber chest out in defiance while at home all alone he weeps because he has nothing better to do than troll forums on what he knows nothing about...
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
10:19PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "It seems to me that those who has names with numbers...like robert54 and leoj99 got it..LOL.. those who don't have numbers in Zen Forums don't get it...LOL..

Ah one without numbers is Woodman..S"


"
.........



This is an example of your intellectual capacity....troll
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
10:22PM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "How come it took them so long to express their boredom.. thats what I am ticking on them.. their ego gets bored...LOL

"
.........

Quite right oh master and lord of self aggrandizingg pot calling kettle
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.06.2014
10:46PM EDT 
vertical line Please recall that I am pushing buttons and testing boundaries as I have seen certain individuals commit murder in here. So I did a little Hari Kari to see if I would be banned or spoken to. Nothing happened. So This forum is a troll free for all. AS should have been apparent to me considering all that goes on...
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.06.2014
11:18PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line To practice, one must first break from knowledge and understanding
Then, with focus and concentration put ones efforts on one task.
Letting thoughts go, neither suppressing nor chasing thoughts.
Trying to observe where the thoughts arise from and where they go.
This is the meaning of practice.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.06.2014
11:19PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "Please recall that I am pushing buttons and testing boundaries as I have seen certain individuals commit murder in here. So I did a little Hari Kari to see if I would be banned or spoken to. Nothing happened. So This forum is a troll free for all. AS should have been apparent to me considering all that goes on..."
.........

Alan does do some moderating on this forum.
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.07.2014
01:56AM EDT 
Email ---T e
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Quote: "Debate with the Buddha "
.........

What do you mean?

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Reply from ---T e
Jul.07.2014
01:59AM EDT 
Email ---T e
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Quote: "intellectual masturbation "
.........

mental masturbation

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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.07.2014
06:13AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "That is the problem of understanding through words, thinking and analyzing the meanings of the words.. your thinking or thoughts analyze the products of thoughts. The more knowledge of these kind sooner or later it becomes very messy. It is like philosophy...

What I am talking about is experiencial understanding.. Once you experience it you will know beyond all words...LOL

Once you experience not thinking then you got it...

Don't search for words and ideas to tell you how to do it..

That is the purpose of zazen.. to stop your monkey mind or chattering  mind...


"
.........

That is a good start. Now what .... hahaha
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.07.2014
07:01AM EDT 
vertical line It's an obvious set up so what happens next is what you planned next - I'm bad, so I'll suffer with you ... hahaha

Why don't you turn off your computers and go and do something less boring instead?

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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.07.2014
07:11AM EDT 
vertical line It's the off button. Cheers.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.07.2014
01:52PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "It's an obvious set up so what happens next is what you planned next - I'm bad, so I'll suffer with you ... hahaha

Why don't you turn off your computers and go and do something less boring instead?

"
.........

Boring and suffering is the same.
It depends on your view of it.
Change where you stand and the object changes.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.07.2014
02:34PM EDT 
vertical line I'm never bored.
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.07.2014
03:13PM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Quote: "I'm never bored. "
.........

But you are boring at times.
You are still not helping n or learning anything here.'
Why don't you try to be more useful??
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.07.2014
03:51PM EDT 
Email ---T e
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Quote: "DUCK SEASON!"
.........

lying in the bed
little do

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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.07.2014
04:02PM EDT 
vertical line Duck down?
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Reply from leoj99
Jul.07.2014
11:07PM EDT 
vertical line What did the two friends say...LOL... when did I attack them.. I just told them not to think too much.. stop thinking..thats   .and they are furious about it..LOL
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.08.2014
11:17AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line You read too much into it.
No anger, no greed, no hatred, no delusion
Only the teachings ... for help along the way.
It isn't stop thinking. Only idiots do that.
It is cutting through to where thoughts arise and where thoughts cease
When deluded thoughts cease, ones true nature can be experienced.
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.08.2014
12:05PM EDT 
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Quote: "Duck down?"
.........

Why don't you change your frekans? You can't.Don't you? 

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Reply from ---T e
Jul.08.2014
12:08PM EDT 
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Sorry I mean frequency,

Why don't you change your frequency? You can't.Don't you?

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Reply from so_teh
Jul.08.2014
12:09PM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line My head is never right in the morning. How about yours?
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.08.2014
02:39PM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line exactly.same
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.08.2014
04:36PM EDT 
vertical line Curiouser and curiouser. "Why don't you change your frequency?"

Can you be more precise? Is this a question about the number of posts for which I am deemed responsible? Or is it a question regarding the frequencies associated with brain waves, the pineal gland and/or chakras?

I should be grateful if you would provide more information and clarify the following: 1. chronology of events; 2. confirmation of specific incidents.

Or are you mischieviously suggesting that you are picking up some kind of foreign transmissions of Govern (Control) Ment (Mind) from Sirius B? Or something similar?

At present I really have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.09.2014
04:56AM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line Are there any proverbs that you know which you can say for us to get some relax?
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
07:47AM EDT 
vertical line If my aunt had a beard she would have been my uncle.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
07:50AM EDT 
vertical line Never Forget You
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
07:58AM EDT 
vertical line The following tone is a reference tone, recorded at our operating level.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
08:47AM EDT 
vertical line One - Two
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.09.2014
11:23AM EDT 
Email Avisitor
vertical line Phil ... do you just like to hear yourself talk??
Do you have anything that will help others in their journey??
Do you have any to say that will benefit people who want to learn about Zen Buddhism??
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Reply from so_teh
Jul.09.2014
11:31AM EDT 
Email so_teh
vertical line This forum is pretty clear. Step into the world wide web of forums call it reddit or others you come to appreciate a small simple forum like zenguide. I really have no complaints about any one user here, past or present.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
11:48AM EDT 
vertical line Yeah, oh yeah, of course yeah - I'm a SubGenius hebephreniac Oxymoron speaking in slangs and oxymora - it doesn't matter what I say or who hears me say it. See?
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Reply from Avisitor
Jul.09.2014
05:20PM EDT 
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vertical line Quote: "....
But there is no road to this understanding by simply not thinking.

....
That is the purpose of zazen.. to stop your monkey mind or chattering mind...

"
.........

Zazen is to focus upon a task such as watching the breath.
If thought arise then to acknowledge and let it go. Don't suppress and don't chase thoughts.
Develop concentration. But, concentration isn't awakening.

Zazen doesn't stop your mind and it doesn't stop thinking.
When one is dealing with the cares of this world, the consciousness that sees and tastes and feels is only a small demarcation of the whole which is considered as awareness.
So, Zazen is to set up the ripe condition for ones self inquiry into awareness.
One has to cut off the small consciousness to become aware of the true nature of self.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.09.2014
07:07PM EDT 
vertical line The act of reflecting every moment as it occurs. Sometimes thinking is there, sometimes it is not.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.09.2014
08:47PM EDT 
vertical line But you don't reflect. You block. And so you miss and become blind to Zen Discordian illumination. This is exacerbated by the BIG PROBLEM you quite clearly have with what you call THE TEACHINGS, a problem that you wear like the most magnificent badge of your own subjection.
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Reply from Riverstone
Jul.10.2014
12:42AM EDT 
vertical line Quote: "But you don't reflect. You block. And so you miss and become blind to Zen Discordian illumination. This is exacerbated by the BIG PROBLEM you quite clearly have with what you call THE TEACHINGS, a problem that you wear like the most magnificent badge of your own subjection. "
.......

So viscious, just fierce! ?..
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.10.2014
06:44AM EDT 
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Quote: "If my aunt had a beard she would have been my uncle."
.........

Okay

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Reply from justin
Jul.15.2014
11:37AM EDT 
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vertical line T,
 I say argue with the Buddha because those words i posted were not mine but the Buddhas. 
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.15.2014
11:52AM EDT 
vertical line In full awareness of the transparency of perceived boundaries, and without reservation or prejudice, the Buddha discloses the following borrowed advice:

WARNING - The Internets should only be used under specific spiritual guidance.
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Reply from ---T e
Jul.17.2014
05:45AM EDT 
Email ---T e
vertical line okay, justin.
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Reply from Phil Space
Jul.17.2014
06:49AM EDT 
vertical line hmmmmmmm ... .. . hmmm . . . uhuh
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