Chang-ch'o, an educated man, once asked the Chinese Ch'an master Chih-t'sang:
-Is there paradise or hell?
-That is not correct. When I was studying under the
MY POINT OF VIEW
Visitor 1: Now, I'm very happy because after two years I can feel the top more than ever. I can see it is not much hard if everything appears as a vision.And nothing left but only the top.There is only voice left for me to solve.Special thanks to everyone and to especially those who communicate with me; I am sorry for all my unwanted posts. Thats all. Take care (and) I'll be back...)
CT: When there is a top, there is a bottom, and there is a middle. This is like you have a head, a trunk, and two feet. Right?
If so, where are your feet (bottom) and trunk (middle) when you only feel your head(top)? You already drop them somewhere. Right? If so, you are not a human being anymore. What are you now?
Visitor 2: There is no bottom, no middle and no top. To think that you start from the "bottom" then you proceed to the "middle" and finally you reach the so-called "top" is to realize that you are "back" where you "started".
Visitor 3: The mountain was your creation, so how can there be a bottom, middle or top? Nor is there anything to solve. Don't try to be anything. Continue your daily practice.
CT: Today the d.o.m. could see two great men of Zen here. The d.o.m. is just an ordinary old man who just says what he sees (in the case he was talking to some man named Enver, for example). With this he means if he himself closes his both eyes and sees not a single thing on this earth, then he will be able to say: There is no human beings, no animals, mountains, no seas, no rivers... at all, therefore, there no bottom, no midlle, and no head whatsoever. All of those are your creation. Right?
Visitor 2: Kensho is no great man of zen. Kensho sees what ordinary men see, but this he realizes as transitory, and he "himself", transitory. He has grown tired of carrying stones around his neck, around his shoulders, around his purse, his shoes, his bag,his books.So he threw them away.Now he feels free.He does not concern himself if he's free or not, as long as he can drink a cup of tea while watching the illusory sunset.
CT: After closing his both eyes for a while, seeing not a single thing on this earth, saying there was nothing on it and much less the top, middle, and bottom..., the d.o.m. now opens his eyes and can see what is right in front of him when he looks at it, such as a man as-he-is, a woman as-she-is, a dog as-he-is, a tree as-it-is... The man, the woman, and the dog, each of them has a head, a body, and legs. The tree has its top, trunk, and root. The man, the woman, and the dog can move from this place to another one and change from time to time. The tree can not move itself in that way but it can change its size and shape and color. To the dom, all of those are as the facts of life and not as something illusory.
And thanks to those who created the words: man, woman, dog, tree, head, trunk, legs, top, middle, bottom... as a means of communication. If there was none of them, the dom could not talk to anyone about anything on this board.
Visitor 4: Hi, you sound like a robot, SIR. What a interesting subject indeed yet a robot still needs something else to work, right?
CT: Yes. You're right this time. If there is no word, he will use a stick. If there is no stick, he will use a fist or a foot. If there is no fist or foot, he will use teeth. If there is no teeth, he will use a bald head. If there is no bald head, he will use body with five senses. If there is no body with five senses, he will use consciousness. If there is no consciousness, he will use mind. If there is no mind, he will use wisdom. If there is no wisdom, he will use love. If there is no love, he will use hate and anger and suffering... and the rest of it!
Visitor 4: 1) "If there is no consciousness, he will use mind." 2) "If there is no mind, he will use wisdom." 3) "If there is no wisdom, he will use love." 4) "If there is no love, he will use hate, anger, suffering and the rest of it!" Sound like going around a circle, SIR. Would you mind to clarify & explain a little here of the above 4 points please? Thank you!
CT: Actually you do not need any explanation at all, because explanation is just words or concepts and, if you go by those, you will not catch reality. What you need to do is just observe "what" and "how" people have been talking to each other around here, you will see what the dom meant. Otherwise, if you observe yourself carefully, you will also see what you called "a circle", either.
Visitor 2: "Direct pointing at the soul of man..." Zen must be seized with no gloves on....
CT: The d.o.m. is just an ordinary man who knows neither what "the soul of man" is nor seeks nor seizes it with gloves or without gloves...at all. He just observes things as-they-are in front of or around him, understands them and leaves them there. That's all.
Visitor 4: Thanks, d.o.m., for this input of yours. I would like to say the same.
Visitor 2: That's exactly what I meant. Not seizing anything and just being aware, you have in fact seized it with - no gloves on!!! -:].
CT: Not "seized", just "seen" to the d.o.m.
The moon that shines does not take blowing winds as obstruction. The sky that is immensely blue does not take floating clouds as hindrance.
Visitor 2: The moon reflects upon the still pond. A breeze passes by, and the moon is gone.
CT: The moon beams at noon. The sun shines at midnight.
Visitor 2: The stars are fast fleeting. The clouds twinkle like fireflies.
CT: What is fleeting is fleeting. What is twinkling is twinkling. What is beaming is beaming. What is shining is shining.
Visitor 2: What is, IS. Is not this beautiful?
CT: Each and every being or thing as-they-are or AS-IT-IS. Life is beautiful and lovely. Death is also beautiful and lovely.
Visitors & CT 09/09/03
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