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  Posted on Aug.08.2009 @ 10:58PM EDT by chontri
What, monks, is the world? The eye and shapes, the ear and sounds,
the nose and smells, the tongue and tastes, the body and tactile objects,
the mind and mental objects - these... continue...

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A SIMPLE QUESTION
Great Men & Women of Zen,

Yesterday morning, some gentleman visited the d.o.m. with his "simple question" as folllows:

"I am sick, the dharma and practice are my medicines.
I suffer because of my ignorance, anger and attachments.
I can become well through concentration, wisdom and ethics.
The lack of illness is in the form liberation.
But can I achieve health, which involves true compassion to all.
How is one to be compassionate?"

Any of you have super-wisdom and super-kindness, please give him an answer.

Thanks!

DeZachster:
To be compassionate to all, then one must feel compassion. It is an attitude or stance of the mind selfless but wanting to help... such as the opposite might be... a stance that might promote suffering would be to have a self centered 'me me me' stance. From such a stance, helping a beggar does not really help 'me' unless 'me' thinks 'me' is so nice for helping and so I think I am compassionate.
Conversely, if one see's what 'me' is up to and decides that this stance is not so good...or perhaps superceeds it by means of a broader, non-ego perspective, then the slate is wiped clean and blank...and a new structure of attitude or stance can be adopted. If this stance is one of being compassionate towards beings, than it is a healthy structure to maintain the non-ego state. The attitude helps the non-ego and vice versa.

Then, when one sees the beggar, he can give him money or not, but he will have compassion for him either way.

Zorba:
I see by DOM's words here on this forum that he had no answers for this man. But I would think that his question is good enough as it is.
Keith

DeZachster:
Oh, I see... nothing super

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Keith You're definitely correct. The gentleman who put the question is somewhat like other people. When the d.o.m. suggested him go to the north for the answer, he went to the south. When the d.o.m. suggested him go the south for the answer, he went to the north. Therefore, the d.o.m. couldn't do anything more than stopped answering. Let him find it himself.

cmontana:
How is one to be compassionate?
When people are hungry, offer them food; when people are thirsty, offer them water; when people are suffering, comfort them; when people are happy, be happy with them. Most of all, how are things at home?

Don't think about it, just do it!

Woodsman:
Understanding compassion is the beginning of liberation from suffering. We may hold out hope in something as narrow as our own self gratification, yet in this way we will not relieve much suffering. Our own suffering is a turning away from life and a reflection of our belief in limitations. This is socially reinforced. Trying to get away from all problems and glossing over the "inevitable" end, we disown our bodies and live in a shell called "reality" which houses our thoughts, a shell that has been created by language and feelings that words have weight like gold. But like gold in the fire, we can come to see certain qualities that transform into more than just one period of posession of a reflected value. Posessions are easy to find, obtained by force, and anyone can do that. What you and I are wanting to do is something which goes beyond current mainstream thought presented by popular opinion. So there is a certain challenge invested here. Even with the dom's invitation to look at one's self value.

lehish:
>Understanding compassion is the beginning of liberation from suffering.<

no

cmontana:
lehish says No.
Without thinking, without dead words, what is compassion then?

Lynn:
Hello Dom, so why didn't the Dom just tell the gentleman to go North knowing he'd go South?

oops..."suggest"... :)

fatnhappy:
((((((((((((((((((((((to all)))))))))))))))))) e-hug:>good night love ya.with sandles on head.fat and tired.

coleco:
Compassion is true love.
Acting without a hint of selfishness.

Sympathy for a homeless man I think is very easy. If you give to the poor, if you feel good about, that's selfish.

A Tibetan monk was asked what he feared most while being tortured by the Chinese, he answered, "That I would lose compassion for my captors"

You must give, just give, that's compassion.

Lionel:
When there is question there should be an answer within cause & effect system, right? So perhaps we can say if there is arising there is also following with ceasing spontaneously. Perhaps it is the karmic force as driving momentum. When there is 'one' to be or being... it is already being trapped into a prison as 'self' or biased 'I' or ego or me or anything the world name & call it. Once this arising bubble is established, then one begins to explore with thought & thoughts etc... (unless it is plant stone etc) thus creation of its own illusion or its own world. Then it is getting further & further away from its own nature of truthfulness... It is totally forgetting or covering up its own home & begin to look for another home such as how to be compassionate to others of which there are its very own illusion too... So Buddhism talking about compassion & wisdom. What is it...? Someone raised this posting so it is quite interesting indeed. This is just a thought... friends! I am listening...

Stephen:

Some say compassion must be action, others say compassion must be the intent. The question is how and why the compassion arises from the liberation. Why does the Bodhisattvas give up Nirvana and/or rebirth? MU

Lionel:
Hi Steve,
Accordingly & if it is proper to mention here, there was a saying like this, "Buddhha means everything is equal, all & same." There is no more subjective & objective. The job has completely done. What need to be done is done. There is such a call like 'living Buddha' & 'Buddha that at Nirvana'. Perhaps one is oneness or wholeness & the other one is with mind & body just like you me & him. As for Bodhisattvas, it is Buddha with intent still. As long as there is an intent of thought as one vows in one's samsara life, it is still imprinted in one's subtle mind which is abiding a mission to be completed yet. In other words, there is still subjective & objective remaining as functioning pulse no matter how substle it is or may be. This is yet another thought, Steve! Thanks!

BNibbler:
"I am sick, the dharma and practice are my medicines. I suffer because of my ignorance, anger and attachments. I can become well through concentration, wisdom and ethics. The lack of illness is in the form liberation. But can I achieve health, which involves true compassion to all. How is one to be compassionate?"

Hmmm... Clearly this is a deluded person beliving himself to be sick and ignorant. Beliving he has to go or do something to become compassionate. Well, the real question for me is this. This guy posting this question, is he compassionate or not? If he is striving to "gain" compassion because he wants to feel better...
Hmmm...Well, then he is on his path towards some invisible goal called compassion, not knowing what it really is. It reminds me of an episode of south Park. Cartman want to travel to Isla Bonita to celebrate Kyles bithday, but Kyle has not invited him because he is always mean to him. So Cartman endevaours on this Journey to be nice. First he makes his hair and clothes look nice, but get Kyles standard reply in this episode "Thats not beeing nice Cartman". So Cartman goes trough some lenght to be nice to Kyle, trying to fake that the handicapped kid badmouthed Kyles mother and Cartman stands up for him (Kyle: Beating up a handicaped kid is not beeing nice either Cartman) Well, in the end, Carman gives up (suure:-)), not "trying to be nice" to Kyle. Telling Kyle it is okay, he`d like to go to Isla Bonit offcourse, but he understands why Kyle dont want him to go, and besides he`d allready invited Butters, so it would not be kind to let Butters down either. He just hopes this will not ruin theire friendship, and that they could still hang out. The moral would have been nice here, if not Kyle had been so moved by Cartmans "true nicness", and said that if Butters could not come along for any reason, then Cartman could come afterall. (Cartman speaking devilishly to himself: Sweeeet...) Pretty funny episode, Cartman convincing Butters that the world is destroyed by a meteore, and he`d have to hide in a bomb shelter underground, protected from a surface polluted by radiation and flesh eating cannibals.
Anyway, compassion strives out of oure motives, thats why I say we never can "be nice" out of some ego motive. Conssiously striving towards compassion, I dont know. How compassionate do one want to be? Like Jesus, loving all people around oneself regardless? Or is it enough to just be able to love the people allready in oure lifes, and leave out the unlovable/bad influence? I guess my 5cent is that, if one knows one is ignorant, then one is ignorant no more. And If one knows onself to be uncompassionate, duude, wheres my car?

cmontana:
So many words... and not one that could save a cat from the knife :(
Jijang Bosal, Jijang Bosal, Jijang Bosal...

shayne:
no answer. none.

The d.o.m.:
From Lynn:
Hello Dom, so why didn't the Dom just tell the gentleman to go North knowing he'd go South?

Mr. Keith or Lynn, It would be much better if you go ahead and give your own answer to his 'simple question'.

Doreen:
"How is one to be compassionate?"
Any of you have super-wisdom and super-kindness, please give him an answer."

I don't have super-wisdom or super-kindness, and I am limited because words are a poor means to communicate (but it's all I have here), but becoming aware of the love within us all would be a good beginning to compassion.

The d.o.m.:
Ms. Doreen,
when watching with awareness without choices, and/or listening with heedfulness without discrimination, the heart is on its way.

Doreen:
Thank you d.o.m. for your response (funny, those are my intials :-)

student:
when hungry, eat...... when tired, sleep.. what there to seek?

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Student,
When you're hungry but you do not have food in hand, you then got to look for something you can eat. When you got something eatable in hand, then just eat. While eating, just eat without thinking of some kind of food more delicious...or something else.

When you're tired and there is no place around to lay your back on and sleep, you then got to look for some spot that you can lay your back on and sleep. When you already got some spot like that, just lay your back on and sleep well without thinking of a more comfortable mattress or dreaming of something like this: if there were some beautiful girl be here and sleep with me...or something else.

This sounds plain and simple but not many could do.

From Doreen:
Thank you d.o.m. for your response (funny, those are my intials :-)

The d.o.m.:
Ms. Doreen,
When the d.o.m. read your "funny initials" - as you called them - he did not think they were funny at all. They were something you started and he thought he might put some rustic words after yours to see if those words might be read and understood or not.

Lynn:
DOM, answers do not come from you? answers are our own? yet, what is my own, mine, I feel to apologize for and what is not mine, not my own, I feel to apologize for. What is mine can only be a lack of understanding? What is not mine can only be a lack of understanding?

Doreen:
When the d.o.m. read your "funny initials" - as you called them - he did not think they were funny at all. They were something you started and he thought he might put some rustic words after yours to see if his might be read and understood or not.

Good Morning d.o.m.,
Please excuse my poor choice of words. When I said that it was funny - I was using that word instead of odd or strange, not funny, "ha ha". DOM are the intials of my name, as well as for deluded old man. Just a coincidence - that's all. I meant no disrespect.

And I appreciate and understand the rustic words the d.o.m. gave me.
I just don't always act with full awareness. Obviously! :-)

Blessings,
Doreen

The d.o.m.:
Ms. or Mr. Lynn (the d.o.m. is not sure about this) When the d.o.m. posted the gentleman's "simple question" in this forum, it meant that the d.o.m.'s answers to the question did not satisfy the gentleman. Therefore, with posting the question on this board, the d.o.m. has hoped that maybe some other could give an answer that might help him out. He needs the answer, not the d.o.m. So, if any of you would like to help him, just directly give your answer to his question, and he would appreciate that very much. The gentleman is often around here.

You do not need to feel to apologize, at all because you did not say anything wrong. The d.o.m. has not implied that you or anyone else lacking or not of understanding. So, please do not make it a problem for yourself and others.

From Doreen
"DOM are the intials of my name, as well as for deluded old man. Just a coincidence - that's all."

The d.o.m.:
Ms. Doreen,
The d.o.m. did not know "DOM" are your name's initials. He thought it was only his. Sorry for that! However, watch out, some day he might do something wrong, do not let yourself get caught and led to the court instead of him! Ha! Ha!

Doreen:
Ah - another good reason to become fully aware! :-)

:The d.o.m.
Ms. Doreen,
You might want to sit there to catch reasons to be fully aware, but the d.o.m. now would like to take a walk and see how grasses and plants and trees grow along the road.

Lynn:
D.o.m., "Ms." if "Ms." means woman, Lynn is my first name.

Zorba:
I wonder why so many men and women come knocking on DOM's door? I bet he gets tired of saying the same things over and over!

From Lynn: D.o.m., "Ms." if "Ms." means woman, Lynn is my first name.

Ms. or Mr. Lynn,
The d.o.m. already knows that your name is Lynn, "Ms." is for a woman if she is not married or, in the case, the speaker is not sure about if she is married or not, Mr. is for a man.

So far, you have not told that you are a Ms. or a Mr., in other words, a woman or a man. That's why the d.o.m. put your name and the prefixes in the way as it shows above.

From Zorba:
I wonder why so many men and women come knocking on DOM's door? I bet he gets tired of saying the same things over and over!

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Keith,
You are correct again and the d.o.m. also wonders if you are one of them. It seems that you are, and you have done the same thing. Have you had anything other than what you have said to speak to the d.o.m.?

Doreen:
d.o.m - enjoy your walk.

zorba - enjoy your peace

my boxes await me.

Lynn:

D.o.m. no inquiry, a statement? but if so, why the statement if no inquiry? of course a woman or a man, what else would I be? Lynn is just fine, thank you.

Zorba:
Well, I would say thank you. But I think I've said that before. The simple things that you have helped me find for myself are really enough for this mans lifetime. I guess I just like to hear your voice from time to time. Must not be enlightened yet. Maybe even a little attached to the DOM. Its hard to know how one is to look at relationships. But I like them.

From Doreen
d.o.m - enjoy your walk.

my boxes await me.

The d.o.m.:
Ms. Doreen,
Along the road, the d.o.m. could see things really look like they are. Grasses are green as they are; plants are blooming as they are; Trees are waving in the winds as they are. The sky is blue as it is, the clouds are white as they are...<.br>

Now, the d.o.m. comes back and sees you in your boxes as you say here... Ha! Ha!

The d.o.m.:
Ms. Lynn,
When the d.o.m. has not known something clearly, he would enquire because he does not want to mess things up.

Just take easy and do not make it a problem.

From the d.o.m.
>Along the road, the d.o.m. could see things really look like they are. Grasses are green as they are; plants are blooming as they are; Trees are waving in the winds as they are. The sky is blue as it is, the clouds are white as they are...<

lehish:
haha

From the d.o.m.
>You might want to sit there to catch reasons to be fully aware, but the d.o.m. now would like to take a walk and see how grasses and plants and trees grow along the road.<

lehish:
maybe not think "how"?

Doreen:
I filled my boxes, and walked along the lake like I have for over ten years.

When I first saw the lake, it was the first time I ever saw ice fishing houses that were on it, and I thought it was a snow-covered field. My children and grandchildren swam and played in the lake in the summer, and my reckless sons told me to my horror of walking across the lake in the winter and hearing the ice crack with each step. I would walk my dog around the lake; in the beginning with her pulling so hard on her leash that she sounded like she had some respitory problem - in her later years she had a hard time keeping up with me. That was okay - I didn't need to rush and I enjoyed the slower walks around the lake better.

Astro the wonderdog is buried in my backyard now. But the lake was alive with the boats and other children during my walk yesterday.

I have more boxes to fill with things; maybe I'll get in another couple of walks around the lake, when I am done with what I need to do to move on.

From the d.o.m.
"Along the road, the d.o.m. could see things really look like they are. Grasses are green as they are; plants are blooming as they are; Trees are waving in the winds as they are. The sky is blue as it is, the clouds are white as they are"...

Zorba:
I see the DOM enjoys things as they are. But are there no people on this road? If the Dom came upon a man like Keith who is honest as he is. would you turn your back and walk away? You zen masters do fine with plants, clouds, and blue sky. That's easy!

You think this man with attachment must figure it out himself. I think it O.K. and as things are. But I'm deluded!

Zorba:
Its a wise woman who knows what it takes to move on! Sometimes it is easy to cling to the past. Or to people who have helped. We all tend to regress at times. Thanks! Keith

Doreen:
Break time! Boxing, cleaning; amazing how much 'stuff' you acquire - how little you really use. Talk about charity - Goodwill is getting alot of stuff...

Thanks for the kind words Keith - but I don't think I'm wise at all. If I was wise, I wouldn't have acquired all this shit to begin with - the more you get, the more you have to get rid of! True Zen practice! :-)

Actually, it wasn't just me - I had many packrats in this house. On the other hand, it is my fault - I aquired them! :-)

From the d.o.m.
>Along the road, the d.o.m. could see things really look like they are. Grasses are green as they are; plants are blooming as they are; Trees are waving in the winds as they are. The sky is blue as it is, the clouds are white as they are"...<

lehish:
"...< haha >

The d.o.m.:
Ewl!

lehish:
"maybe not think "how"?>

The d.o.m.:
Answer the question yourself.

From Doreen:
"...If I was wise, I wouldn't have acquired all this shit to begin with - the more you get, the more you have to get rid of! True Zen practice! :-)"

The d.o.m.:
Don't worry much about it, Ms. Doreen. Your children and grandchildren will take a good care all of what you have in your house.

Or if you want to get rid all of them, it will be very easy, you just practice some easy words such as, "O.K. you can take it away with you," to your children or friends or neighbors... The d.o.m. is very sure your house will be empty really quick! :-) This was one of his experiences of this kind of practice!

From Keith:
"I see the DOM enjoys things as they are. But are there no people on this road? If the Dom came upon a man like Keith who is honest as he is. would you turn your back and walk away? You zen masters do fine with plants, clouds, and blue sky. That's easy!"

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Keith,
When walking along the road, what the d.o.m. could see were grasses, plants, trees, winds, sky, clouds, etc...but no man at all, especially, the man named Keith. He only sees the word 'Keith' typed on this board and he guesses it should be a name of some guy. That's all. The d.o.m. got a mouth, so when he talks he talks when he shut up he shut up. He also got two legs, so when he walks forwards he walks forwards and when he walks away he walks away. No problem with him.

lehish:
haha...did ask of an answer d.o.m.?

Zorba:
How does a man look like he really is? Feet and hands moving, as head bobbs up and down. big smile on his face. Or not.
Sometimes I see DOM and I say "What zen can this man give me" Or Maybe he has some kind words to make my day happier! Such foolishness to look at others this way. You would think By now I'd know better! Its the same reason I keep coming back to this forum. Looking for some friendship, or some great words to keep me on the spiritual path. I should just stick to what I know. Keep it simple stupid! I was a Zen master before I ever even heard of such thing!

Woodsman:
Ya lost me Zorbs.

Oop! Back to the silent treatment. Continue fella.

fatnhappy:
sooooooo how is one to be compasionate ? seems our spirits get lost in the moment.:) maybe letting go of feelings of wanting and replacing them with feelings of caring ? just a young thought.be now here , not then when if.

zbishak:
Hello fatnhappy!
Be kind to yourself.

lehish:
"haha...did ask of an answer d.o.m.?"

The d.o.m.:
Again, answer it yourself.

From Zorba
"How does a man look like he really is? Feet and hands moving, as head bobbs up and down. big smile on his face. Or not. Sometimes I see DOM and I say "What zen can this man give me" Or Maybe he has some kind words to make my day happier! Such foolishness to look at others this way. You would think By now I'd know better! Its the same reason I keep coming back to this forum. Looking for some friendship, or some great words to keep me on the spiritual path. I should just stick to what I know. Keep it simple stupid! I was a Zen master before I ever even heard of such thing!"

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Keith,
If you want to have an answer that really satisfies you, you got to find it yourself. No one can do it for you. What you got from anyone else means from outside and this includes what you think, too. That which comes from outside is just blinking or flickering for a while. However, if right here you start a debate on what is 'outside' and what is 'inside', you immediately get lost and miss the point.

You are not correct this time.
The d.o.m. has nothing called 'zen' to give anyone including you. He is not a zen mater either as you think. He is just a man like any man else on this earth. He got a head with eyes, ears, noses, mouth..., then a neck that connects the head to the trunk that's composed of several parts such as lungs, heart, kidneys, intestines..., then two arms and two legs that connects to the trunk... And he thinks you also have them, too. He just uses what he got. Nothing special.

Take care,

from the d.o.m.
Or if you want to get rid all of them, it will be very easy, you just practice some easy words such as, "O.K. you can take it away with you," to your children or friends or neighbors... The d.o.m. is very sure your house will be empty really quick! :-)

Doreen:
True! As my sons left with their families, they took whatever furnature and other things that they needed to start their own homes. That cleared out alot of excess kitchenware, my basement and a couple of bedrooms. And there is still alot more that I am giving away to charity...it really amaizes me how much stuff there is left! This is really eye opening...when will my house be empty? When will I be empty?
No need to answer - because the answer comes from the emptyness.

Back to packing & cleaning - only a few days left of this phase...

shayne:
i dont know. but i feel doms question is to be directed at ourselves. in other words....you are the one hes pointing to if you reply cause then this still signifies doubt as a result of your ego and delusions. thanks d.o.m.

lehish:
"doubt"?

Zorba:
I did find my own answer. Most satisfied. See you around some time.
Keith,
Zorba:
Lost and silent. Thats a first!:-)

lehish:
was an answer to find zorba?

"Thats"?

lehish:

"didn't happen asking for an answer d.o.m."

The d.o.m.:
So, you already drop your question marsk. That's good.

From Doreen,
"True! As my sons left with their families, they took whatever furnature and other things that they needed to start their own homes. That cleared out alot of excess kitchenware, my basement and a couple of bedrooms. And there is still alot more that I am giving away to charity...it really amazes me how much stuff there is left! This is really eye opening...when will my house be empty? When will I be empty? No need to answer - because the answer comes from the emptyness.

The d.o.m.:
Mr. Doreen,
You were correct when you said, 'No need to answer'. The answer is already there. One does not need to find the answer, he just needs to give away what he has acquired. The answer is the 'emptyness' itself - if you'd like to call so - and it does not come from the emptyness because the emptyness neither comes nor goes. It's right there from beginninglessness. However, it has been occupied by many unnecessary things as you said. The house is useful because it's empty.

To practice is like to empty one's house by giving away what he has acquired.

lehish: > :) wasn't question to drop

The d.o.m.:
From lehish
'maybe not think "how"?'

"doubt"?

lehish:
maybe not label as though questions, d.o.m.

The d.o.m.:
They're already labelled.

lej-his:
'avacado'

The d.o.m.:
Bo di Tam.

lehish:
maybe d.o.m. thinks labels important
since removed and reposted the post "avacado" responded, when didn't use name d.o.m

The d.o.m.:
No. It's just like first you labelled it, then you dropped labelling.

The d.o.m.:
To practice is like to empty one's house by giving away what he has acquired.

Doreen:
Yes! It feels good to be free of things - once I finally, painfully decide to let them go. Then it as if mountains fall off my back. And it is funny the things that I have held onto for so long, that when I look at them with fresh eyes, I don't know why it ever had meaning to me.

Thanks for your words. I think the computer will be packed up today, so I will not be back for a week or so...take care! Blessings, Doreen

Visitors & CT 05/26/04


 



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