When Yang-shan Hui-chi (807-883), as a young monk, paid a visit to the Ch'an master Hsing-k'ung, there was a monk who asked Hsing-k'ung:
-What is the meaning of the Patriarch's coming from the West?
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"Quote: ""drinking too much makes things crazy" says the six year old, am I his grandmother too?" (Lynnoh) 01/04/2008. .........
That old man was a drunkard, but your grandson and you are alcoholics."
why say this Chontri?
You are, aren't you? " .........
I can't answer that
Why not? If you are, just say: "Yes, I am. What you said is correct."
If you are not, just say: No. I am not. What you said is wrong."
You couldn't say anything as you told, because you got stuck at the words and thinking too much about them.
If the comment is correct, it cannot not add anything to you or subtract anything from you at all.
If it is wrong, it cannot add anything to you or subtract anything from you at all.
You are still what you are or who you are. You are the Intact Yourself. Why bothered too much by the words.
This is the meaning mentioned in the topic, "A Devil's Advocate."
Quote: "but..... once upon a time I would have offered you this definition of myself... and it was true... now I cannot offer it to you... and it is true... which one is not true? both?...what would one consider to be wrong... but to offer any definition of...it is wrong..because I have no definitions.. and is wrong because I have defintions. some definitons are meant to last...like "alcoholic" and so...if I offer one up to you that fits this category..it may cause more harm than good... I'd rather be considered a lier..and so I now offer that definition to you." (from Lynn, 01/05/2008)
ChonTri has been a drunkard for a long time now, and became a forgetful old man since. Therefore, what you said in the past, he can't remember at all, as you told him that you gave some definition once upon a time. If so, it was just a definition you made up with words and not the real thing. If you could see the Real Thing, then you would not get stuck at his words, fell in embarrassment and hurt as you just did above. If you thoroughly understood this, you could help yourself and your grandson as well.
What he just told you was what he could see of you and not a definition.
You don't have to offer him any definition at all because he will make it up when he needs, but he prefers to tell what he can see right in front of him than to make up a definition.
In some sense, every of us is of some kind of drunkard or alcoholic. For example, it is like Mr Stephen when he tried to give some definitions of "Virtue" and how to show it to people.
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